History DarkIsNotEvil / TabletopGames

26th Oct '16 2:56:37 PM VampireBuddha
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[[AC: [=RPGs=] ]]



* In ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'' the Black Templars and Dark Angels Space Marine Chapters are... no ''more'' evil than their peers, although the Dark Angels are one of the shadier Chapters of Space Marines, more concerned with personal redemption than serving the Imperium itself. Though, the Dark Eldar are definitely a lot worse than the Craftworld Eldar.
** The Black Templars are [[KnightTemplar even more fanatical]] than usual and the Dark Angels...[[MysteriousPast well]]. It's also not fair to label all the SpaceMarine Chapters as "evil" - the Ultramarines and the Imperial Fists are examples of a couple of the more genuinely heroic chapters. The Raven Guard are a better example of DarkIsNotEvil.
** The Soul Drinkers are a dead-straight example: their name sounds pretty nasty by itself, their motto is "Cold and fast", and as a pleasant bonus the vast majority of them are mutated in some way, with their Chapter Master having the legs of a giant spider. They're the closest 40K gets to NeutralGood, fighting both the destructive madness of Chaos and the tyranny of the Imperium.
** Then there's the Space Wolves, who all look like [[NinjaZombiePirateRobot large, wolf-fanged, viking Space Marines]], who are all pretty damn pissed that the administratum decided to wipe out the remaining survivors on a planet they had just saved. Needless to say, they are probably the least tolerating towards the administratum's actions of all the chapters still in the Imperium.
** The Salamanders have jet-black skin and glowing red eyes, but are actually concerned with protecting innocent people instead of just slaughtering the bad guys (and whoever gets in the way).
** In the novel ''Literature/{{Eisenhorn}}'', the eponymous Inquisitor is surprised that a Librarian of the Deathwatch Chapter is a very erudite, even ''nice'', guy, despite being a veteran xeno-fighter with Terminator honors.
** In ''Literature/BrothersOfTheSnake'', the distinction can be drawn between two of the senior marines. On one hand: Librarian Petrok, a walking CMOA and superhuman killing machine whose attitude towards those around him, particularly Priad, could nevertheless be described as 'chummy'. He is given to occasional whimsy, and likes to "remind himself that he has a soul". On the flipside of this, there's Hero-Captain Phobor, a more conventional Astartes in that he's a humorless, unrelenting psychopath who is 100% devoted to warfare and nothing else, and is contemptuous of weakness to the point of sentencing the officer corps of an Imperial Guard regiment to penal legions for failing to win a battle of attrition.
** The ones in black armor and face-concealing skull-painted helms? Those are SpaceMarine [[BadassPreacher Chaplains]], whose job it is to maintain their brother's faith through exemplary leadership.
** There's also the enigmatic Legion of the Damned, a Space Marine chapter notable for their black armor decorated with flames, skulls and bones. [[BigDamnHeroes They jump into battles to help the Imperium's forces in times of great need, curb-stomp the enemy forces, and then leave as quickly as they turn up]]. It is believed that they're the survivors from the long-lost Fire Hawks chapter, which was lost to the Warp a long time ago.
** Speaking of bone, the harlequin death jesters wear black, a skull mask, and bone-studded armor, and fight with a minigun shooting envenomed "shuriken". The harlequin are sworn foes of the Ruinous powers and will occasionally appear seemingly out of nowhere to aid those fighting Chaos.
** While they are hardly particularly good (to other races, they tend to do well enough by their own) the Black Guardians of Ulthwe are veteran foes of chaos and were allied with the Imperium during the latest Black Crusade.



* The Golgari Swarm in the ''TabletopGame/MagicTheGathering'' setting of Ravnica are a cult of elf and human necromancers who use zombies as labor... but they're also an indispensable part of Ravnica's society, providing food and waste disposal services. A lot of them are indeed black-hearted knaves who sacrifice unwilling people to raise them as undead, but one of the heroes of the tie-in novels is the leader of the Golgari, who's working to reform them after the death of his evil sister.
** What about Black? Its iconic creatures are zombies, vampires, and demons. But they aren't defined as strictly evil, only greedy or ambitious. In theory anyway. In practice it's also heavily associated with sadism, desecration and murder.
** However, Kamigawa's main protagonist, [[AntiHero Toshiro Umezawa]], is black, while its main antagonist (among mortals, at least), Konda, [[LightIsNotGood is white]].
** Mark Rosewater discusses Black's ideology at length [[http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr109 here]].
** The vampire planeswalker Sorin Markov is another black AntiHero. He's scheming, vicious and paranoid...but at the same time, he managed to work together with two other planeswalkers to seal the Eldrazi in their [[SealedEvilInACan can]].
*** In fact, given that he is singularly responsible for nothing less than the [[spoiler: '''creation of at least one virtuous god-figure''',]] purely to defend the humans of his home plane, Sorin is capable of remarkable compassion and foresight (although in this set, he is part-white, unlike before, though this might be due to his use of plains magic, as mana cost often isn't entirely accurate to the character's personality).
** To a lesser extent, gargoyles. Although they are technically White, their appearance is [[http://www.abugames.com/images/products/5thedition/abbeygargoyles.jpg quite]] [[http://magic.tcgplayer.com/images/article/gargoyle.jpg demonic]]
** ''Magic'' has gone back and forth on this when it comes to Black. It didn't help that the ultimate BigBad of the setting for the first several years, the Clockwork Hell of Phyrexia, was mono-Black. Obviously, the team recognized their DarkIsEvil problem of the past, because the New Phyrexia is five-color.
** Avacyn from the Innistrad Pack. Seriously, [[http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/arcana/864_unhbhpaqaq.jpg look at her]]! Would you guess a gothic woman with deathly pale skin and black leather would be the guardian angel of mankind? (Of her plane, of course. She can't planeswalk)
*** The PAX video heavily hints that her dark look was acquired due to her stay in the Helvault with the demons. If that's the case, this definitely this trope, as the demonic influence had no effect on her morality.
** Chainer is another Black aligned protagonist (before being corrupted, anyway), as is the Sapling of Colfenor, Teysa, and, as of Innistrad, [[spoiler: Liliana Vess]] (who was just an anti-heroine in her previous appearances anyways).
** Very prevalent in the Theros Block, in which the mono-Black god, [[EverybodyHatesHades Erebos]], is one of the most reasonable and kind (albeit not without his moments of anger and pettiness), as are the Green/Black Pharika and White/Black Athreos; the Green/Blue god Kruphix is definitely the most benevolent of all of the settings deities, and he appears solely as a LivingShadow.
** Though the Tarkir setting plays DarkIsEvil up with the most evil of the clans being the Black-centered Sultai, it also features prominently benevolent aspects to Black. The Abzan are part-Black and definitely one of the most positively portrayed clans, with their mono-Black cards being unambiguously benevolent as they portray loyal [[OurOrcsAreDifferent orcs]] and protective ancestor spirits. Meanwhile, [[spoiler:in the new timeline created by the setting's time traveling shenanigans, it's eventually revealed that Kolaghan, the Black/Red dragon, is originally most benevolent of the bunch, being the only of the five brood leaders to not enslave the clan they shared their lands with, instead inviting the Mardu to keep up with her in her travels. Later averted into straight DarkIsEvil after 1, 280 years in which the clan becomes [[TearJerker a horde of murderous cannibals under Kolaghan's influence]].]]
** The Aetherborn of Kaladesh are an interesting race in that they represent black's elements of hedonism rather than its cruelty. Each one is born knowing exactly how long it's going to live (four years at most, although some can [[VampiricDraining steal more from others]]), and that acute sense of mortality motivates them to make the most of their short time. While some are more sinister, most love nothing more than a good party and tend to be excellent hosts thanks to their empathic abilities.



* The ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}}'' world has a few examples, notably the followers of Mohr, god of death. His paladins dress in armour carved from obsidian, but are as heroic as anyone in [[BlackAndGreyMorality this]] [[CrapsackWorld setting]]. Oh, and they really hate the undead.
** Ditto for the wizards of the Amethyst College: in spite of their dark robes and nasty-looking scythes of office, their aim, just like the other Colleges of Magic, is to serve and protect the Empire.
** The Empire itself certainly qualifies, as it follows a dark Germanic/Gothic theme in its architecture, units and art, but is depicted as a much fairer place for the ordinary person to live than [[TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}} the Imperium of Man]] and a truly noble force in the world, [[GoodIsNotNice though still brutal]] to its [[ProudWarriorRaceGuy extremely]] [[TheUndead horrid]] [[ReligionOfEvil enemies]].
** Speaking of ''Warhammer'', the undead themselves sometimes qualify for this trope themselves. Blatantly obvious are the Tomb Kings, who for the most part just want to be left alone and be left to rest. The Vampire Counts, on the other hand, can range between anything from the occasional AntiVillain to the far more common rogue, mainly because they are a far more varied bunch than the Tomb Kings.
*** A ''TabletopGame/WarhammerFantasyRoleplay'' supplement has a short story about a scholar from the Empire who traveled to distant Khemri, braving the burning sands and the restless dead to explore the ancient city of Bel Aliad. He was caught when his guide foolishly decided to do a bit of tomb robbing, and soon a squad of skeletal soldiers escorted them both to an ancient throneroom, where they met the mummified Tomb Prince who ruled the city and a Liche Priest who spoke fluent Reikspiel. The prince, through the priest, asked why the scholar had traveled so far to steal his possessions, and the scholar explained that he wasn't here for treasure - his wife had been poisoned by a rival, and he hoped that this legendary city of healing might offer a cure. When this was translated back to the mummy, the prince sat in silence for a moment, then gestured at the guards, who promptly cut of the thieving guide's head. Then the prince smiled, spoke with the priest again, and left with his retinue. The priest gave the scholar a message: "My lord commands me to tell you that he, too, loved once. He too would've gone to the ends of the world to save his love. I am to show you the wisdom you seek." And thus the scholar was brought to a secret chamber and allowed to return home with the knowledge to save his wife.
** While we're on the subject of the undead, we have Abhorash, the first Blood Dragon. See, he was a pretty decent guy and never actually wanted to become a vampire but Neferata turned him into one against his will. His initial attempt to resist his HorrorHunger ended in disaster when he murdered a lot of people in a blood frenzy, and afterwards he was ''really'' sorry about it, so much he developed a policy of never drinking the blood of innocent people, only [[BloodKnight worthy challenges]] and [[PayEvilUntoEvil people who deserved it]].
* ''[[http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Ally_of_Justice The Ally of Justice]]'' set of cards from the ''TabletopGame/YuGiOh'' card game are DARK attribute. Also worth noting, ''[[LightIsNotGood they hate light with every fiber of their being]]''. (Ironically, in the anime, these cards are used by the [[DeceptivelyHumanRobots Diablo army]] unleashed by Placido, whose intentions [[CrushKillDestroy are not good at all.]])
** They were created to fight the [[http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Worms Worms]], which are [[StarfishAlien horrendous]], [[ReptilesAreAbhorrent reptillian]], LightIsNotGood [[EldritchAbomination Eldritch Abominations]].
** There are also the Dark World Fiends, which are an odd case. They were villains in the anime, where they were clearly evil, but the flavor text of [[http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Zure%2C_Knight_of_Dark_World Zure, Knight of Dark World]] and [[http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Renge,_Gatekeeper_of_Dark_World Renge, Gatekeeper of Darkworld]] portrays them as renown heroes, while the ''Master Guide 2'' support book claims that they aren't evil at all. Obviously this was a case of AdaptationalVillainy on the anime's part.
** The reason the Ghostrick entered the Yu-Gi-Oh fray was because fewer people believed in them and they were lonely, and they seem to be more interested in scaring people than fighting. Their tactics of bypassing their opponent's monsters using their Field Spell supports this.
** The Inzektors are based on ''Franchise/KamenRider'', and many of them seem to be heroic types. They're also all Dark.
** Implied with Sephira Naga and Sephira Roots. Both members of the Shaddoll Archetype. The other 4 archetypes supported by this one are more heroic, Especially notable with Naga who resembles Evilswarm Kerykeyion, one of the two monsters to have killed [[GodIsEvil Sophia]]. Note that these two are the only Shaddoll monsters without any discernible strings.




[[AC: War Games]]

* In ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'' the Black Templars and Dark Angels Space Marine Chapters are... no ''more'' evil than their peers, although the Dark Angels are one of the shadier Chapters of Space Marines, more concerned with personal redemption than serving the Imperium itself. Though, the Dark Eldar are definitely a lot worse than the Craftworld Eldar.
** The Black Templars are [[KnightTemplar even more fanatical]] than usual and the Dark Angels...[[MysteriousPast well]]. It's also not fair to label all the SpaceMarine Chapters as "evil" - the Ultramarines and the Imperial Fists are examples of a couple of the more genuinely heroic chapters. The Raven Guard are a better example of DarkIsNotEvil.
** The Soul Drinkers are a dead-straight example: their name sounds pretty nasty by itself, their motto is "Cold and fast", and as a pleasant bonus the vast majority of them are mutated in some way, with their Chapter Master having the legs of a giant spider. They're the closest 40K gets to NeutralGood, fighting both the destructive madness of Chaos and the tyranny of the Imperium.
** Then there's the Space Wolves, who all look like [[NinjaZombiePirateRobot large, wolf-fanged, viking Space Marines]], who are all pretty damn pissed that the administratum decided to wipe out the remaining survivors on a planet they had just saved. Needless to say, they are probably the least tolerating towards the administratum's actions of all the chapters still in the Imperium.
** The Salamanders have jet-black skin and glowing red eyes, but are actually concerned with protecting innocent people instead of just slaughtering the bad guys (and whoever gets in the way).
** In the novel ''Literature/{{Eisenhorn}}'', the eponymous Inquisitor is surprised that a Librarian of the Deathwatch Chapter is a very erudite, even ''nice'', guy, despite being a veteran xeno-fighter with Terminator honors.
** In ''Literature/BrothersOfTheSnake'', the distinction can be drawn between two of the senior marines. On one hand: Librarian Petrok, a walking CMOA and superhuman killing machine whose attitude towards those around him, particularly Priad, could nevertheless be described as 'chummy'. He is given to occasional whimsy, and likes to "remind himself that he has a soul". On the flipside of this, there's Hero-Captain Phobor, a more conventional Astartes in that he's a humorless, unrelenting psychopath who is 100% devoted to warfare and nothing else, and is contemptuous of weakness to the point of sentencing the officer corps of an Imperial Guard regiment to penal legions for failing to win a battle of attrition.
** The ones in black armor and face-concealing skull-painted helms? Those are SpaceMarine [[BadassPreacher Chaplains]], whose job it is to maintain their brother's faith through exemplary leadership.
** There's also the enigmatic Legion of the Damned, a Space Marine chapter notable for their black armor decorated with flames, skulls and bones. [[BigDamnHeroes They jump into battles to help the Imperium's forces in times of great need, curb-stomp the enemy forces, and then leave as quickly as they turn up]]. It is believed that they're the survivors from the long-lost Fire Hawks chapter, which was lost to the Warp a long time ago.
** Speaking of bone, the harlequin death jesters wear black, a skull mask, and bone-studded armor, and fight with a minigun shooting envenomed "shuriken". The harlequin are sworn foes of the Ruinous powers and will occasionally appear seemingly out of nowhere to aid those fighting Chaos.
** While they are hardly particularly good (to other races, they tend to do well enough by their own) the Black Guardians of Ulthwe are veteran foes of chaos and were allied with the Imperium during the latest Black Crusade.
* The ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}}'' world has a few examples, notably the followers of Mohr, god of death. His paladins dress in armour carved from obsidian, but are as heroic as anyone in [[BlackAndGreyMorality this]] [[CrapsackWorld setting]]. Oh, and they really hate the undead.
** Ditto for the wizards of the Amethyst College: in spite of their dark robes and nasty-looking scythes of office, their aim, just like the other Colleges of Magic, is to serve and protect the Empire.
** The Empire itself certainly qualifies, as it follows a dark Germanic/Gothic theme in its architecture, units and art, but is depicted as a much fairer place for the ordinary person to live than [[TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}} the Imperium of Man]] and a truly noble force in the world, [[GoodIsNotNice though still brutal]] to its [[ProudWarriorRaceGuy extremely]] [[TheUndead horrid]] [[ReligionOfEvil enemies]].
** Speaking of ''Warhammer'', the undead themselves sometimes qualify for this trope themselves. Blatantly obvious are the Tomb Kings, who for the most part just want to be left alone and be left to rest. The Vampire Counts, on the other hand, can range between anything from the occasional AntiVillain to the far more common rogue, mainly because they are a far more varied bunch than the Tomb Kings.
*** A ''TabletopGame/WarhammerFantasyRoleplay'' supplement has a short story about a scholar from the Empire who traveled to distant Khemri, braving the burning sands and the restless dead to explore the ancient city of Bel Aliad. He was caught when his guide foolishly decided to do a bit of tomb robbing, and soon a squad of skeletal soldiers escorted them both to an ancient throneroom, where they met the mummified Tomb Prince who ruled the city and a Liche Priest who spoke fluent Reikspiel. The prince, through the priest, asked why the scholar had traveled so far to steal his possessions, and the scholar explained that he wasn't here for treasure - his wife had been poisoned by a rival, and he hoped that this legendary city of healing might offer a cure. When this was translated back to the mummy, the prince sat in silence for a moment, then gestured at the guards, who promptly cut of the thieving guide's head. Then the prince smiled, spoke with the priest again, and left with his retinue. The priest gave the scholar a message: "My lord commands me to tell you that he, too, loved once. He too would've gone to the ends of the world to save his love. I am to show you the wisdom you seek." And thus the scholar was brought to a secret chamber and allowed to return home with the knowledge to save his wife.
** While we're on the subject of the undead, we have Abhorash, the first Blood Dragon. See, he was a pretty decent guy and never actually wanted to become a vampire but Neferata turned him into one against his will. His initial attempt to resist his HorrorHunger ended in disaster when he murdered a lot of people in a blood frenzy, and afterwards he was ''really'' sorry about it, so much he developed a policy of never drinking the blood of innocent people, only [[BloodKnight worthy challenges]] and [[PayEvilUntoEvil people who deserved it]].



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[[AC: Card Games]]

* The Golgari Swarm in the ''TabletopGame/MagicTheGathering'' setting of Ravnica are a cult of elf and human necromancers who use zombies as labor... but they're also an indispensable part of Ravnica's society, providing food and waste disposal services. A lot of them are indeed black-hearted knaves who sacrifice unwilling people to raise them as undead, but one of the heroes of the tie-in novels is the leader of the Golgari, who's working to reform them after the death of his evil sister.
** What about Black? Its iconic creatures are zombies, vampires, and demons. But they aren't defined as strictly evil, only greedy or ambitious. In theory anyway. In practice it's also heavily associated with sadism, desecration and murder.
** However, Kamigawa's main protagonist, [[AntiHero Toshiro Umezawa]], is black, while its main antagonist (among mortals, at least), Konda, [[LightIsNotGood is white]].
** Mark Rosewater discusses Black's ideology at length [[http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr109 here]].
** The vampire planeswalker Sorin Markov is another black AntiHero. He's scheming, vicious and paranoid...but at the same time, he managed to work together with two other planeswalkers to seal the Eldrazi in their [[SealedEvilInACan can]].
*** In fact, given that he is singularly responsible for nothing less than the [[spoiler: '''creation of at least one virtuous god-figure''',]] purely to defend the humans of his home plane, Sorin is capable of remarkable compassion and foresight (although in this set, he is part-white, unlike before, though this might be due to his use of plains magic, as mana cost often isn't entirely accurate to the character's personality).
** To a lesser extent, gargoyles. Although they are technically White, their appearance is [[http://www.abugames.com/images/products/5thedition/abbeygargoyles.jpg quite]] [[http://magic.tcgplayer.com/images/article/gargoyle.jpg demonic]]
** ''Magic'' has gone back and forth on this when it comes to Black. It didn't help that the ultimate BigBad of the setting for the first several years, the Clockwork Hell of Phyrexia, was mono-Black. Obviously, the team recognized their DarkIsEvil problem of the past, because the New Phyrexia is five-color.
** Avacyn from the Innistrad Pack. Seriously, [[http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/arcana/864_unhbhpaqaq.jpg look at her]]! Would you guess a gothic woman with deathly pale skin and black leather would be the guardian angel of mankind? (Of her plane, of course. She can't planeswalk)
*** The PAX video heavily hints that her dark look was acquired due to her stay in the Helvault with the demons. If that's the case, this definitely this trope, as the demonic influence had no effect on her morality.
** Chainer is another Black aligned protagonist (before being corrupted, anyway), as is the Sapling of Colfenor, Teysa, and, as of Innistrad, [[spoiler: Liliana Vess]] (who was just an anti-heroine in her previous appearances anyways).
** Very prevalent in the Theros Block, in which the mono-Black god, [[EverybodyHatesHades Erebos]], is one of the most reasonable and kind (albeit not without his moments of anger and pettiness), as are the Green/Black Pharika and White/Black Athreos; the Green/Blue god Kruphix is definitely the most benevolent of all of the settings deities, and he appears solely as a LivingShadow.
** Though the Tarkir setting plays DarkIsEvil up with the most evil of the clans being the Black-centered Sultai, it also features prominently benevolent aspects to Black. The Abzan are part-Black and definitely one of the most positively portrayed clans, with their mono-Black cards being unambiguously benevolent as they portray loyal [[OurOrcsAreDifferent orcs]] and protective ancestor spirits. Meanwhile, [[spoiler:in the new timeline created by the setting's time traveling shenanigans, it's eventually revealed that Kolaghan, the Black/Red dragon, is originally most benevolent of the bunch, being the only of the five brood leaders to not enslave the clan they shared their lands with, instead inviting the Mardu to keep up with her in her travels. Later averted into straight DarkIsEvil after 1, 280 years in which the clan becomes [[TearJerker a horde of murderous cannibals under Kolaghan's influence]].]]
** The Aetherborn of Kaladesh are an interesting race in that they represent black's elements of hedonism rather than its cruelty. Each one is born knowing exactly how long it's going to live (four years at most, although some can [[VampiricDraining steal more from others]]), and that acute sense of mortality motivates them to make the most of their short time. While some are more sinister, most love nothing more than a good party and tend to be excellent hosts thanks to their empathic abilities.
* ''[[http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Ally_of_Justice The Ally of Justice]]'' set of cards from the ''TabletopGame/YuGiOh'' card game are DARK attribute. Also worth noting, ''[[LightIsNotGood they hate light with every fiber of their being]]''. (Ironically, in the anime, these cards are used by the [[DeceptivelyHumanRobots Diablo army]] unleashed by Placido, whose intentions [[CrushKillDestroy are not good at all.]])
** They were created to fight the [[http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Worms Worms]], which are [[StarfishAlien horrendous]], [[ReptilesAreAbhorrent reptillian]], LightIsNotGood [[EldritchAbomination Eldritch Abominations]].
** There are also the Dark World Fiends, which are an odd case. They were villains in the anime, where they were clearly evil, but the flavor text of [[http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Zure%2C_Knight_of_Dark_World Zure, Knight of Dark World]] and [[http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Renge,_Gatekeeper_of_Dark_World Renge, Gatekeeper of Darkworld]] portrays them as renown heroes, while the ''Master Guide 2'' support book claims that they aren't evil at all. Obviously this was a case of AdaptationalVillainy on the anime's part.
** The reason the Ghostrick entered the Yu-Gi-Oh fray was because fewer people believed in them and they were lonely, and they seem to be more interested in scaring people than fighting. Their tactics of bypassing their opponent's monsters using their Field Spell supports this.
** The Inzektors are based on ''Franchise/KamenRider'', and many of them seem to be heroic types. They're also all Dark.
** Implied with Sephira Naga and Sephira Roots. Both members of the Shaddoll Archetype. The other 4 archetypes supported by this one are more heroic, Especially notable with Naga who resembles Evilswarm Kerykeyion, one of the two monsters to have killed [[GodIsEvil Sophia]]. Note that these two are the only Shaddoll monsters without any discernible strings.
** The Destiny [=HEROes=] are all DARK and look positively demonic, with lots of skulls and {{spikes| of villainy}}, but they're, you know, heroes. Several support cards portray them as allied to the unambigously heroic Elemental [=HEROes=]
30th Sep '16 6:34:43 AM Ur-Sharth
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** Though the Tarkir setting plays DarkIsEvil up with the most evil of the clans being the Black-centered Sultai, it also features prominently benevolent aspects to Black. The Abzan are part-Black and definitely one of the most positively portrayed clans, with their mono-Black cards being unambiguously benevolent as they portray loyal [[OurOrcsAreDifferent orcs]] and protective ancestor spirits. Meanwhile, [[spoiler:in the new timeline created by the setting's time traveling shenanigans, it's eventually revealed that Kolaghan, the Black/Red dragon, is originally most benevolent of the bunch, being the only of the five brood leaders to not enslave the clan they shared their lands with, instead inviting the Mardu to keep up with her in her travels. Later averted into straight DarkIsEvil after 1, 280 years in which the clan becomes [[ TearJerker a horde of murderous cannibals under Kolaghan's influence]].]]

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** Though the Tarkir setting plays DarkIsEvil up with the most evil of the clans being the Black-centered Sultai, it also features prominently benevolent aspects to Black. The Abzan are part-Black and definitely one of the most positively portrayed clans, with their mono-Black cards being unambiguously benevolent as they portray loyal [[OurOrcsAreDifferent orcs]] and protective ancestor spirits. Meanwhile, [[spoiler:in the new timeline created by the setting's time traveling shenanigans, it's eventually revealed that Kolaghan, the Black/Red dragon, is originally most benevolent of the bunch, being the only of the five brood leaders to not enslave the clan they shared their lands with, instead inviting the Mardu to keep up with her in her travels. Later averted into straight DarkIsEvil after 1, 280 years in which the clan becomes [[ TearJerker [[TearJerker a horde of murderous cannibals under Kolaghan's influence]].]]
30th Sep '16 6:33:32 AM Ur-Sharth
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** Though the Tarkir setting plays DarkIsEvil up with the most evil of the clans being the Black-centered Sultai, it also features prominently benevolent aspects to Black. The Abzan are part-Black and definitely one of the most positively portrayed clans, with their mono-Black cards being unambiguously benevolent as they portray loyal [[OurOrcsAreDifferent orcs]] and protective ancestor spirits. Meanwhile, [[spoiler:in the new timeline created by the setting's time traveling shenanigans, it's eventually revealed that Kolaghan, the Black/Red dragon, is the most benevolent of the bunch, being the only of the five brood leaders to not enslave the clan they shared their lands with, instead inviting the Mardu to keep up with her in her travels. Definitely a stark contrast to the usual portrayal of Black/Red.]]

to:

** Though the Tarkir setting plays DarkIsEvil up with the most evil of the clans being the Black-centered Sultai, it also features prominently benevolent aspects to Black. The Abzan are part-Black and definitely one of the most positively portrayed clans, with their mono-Black cards being unambiguously benevolent as they portray loyal [[OurOrcsAreDifferent orcs]] and protective ancestor spirits. Meanwhile, [[spoiler:in the new timeline created by the setting's time traveling shenanigans, it's eventually revealed that Kolaghan, the Black/Red dragon, is the originally most benevolent of the bunch, being the only of the five brood leaders to not enslave the clan they shared their lands with, instead inviting the Mardu to keep up with her in her travels. Definitely a stark contrast to Later averted into straight DarkIsEvil after 1, 280 years in which the usual portrayal clan becomes [[ TearJerker a horde of Black/Red.murderous cannibals under Kolaghan's influence]].]]
23rd Sep '16 1:39:06 PM tytoman
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** The Aetherborn of Kaladesh are an interesting race in that they represent black's elements of hedonism rather than its cruelty. Each one is born knowing exactly how long it's going to live (four years at most, although some can [[VampiricDraining steal more from others]]), and that acute sense of mortality motivates them to make the most of their short time. While some are more sinister, most love nothing more than a good party and tend to be excellent hosts thanks to their empathic abilities.
22nd Sep '16 9:00:44 PM Killztwice
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Added DiffLines:

** Best example of this trope in Pathfinder would be Tsukiyo, one of the major deities in the Dragon Empires. The god of the moon, jade, and spirits, Tsukiyo's domains include darkness and ''madness'', despite being LawfulGood.
24th Aug '16 11:45:00 AM Irennan
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** Speaking of races, drow serving Eilistraee (ChaoticGood goddess) managed to implement ''both'' DarkIsNotEvil and GoodIsNotNice: they are supposed to be more benevolent than one would expect from an average surface elf, let alone drow, but frequently are too paranoid, aggressive and/or even HolierThanThou to be a good company.

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** Speaking of races, drow serving Eilistraee (ChaoticGood goddess) managed to implement ''both'' DarkIsNotEvil and GoodIsNotNice: they GoodIsNotNice. They are supposed to be more benevolent than one would expect and welcoming, given the ideals taught by the goddess, but some groups (especially recent converts, that come from an average surface elf, let alone drow, but frequently are a Lolthite background) can be too paranoid, aggressive and/or aggressive, and (in some cases) even HolierThanThou to be a good company.
30th Jul '16 4:51:53 PM nombretomado
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*** That's because the Dark Pact has a modified version of CastFromHitPoints applied to it; some of its spells can be made more powerful by draining HitPoints from allies, while others cause a penalty to allies in exchange for working. And what about the Vestige Pact, which revolves around drawing upon the spiritual remnants of powerful forces and entities that displayed either great authority or awful capabilities in life? Or The Sorcerer King pact from DarkSun, based around getting power from the horrible wizards who get their powers from draining the lifeforce of the planet?

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*** That's because the Dark Pact has a modified version of CastFromHitPoints applied to it; some of its spells can be made more powerful by draining HitPoints from allies, while others cause a penalty to allies in exchange for working. And what about the Vestige Pact, which revolves around drawing upon the spiritual remnants of powerful forces and entities that displayed either great authority or awful capabilities in life? Or The Sorcerer King pact from DarkSun, TabletopGame/DarkSun, based around getting power from the horrible wizards who get their powers from draining the lifeforce of the planet?
27th Jul '16 6:33:37 PM Leliel
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** It's downplayed with the rest of everything, though

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** It's downplayed with the rest of everything, thoughthough. A big theme in the setting is that everyone, especially monsters, will resort to dark things in order to survive. The noble ones are measured by who's torn up about it after the fact and tries to balance the scales.
27th Jul '16 6:30:51 PM Leliel
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** Overall, however, both games avert it. You are dark, and you are evil - not always quite as evil as the rest of your race, and the fact that becoming evil generally means losing your character doesn't help, but at the end of the day, you're either a blood-drinking/power-hungry/absurdly territorial monster if you don't have any qualms about killing for your own ends, or dead if you do. The requirements for maintaing a 10 in humanity, among which include never having a selfish thought, are just dripping with the sarcastic thought that you would make it there in the first place.

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** Overall, however, both games avert it. You are dark, and you are evil - not always quite as evil as It's downplayed with the rest of your race, and the fact that becoming evil generally means losing your character doesn't help, but at the end of the day, you're either a blood-drinking/power-hungry/absurdly territorial monster if you don't have any qualms about killing for your own ends, or dead if you do. The requirements for maintaing a 10 in humanity, among which include never having a selfish thought, are just dripping with the sarcastic thought that you would make it there in the first place.everything, though
28th Jun '16 6:09:14 AM thatmadork
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Added DiffLines:

** While we're on the subject of the undead, we have Abhorash, the first Blood Dragon. See, he was a pretty decent guy and never actually wanted to become a vampire but Neferata turned him into one against his will. His initial attempt to resist his HorrorHunger ended in disaster when he murdered a lot of people in a blood frenzy, and afterwards he was ''really'' sorry about it, so much he developed a policy of never drinking the blood of innocent people, only [[BloodKnight worthy challenges]] and [[PayEvilUntoEvil people who deserved it]].
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