History Creator / NiccoloMachiavelli

2nd Aug '16 9:56:26 AM JamesAustin
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->''Anyone who studies present and ancient affairs will easily see how in all cities and all peoples there still exist...the same desires and passions. Thus, it is an easy matter for him who carefully examines past events to foresee future events...But since these matters are neglected...or, if understood, remain unknown to those who govern, the result is that the same problems always exist in every era.''

to:

->''Anyone ->''"Anyone who studies present and ancient affairs will easily see how in all cities and all peoples there still exist...the same desires and passions. Thus, it is an easy matter for him who carefully examines past events to foresee future events...But since these matters are neglected...or, if understood, remain unknown to those who govern, the result is that the same problems always exist in every era.''"''
2nd Aug '16 9:52:37 AM JamesAustin
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Hegel argued that it was written for a certain time and certain locale and to judge it based on contemporary morality and from the perspective of someone living in a unified nation state was unfair. Since the mid-twentieth century, the most common interpretation of ''The Prince'' is that it simply describes as Francis Bacon said, "what men do, and not what they ought to do" and that it is the first true work to deal with politics as a branch of science and not ethics. Another unfair misinterpretation of Machiavelli is seeing him as someone who wrote for the benefit of [insert favorite mass murdering tyrant here]. This is unfair to Machiavelli considering that someone like Hitler doesn't need a centuries dead philosopher to give him permission to go on a murderous rampage, whereas a democratic leader with a strong moral compass like Abe Lincoln or Winston Churchill might have doubts about what their duties as a leader are. And, for that matter, Machiavelli would probably have approved of pragmatic democratic statesmen like [[UsefulNotes/RichardNixon Nixon]] or [[Creator/BenjaminDisraeli Disraeli]] more than insane ideologues like Hitler or Stalin.

to:

Hegel argued that it was written for a certain time and certain locale and to judge it based on contemporary morality and from the perspective of someone living in a unified nation state was unfair. Since the mid-twentieth century, the most common interpretation of ''The Prince'' is that it simply describes as Francis Bacon said, "what men do, and not what they ought to do" and that it is the first true work to deal with politics as a branch of science and not ethics. Another unfair misinterpretation of Machiavelli is seeing him as someone who wrote for the benefit of [insert favorite mass murdering tyrant here]. This is unfair to Machiavelli considering that someone like Hitler doesn't need a centuries dead philosopher to give him permission to go on a murderous rampage, whereas a democratic leader with a strong moral compass like Abe Lincoln or Winston Churchill might have doubts about what their duties as a leader are. And, for that matter, Machiavelli would probably have approved of pragmatic democratic statesmen like [[UsefulNotes/RichardNixon Nixon]] or [[Creator/BenjaminDisraeli [[UsefulNotes/BenjaminDisraeli Disraeli]] more than insane ideologues like Hitler or Stalin.
2nd Jul '16 2:08:41 PM Eilevgmyhren
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* He is the main character in the ([[DoorStopper rather long]]) Norwegian play ''Towards Carnival'', written in 1915, telling the story of Machiavelli and his contemporaries from the death of Savonarola to the time he wrote ''The Prince''.
12th Jun '16 8:50:20 PM PaulA
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'''Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavegli''' (1469-1527) was a Florentine writer, philosopher, and political theorist active at a time of great chaos and turmoil throughout Italy. He is best-known for writing ''Literature/ThePrince'', a handbook for the ruling Medici family on how to most effectively run a principality. Due to ''The Prince'' being his best-known work, coupled with the fact that [[MainstreamObscurity few who quote it have actually read it]], Machiavelli's name has become a byword for being a ruthless, manipulative, backstabbing bastard; so much so that in Creator/ChristopherMarlowe's ''The Jew of Malta'', Machiavelli is presented on stage as the narrator of the prologue, and the term ''Old Nick'' to refer to TheDevil may also be derived from his forename.

to:

'''Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavegli''' (1469-1527) was a Florentine writer, philosopher, and political theorist active at a time of great chaos and turmoil throughout Italy. He is best-known for writing ''Literature/ThePrince'', a handbook for the ruling Medici family on how to most effectively run a principality. Due to ''The Prince'' being his best-known work, coupled with the fact that [[MainstreamObscurity few who quote it have actually read it]], Machiavelli's name has become a byword for being a ruthless, manipulative, backstabbing bastard; so much so that in Creator/ChristopherMarlowe's ''The Jew of Malta'', ''Theatre/TheJewOfMalta'', Machiavelli is presented on stage as the narrator of the prologue, and the term ''Old Nick'' to refer to TheDevil may also be derived from his forename.



* Creator/ChristopherMarlowe's famous prologue from ''The Jew of Malta'' has Machiavel introduce the action with a stereotyped invocation of his political philosophy.

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* Creator/ChristopherMarlowe's famous prologue from ''The Jew of Malta'' ''Theatre/TheJewOfMalta'' has Machiavel introduce the action with a stereotyped invocation of his political philosophy.
12th Jun '16 6:54:03 PM PaulA
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* BeamMeUpScotty: He's quoted as saying that it's better for a ruler to be feared rather than loved in ''Literature/ThePrince''. To be fair he did say that, but only if you couldn't be both; it's best if you are feared ''and'' loved. Above all, you should make sure you're not ''hated'', as hatred overcomes fear of punishment.
** The actual point of the quote was to let the reader know that a Prince who is loved, but not feared, will be more readily betrayed by his subjects than a Prince who is feared, but not loved. Thus, fear without inspiring hatred is important to a Prince.

to:

* BeamMeUpScotty: BeamMeUpScotty:
**
He's quoted as saying that it's better for a ruler to be feared rather than loved in ''Literature/ThePrince''. To be fair he did say that, but only if you couldn't be both; it's best if you are feared ''and'' loved. Above all, you should make sure you're not ''hated'', as hatred overcomes fear of punishment.
**
punishment. The actual point of the quote was to let the reader know that a Prince who is loved, but not feared, will be more readily betrayed by his subjects than a Prince who is feared, but not loved. Thus, fear without inspiring hatred is important to a Prince.



* BornInTheWrongCentury: He shared the [[RenaissanceMan Renaissance mentality]] of being several centuries ahead of his time and of wanting to live in AncientRome, and sometimes dressed up in a toga.
** Interesting because he is born either after his time or ahead of it--or both.
--> ''"The plan of the UsefulNotes/FrenchRevolution was written large in the books of Machiavelli".''
-->-- '''UsefulNotes/MaximilienRobespierre'''

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* BornInTheWrongCentury: He shared the [[RenaissanceMan Renaissance mentality]] of being several centuries ahead of his time and of wanting to live in AncientRome, and sometimes dressed up in a toga.
**
toga. Interesting because he is born either after his time or ahead of it--or both.
--> ''"The
both. Centuries later, UsefulNotes/MaximilienRobespierre said that "The plan of the UsefulNotes/FrenchRevolution was written large in the books of Machiavelli".''
-->-- '''UsefulNotes/MaximilienRobespierre'''
Machiavelli."



* DeadpanSnarker: A common way of portraying Machiavelli in fiction but also TruthInTelevision. This can be seen in his account of a dream he had where he saw all the saints in {{Heaven}} and philosophers like Creator/{{Plato}} in {{Hell}}. When he told this dream to his friends, Machiavelli said that he'd [[AHellOfATime rather be in Hell with interesting people]] than in Heaven where everyone was boring and good.

to:

* DeadpanSnarker: A common way of portraying Machiavelli in fiction but also TruthInTelevision. TruthInTelevision.
**
This can be seen in his account of a dream he had where he saw all the saints in {{Heaven}} and philosophers like Creator/{{Plato}} in {{Hell}}. When he told this dream to his friends, Machiavelli said that he'd [[AHellOfATime rather be in Hell with interesting people]] than in Heaven where everyone was boring and good.



* TheGoodChancellor[=/=]EvilChancellor: Machiavelli was Chancellor of the Florentine Republic. YMMV on which one you believe he was.
** According to historians, his tenure in Florence was a rare instance of corruption free governance during the Renaissance and his creation of the Florence standing army was regarded as a great achievement. Unfortunately the Medici returned.

to:

* TheGoodChancellor[=/=]EvilChancellor: Machiavelli was Chancellor of the Florentine Republic. YMMV on which one you believe he was.
**
was. According to historians, his tenure in Florence was a rare instance of corruption free governance during the Renaissance and his creation of the Florence standing army was regarded as a great achievement. Unfortunately the Medici returned.



* MyCountryRightOrWrong: Machiavelli was a proto-[[PatrioticFervor patriot]] who wanted a united Italy at a time when no one else particularly thought it was possible.
** He hated the fact that the FeudingFamilies of the various city states and their reliance on PrivateMilitaryContractors [[CrapsackWorld had left Italy open to plunder]] from neighbouring kingdoms. One reason why historians feel that Machiavelli was so forgiving to Cesare Borgia was that the latter at least mounted an attempt to unify Italy under the Papal States. Hence why, he wrote [[ThePrince a book]] about how a dastardly, wickedly cunning, violent man would be a good ruler.
** Of course Machiavelli would have ideally preferred a Republic, built on a civilian army, like the one that he had built for the Florence, which succeeded in keeping the city Medici-Free until 1512. The fact was that a Republic in the 1500s could not have united a large area of land, and Machiavelli knew that. It wouldn't become a possibility until UsefulNotes/TheEnlightenment and the UsefulNotes/WarsOfItalianIndependence that followed the former.
* NoCelebritiesWereHarmed: After his death his son found an unfinished play that Machiavelli had been working on that contained several thinly-veiled and quite cynical parodies of several important men in Florence.

to:

* MyCountryRightOrWrong: Machiavelli was a proto-[[PatrioticFervor patriot]] who wanted a united Italy at a time when no one else particularly thought it was possible. \n** He hated the fact that the FeudingFamilies of the various city states and their reliance on PrivateMilitaryContractors [[CrapsackWorld had left Italy open to plunder]] from neighbouring kingdoms. One reason why historians feel that Machiavelli was so forgiving to Cesare Borgia was that the latter at least mounted an attempt to unify Italy under the Papal States. Hence why, he wrote [[ThePrince [[Literature/ThePrince a book]] about how a dastardly, wickedly cunning, violent man would be a good ruler.
**
ruler. Of course Machiavelli would have ideally preferred a Republic, built on a civilian army, like the one that he had built for the Florence, which succeeded in keeping the city Medici-Free until 1512. The fact was that a Republic in the 1500s could not have united a large area of land, and Machiavelli knew that. It wouldn't become a possibility until UsefulNotes/TheEnlightenment and the UsefulNotes/WarsOfItalianIndependence that followed the former.
* NoCelebritiesWereHarmed: NoCelebritiesWereHarmed:
**
After his death his son found an unfinished play that Machiavelli had been working on that contained several thinly-veiled and quite cynical parodies of several important men in Florence.



* PrivateMilitaryContractors: In ''ThePrince'', Machiavelli blamed Italy's dominance by foreign powers on the fact that the Italian states all tended to rely on hired mercenaries in war. He pointed out that a soldier's purpose is to protect; a mercenary's is to ''damage'' at the least risk to themselves, which made them most dangerous to their allies and civilians, and least dangerous to the enemy. In battle they tended to get slaughtered, [[DirtyCoward in the unlikely event they turned up at all]]. Armies with more direct loyalty to their prince or their state tended to do much better.
** So much so that he devoted an entire chapter to why one should not rely on mercenaries, and put reminders in the other two chapters on warfare.
** And ''Discourses'' is rather critical of them as well.

to:

* PrivateMilitaryContractors: In ''ThePrince'', ''Literature/ThePrince'', Machiavelli blamed Italy's dominance by foreign powers on the fact that the Italian states all tended to rely on hired mercenaries in war.war; he devoted an entire chapter to why one should not rely on mercenaries, and put reminders in the other two chapters on warfare. And ''Discourses'' is rather critical of them as well. He pointed out that a soldier's purpose is to protect; a mercenary's is to ''damage'' at the least risk to themselves, which made them most dangerous to their allies and civilians, and least dangerous to the enemy. In battle they tended to get slaughtered, [[DirtyCoward in the unlikely event they turned up at all]]. Armies with more direct loyalty to their prince or their state tended to do much better.
** So much so that he devoted an entire chapter to why one should not rely on mercenaries, and put reminders in the other two chapters on warfare.
** And ''Discourses'' is rather critical of them as well.
better.
10th Jun '16 1:36:34 AM JulianLapostat
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Added DiffLines:

* {{Cuckold}}: The plot of his comedy''The Mandrake'' revolves around convincing the hapless Messer Nicia to let the AntiHero Callimaco to ''willingly'' sleep with his wife.
10th Jun '16 1:02:41 AM JulianLapostat
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* HistoricalVillainUpgrade: Perhaps undeservedly.



* TallDarkAndSnarky

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* TallDarkAndSnarkySympatheticAdulterer: Lucretia, the wife of the Magister, in his play ''The Mandrake'' is slowly convinced that her constant assignations are condoned by God.
* TallDarkAndSnarky: How he's usually depicted in HistoricalFiction. Letters from his friends do however confirm that there was truth in this.
13th May '16 5:50:46 PM Alceister
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** Of course Machiavelli would have ideally preferred a Republic, built on a civilian army, like the one that he had built for the Florence, which succeeded in keeping the city Medici-Free until 1512. The fact is a Republic in the 1500s could not have united a large area of land, and Machiavelli knew that. It wouldn't become a possibility until UsefulNotes/TheEnlightenment and the UsefulNotes/WarsOfItalianIndependence that followed the former.

to:

** Of course Machiavelli would have ideally preferred a Republic, built on a civilian army, like the one that he had built for the Florence, which succeeded in keeping the city Medici-Free until 1512. The fact is was that a Republic in the 1500s could not have united a large area of land, and Machiavelli knew that. It wouldn't become a possibility until UsefulNotes/TheEnlightenment and the UsefulNotes/WarsOfItalianIndependence that followed the former.
14th Apr '16 12:28:37 AM JulianLapostat
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->''Anyone who studies present and ancient affairs will easily see how in all cities and all peoples there still exist...the same desires and passions. Thus, it is an easy matter for him who carefully examines past events to foresee future events...to apply the remedies employed by the ancients...But since these matters are neglected... by those who read, or, if understood, remain unknown to those who govern, the result is that the same problems always exist in every era.''

to:

->''Anyone who studies present and ancient affairs will easily see how in all cities and all peoples there still exist...the same desires and passions. Thus, it is an easy matter for him who carefully examines past events to foresee future events...to apply the remedies employed by the ancients...But since these matters are neglected... by those who read, or, if understood, remain unknown to those who govern, the result is that the same problems always exist in every era.''
13th Apr '16 7:49:26 PM CassandraLeo
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Hegel argued that it was written for a certain time and certain locale and to judge it based on contemporary morality and from the perspective of someone living in a unified nation state was unfair. Since the mid-twentieth century, the most common interpretation of ''The Prince'' is that it simply describes as Francis Bacon said, "what men do, and not what they ought to do" and that it is the first true work to deal with politics as a branch of science and not ethics. Another unfair misinterpretation of Machiavelli is seeing him as someone who wrote for the benefit of [insert favorite mass murdering tyrant here]. This is unfair to Machiavelli considering that someone like Hitler doesn't need a centuries dead philosopher to give him permission to go on a murderous rampage, whereas a democratic leader with a strong moral compass like Abe Lincoln or Winston Churchill might have doubts about what their duties as a leader are. And, for that matter, Machiavelli would probably have approved of pragmatic democratic statesmen like [[UsefulNotes/RichardNixon Nixon]] or Disraeli more than insane ideologues like Hitler or Stalin.

to:

Hegel argued that it was written for a certain time and certain locale and to judge it based on contemporary morality and from the perspective of someone living in a unified nation state was unfair. Since the mid-twentieth century, the most common interpretation of ''The Prince'' is that it simply describes as Francis Bacon said, "what men do, and not what they ought to do" and that it is the first true work to deal with politics as a branch of science and not ethics. Another unfair misinterpretation of Machiavelli is seeing him as someone who wrote for the benefit of [insert favorite mass murdering tyrant here]. This is unfair to Machiavelli considering that someone like Hitler doesn't need a centuries dead philosopher to give him permission to go on a murderous rampage, whereas a democratic leader with a strong moral compass like Abe Lincoln or Winston Churchill might have doubts about what their duties as a leader are. And, for that matter, Machiavelli would probably have approved of pragmatic democratic statesmen like [[UsefulNotes/RichardNixon Nixon]] or Disraeli [[Creator/BenjaminDisraeli Disraeli]] more than insane ideologues like Hitler or Stalin.
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