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** Took on the various Caesarian warlords, most particularly Mark Antony, with no protection but his name, his reputation and his spectacular talents as an orator.

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** Took He also took on the various Caesarian warlords, most particularly Mark Antony, with no protection but his name, his reputation and his spectacular talents as an orator.



** It is worth noting, after reading the above, that Cicero lost only one case. He lost that case because the court was filled with heavily armed, menacing looking men wanting a conviction and staring meaningfully at both him and the jury throughout proceedings.

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** *** It is worth noting, after reading the above, that Cicero lost only one case. He lost that case because the court was filled with heavily armed, menacing looking men wanting a conviction and staring meaningfully at both him and the jury throughout proceedings.

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* APupilOfMineUntilHeTurnedEvil: Octavian, though there was mutual admiration between the two even after Octavian largely discarded him, and the future Emperor later appointed Cicero's son as his consul. He also turned a blind eye to the latter's RoaringRampageOfRevenge against Mark Antony and Antony's entire family.

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* APupilOfMineUntilHeTurnedEvil: APupilOfMineUntilHeTurnedToEvil: Octavian, though there was mutual admiration between the two even after Octavian largely discarded him, and the future Emperor later appointed Cicero's son as his consul. He also turned a blind eye to the latter's RoaringRampageOfRevenge against Mark Antony and Antony's entire family.


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* DoomedMoralVictor: against Mark Antony.

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* APupilOfMineUntilHeTurnedEvil: Octavian, though there was mutual admiration between the two even after Octavian largely discarded him, and the future Emperor later appointed Cicero's son as his consul. He also turned a blind eye to the latter's RoaringRampageOfRevenge against Mark Antony and Antony's entire family.



* {{Badass}}: he took on the Triumvirate, composed of Caesar, Pompey (brilliant generals and, in Caesar's case, a brilliant politician too) and Crassus (one of the richest men in history, a MagnificentBastard, DiabolicalMastermind and often the ManBehindTheMan in the Senate). While he failed and they brought him to heel, it took immense balls to do something like that.
** Took on the various Caesarian warlords, most particularly Mark Antony, with no protection but his name, his reputation and his spectacular talents as an orator.



** Accusing a political rival of incest in a completely unrelated case, where the sister of said rival accused her lover in attempting to poison her (see above).

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** Accusing a political rival (Clodius) of incest in a completely unrelated case, where the sister of said rival accused her lover in of attempting to poison her (see above).



** It is worth noting, after reading the above, that Cicero lost only one case. He lost that case because the court was filled with heavily armed, menacing looking men wanting a conviction and staring meaningfully at the jury throughout proceedings.

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** It is worth noting, after reading the above, that Cicero lost only one case. He lost that case because the court was filled with heavily armed, menacing looking men wanting a conviction and staring meaningfully at both him and the jury throughout proceedings.proceedings.
* CowardlyLion: unlike most Roman politicians, he wasn't a soldier, but he was capable of being exceptionally brave, as shown by his verbal assaults on Mark Antony that led to his execution.



* DownerEnding: Whether you like him or not, Cicero was assassinated for speaking out.

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* DownerEnding: Whether you like him or not, Cicero truly believed in the Roman Republic and was assassinated for speaking out.out against those who were tearing it apart.



* GoodParents: he loved his daughter Tullia dearly, slipping into a lengthy HeroicBSOD.



* HeelFaceRevolvingDoor: was well known for changing sides, something he angsted about.



* HesBack: after spending years in the shadow of Caesar, Crassus and Pompey, being used for their purposes, grieving for his daughter and fearing to speak out against Caesar, he took on Mark Antony in what was probably his finest hour.



* HistoricalHeroUpgrade: Traditionally, he was viewed very fondly by history (most likely because he was ultimately killed unjustly), even though, as demonstrated by the LongList of his CourtroomAntics, he had no regard for logic and reason at all, having practically invented the ChewbaccaDefense, and was thus just as hostile to the idea of rationality and being unbiased as his opponents.

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* HistoricalHeroUpgrade: Traditionally, he was viewed very fondly by history (most likely because he was ultimately killed unjustly), even though, as demonstrated by the LongList of his CourtroomAntics, he had no regard for logic and reason at all, having practically invented the ChewbaccaDefense, ChewbaccaDefense and was thus just as hostile to the idea of rationality known for switching sides.
* InsufferableGenius: he knew perfectly well how clever he was
and being unbiased as his opponents.had no problem letting anyone and everyone know it.


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* RousingSpeech: gave these from time to time.


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* TearJerker: whatever else you may think of him, though evidence suggests that he was a complete egomaniac, the man wholeheartedly believed in the Republic and tried desperately to save it, fighting its enemies by every means he had at his disposal, well into old age. He essentially gave his life for it, something which was rendered futile by the succession of Emperors that followed.
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** Telling the judge he was going to ignore all courtroom procedure for the citizenship application he was arguing and [[ItMakesSenseInContext spend the next hour or so discussing Greek literature]].

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** Telling the judge he was going to ignore all courtroom procedure for the citizenship application he was arguing for and [[ItMakesSenseInContext spend the next hour or so discussing Greek literature]].



* HeterosexualLifePartners: with Atticus.

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* HeterosexualLifePartners: with With Atticus.
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** Accusing a political rival of incest in a completely unrelated case, where the sister of said rival accused her lover in attempting to poisin her (see above).

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** Accusing a political rival of incest in a completely unrelated case, where the sister of said rival accused her lover in attempting to poisin poison her (see above).
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** Accusing a political rival of incest in a completely unrelated case.

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** Accusing a political rival of incest in a completely unrelated case.case, where the sister of said rival accused her lover in attempting to poisin her (see above).
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* FauxdianSlip: In his speech in defense of Caelius, who had been accused of several crimes by his ex-lover Clodia. Clodia was the sister of one of Cicero's bitterest political enemies, and it was rumoured there was a BrotherSisterIncest relationship among the siblings. In his speech, Cicero said at one moment: "And, indeed, I would do so still more vigorously, if I had not a quarrel with that woman's husband - brother, I meant to say; I am always making this mistake."
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* CausticCritic: Whoo, boy.

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* CausticCritic: Whoo, boy. If you were up against him in court or on the Senate debate floor, he didn't pull any punches.
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'''Marcus Tullius Cicero''' (sometimes called "Tully" in later references), 106-43 BC, was a prominent statesmen and the preeminent orator of late Republican Rome, as well as being single-handedly responsible for the persistence of the ancient Greek intellectual tradition in Western culture. Most people don't like Cicero anymore, which is a pity, because despite having issues with political consistency, he was absolutely brilliant and fought to the last for the Republic on the debate floor. During the wars following the death of [[Creator/GaiusJuliusCaesar Caesar]] he essentially gambled on his life and lost: he re-entered the political stage attempting to play [[EmperorAugustus Octavian]] and Mark Antony against each other, which failed when they ended up joining forces in the Second Triumvirate, and was proscribed by Antony in 43 BC. After evading his killers for some time with help from his many sympathizers, he was eventually betrayed later that year. Unable to escape or fight, he acted as a true philosopher and calmly offered his neck to the centurion's sword.

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'''Marcus Tullius Cicero''' (sometimes called "Tully" in later references), 106-43 BC, was a prominent statesmen and the preeminent orator of late Republican Rome, as well as being single-handedly responsible for the persistence of the ancient Greek intellectual tradition in Western culture. Most people don't like Cicero anymore, which is a pity, because despite having issues with political consistency, he was absolutely brilliant and fought to the last for the Republic on the debate floor. During the wars following the death of [[Creator/GaiusJuliusCaesar Caesar]] he essentially gambled on his life and lost: he re-entered the political stage attempting to play [[EmperorAugustus [[UsefulNotes/{{Augustus}} Octavian]] and Mark Antony against each other, which failed when they ended up joining forces in the Second Triumvirate, and was proscribed by Antony in 43 BC. After evading his killers for some time with help from his many sympathizers, he was eventually betrayed later that year. Unable to escape or fight, he acted as a true philosopher and calmly offered his neck to the centurion's sword.
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* WorthyOpponent: There is evidence both Julius Caesar and his nephew Octavian - thence EmperorAugustus - respected Cicero [[http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Lives/Cicero*.html#49.5 as a great man of Rome]].

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* WorthyOpponent: There is evidence both Julius Caesar and his nephew Octavian - thence EmperorAugustus Emperor UsefulNotes/{{Augustus}} - respected Cicero [[http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Lives/Cicero*.html#49.5 as a great man of Rome]].
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* In ''Anime/MazingerZ'', the [[{{Robeast}} Mechanical Beast]] of [[MonsterOfTheWeek episode 83]], Cicero N9, is named after him.



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** Accusing opposing counsel of being gay.[[note]]In Roman times, there was no words like "gay" or "straight". There was "active" (top) and "passive" (bottom). He was calling the counsel "passive", as in, submissive, woman-like.[[/note]]

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** Accusing opposing counsel of being gay.[[note]]In Roman times, there was were no words like "gay" or "straight". There was "active" (top) and "passive" (bottom). He was calling the counsel "passive", as in, submissive, woman-like.[[/note]]
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** Accusing opposing counsel of being gay.

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** Accusing opposing counsel of being gay.[[note]]In Roman times, there was no words like "gay" or "straight". There was "active" (top) and "passive" (bottom). He was calling the counsel "passive", as in, submissive, woman-like.[[/note]]

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** Plutarch relates a whole paragraph of his zingers:
-->'''A man accused of murdering his father with a poisoned cake''': ''"I shall cover you with shame!"''
-->'''Cicero''': ''"I'd rather have the shame than the cake."''

-->'''Lucius Gellius, a very old senator''': ''"This law shall never pass while I am alive!"''
-->'''Cicero''': ''"Gellius does not ask for a long postponement."''



-->''"That, Senators, is what a favour from gangs amounts to. They refrain from murdering someone; then they boast that they have spared him!"''




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* YourMom: OlderThanFeudalism
-->'''Metellus Nepos''': ''"Who is your father?"''[[note]]Basically Nepos' way of saying: "you're not an aristocrat, so zip it."[[/note]]
-->'''Cicero''': ''"In your case, your mother has made the answer to that question rather difficult."''

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Compelling Voice means they literally cannot disobey. This is Charm Person.


* CharmPerson: The leading orator of the ancient world, and arguably one of the greatest public speakers who has ever lived.



* CompellingVoice: The leading orator of the ancient world, and arguably one of the greatest public speakers who has ever lived.
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* AmoralAttorney: Depends on your point of view, but he ''did'' defend a few people - some of them murderers - who he likely knew were guilty.
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Nouveau Riche isn\'t really a good fit for novus homo, especially not in Cicero\'s case. Self Made Man isn\'t perfect either, but I think it\'s better.


* SelfMadeMan: Famous for being a "[[NouveauRiche novus homo]]," lacking the significant lineage of 99% of politicians at the time. He came up through the Roman law courts and was the first member of his family to be elected consul, solely on his talent. Ironically, he caught a lot of flak about this from the entrenched patrician class whose traditional rights he often had to defend against (faux-)populist reformers like Catilina and Caesar.

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* SelfMadeMan: Famous for being a "[[NouveauRiche ''[[SelfMadeMan novus homo]]," homo]]'', lacking the significant lineage of 99% of politicians at the time. He came up through the Roman law courts and was the first member of his family to be elected consul, solely on his talent. Ironically, he caught a lot of flak about this from the entrenched patrician class whose traditional rights he often had to defend against (faux-)populist reformers like Catilina and Caesar.
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I thought the paragraph ended a bit abruptly.


'''Marcus Tullius Cicero''' (sometimes called "Tully" in later references), 106-43 BC, was a prominent statesmen and the preeminent orator of late Republican Rome, as well as being single-handedly responsible for the persistence of the ancient Greek intellectual tradition in Western culture. Most people don't like Cicero anymore, which is a pity, because despite having issues with political consistency, he was absolutely brilliant and fought to the last for the Republic on the debate floor. During the wars following the death of [[Creator/GaiusJuliusCaesar Caesar]] he essentially gambled on his life and lost: he re-entered the political stage attempting to play [[EmperorAugustus Octavian]] and Mark Antony against each other, failed when they ended up joining forces in the Second Triumvirate, and was proscribed by Antony in 43 BC.

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'''Marcus Tullius Cicero''' (sometimes called "Tully" in later references), 106-43 BC, was a prominent statesmen and the preeminent orator of late Republican Rome, as well as being single-handedly responsible for the persistence of the ancient Greek intellectual tradition in Western culture. Most people don't like Cicero anymore, which is a pity, because despite having issues with political consistency, he was absolutely brilliant and fought to the last for the Republic on the debate floor. During the wars following the death of [[Creator/GaiusJuliusCaesar Caesar]] he essentially gambled on his life and lost: he re-entered the political stage attempting to play [[EmperorAugustus Octavian]] and Mark Antony against each other, which failed when they ended up joining forces in the Second Triumvirate, and was proscribed by Antony in 43 BC.BC. After evading his killers for some time with help from his many sympathizers, he was eventually betrayed later that year. Unable to escape or fight, he acted as a true philosopher and calmly offered his neck to the centurion's sword.

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* GracefulLoser: When Cicero's assassin came for him, he found him reclining on a litter reading a scroll. Cicero lowered the scroll to look at his soon-to-be-murderer and calmly said "[[CrowningMomentOfFunny Ah, there you are]]."



* GracefulLoser: When Cicero's assassin came for him, he found him reclining on a litter reading a scroll. Cicero lowered the scroll to look at his soon-to-be-murderer and calmly said "[[CrowningMomentOfFunny Ah, there you are]]."
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* HistoricalHeroUpgrade: Traditionally, he was viewed very fondly by history (most likely because he was ultimately killed unjustly), even though, as demonstrated by the LongList of his CourtroomAntics, he had no regard for logic and reason at all, having practically invented the ChewbaccaDefense, and was thus just as hostile to the idea of rationality and being unbiased as his opponents.
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* CourtroomAntics: Roman legal proceedings in this period were very nearly a spectator sport, and Cicero was practically an all-star quarterback. Antics Cicero got away with in court (copied from TheRomanRepublic page):

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* CourtroomAntics: Roman legal proceedings in this period were very nearly a spectator sport, and Cicero was practically an all-star quarterback. Antics Cicero got away with in court (copied from TheRomanRepublic UsefulNotes/TheRomanRepublic page):


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* Appears in both seasons of HBO's ''{{Rome}}'', played by David Bamber. In the series, the soldier who assassinates him turns out to be [[BeenThereShapedHistory Titus Pullo]].

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* Appears in both seasons of HBO's ''{{Rome}}'', ''Series/{{Rome}}'', played by David Bamber. In the series, the soldier who assassinates him turns out to be [[BeenThereShapedHistory Titus Pullo]].
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Rename


* Appears in both seasons of HBO's ''{{Rome}}'', played by David Bamber. In the series, the soldier who assassinates him turns out to be [[TheGump Titus Pullo]].

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* Appears in both seasons of HBO's ''{{Rome}}'', played by David Bamber. In the series, the soldier who assassinates him turns out to be [[TheGump [[BeenThereShapedHistory Titus Pullo]].

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* CourtroomAntics: Roman legal proceedings in this period were very nearly a spectator sport, and Cicero was practically an all-star quarterback.

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* CourtroomAntics: Roman legal proceedings in this period were very nearly a spectator sport, and Cicero was practically an all-star quarterback. Antics Cicero got away with in court (copied from TheRomanRepublic page):
** Calling the prosecution's witness, who was an attempted murder victim, a shameless slut, whore, and murderess, and then saying he wasn't going to call her a shameless slut, whore, and murderess, and then [[RefugeInAudacity calling her a shameless slut, whore, and murderess repeatedly throughout the rest of his speech.]]
** Accusing a political rival of incest in a completely unrelated case.
** Pretending to be Rome personified (it's complicated).
** Pretending to be a long dead Roman Consul (again, it's complicated). Incidentally, he was pretending to be the Consul so he could call the attempted murder victim above a shameless slut, whore, and murderess. And being quite graphic about it.
** Telling the judge he was going to ignore all courtroom procedure for the citizenship application he was arguing and [[ItMakesSenseInContext spend the next hour or so discussing Greek literature]].
** Giving speaking tips to opposing counsel.
** Complimenting opposing counsel on his skill -- because the counsel was once one of his students.
** Accusing opposing counsel of being gay.
** Accusing the jury of being corrupt (although this ''was'' often the case).
** Discussing fashion in the middle of a murder trial.
** Discussing town planning in the middle of a murder trial.
** Discussing highway maintenance in the middle of a murder trial.
** Discussing the inconvenient placement of Public Holidays in the middle of a murder trial.
** It is worth noting, after reading the above, that Cicero lost only one case. He lost that case because the court was filled with heavily armed, menacing looking men wanting a conviction and staring meaningfully at the jury throughout proceedings.
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* CourtroomAntics: Roman legal proceedings in this period were very nearly a spectator sport, and Cicero was practically an all-star quarterback. See the trope page for details.

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* CourtroomAntics: Roman legal proceedings in this period were very nearly a spectator sport, and Cicero was practically an all-star quarterback. See the trope page for details.
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* CourtroomAntics: Roman legal proceedings in this period were very nearly a spectator sport.

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* CourtroomAntics: Roman legal proceedings in this period were very nearly a spectator sport.sport, and Cicero was practically an all-star quarterback. See the trope page for details.
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* DeadpanSnarker: Notorious for being unable to keep his mouth shut.

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* DeadpanSnarker: Notorious for being unable to keep his mouth shut. Octavian respected him, but didn't find it hard to let Mark Antony have his RoaringRampageOfRevenge upon him when Cicero joked about Octavian "We'll give him honors and decorations -- and then a kick downstairs."
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* PerfectlyCromulentWord: Invented an awful lot of them. Of course, when you're trying to import a discipline with an entirely foreign vocabulary, you pretty much have to do this at some point.

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* PerfectlyCromulentWord: Invented an awful lot of them. For instance, he is the reason "virtue" is a word. Of course, when you're trying to import a discipline with an entirely foreign vocabulary, you pretty much have to do this at some point.
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->''Non nobis solum nati sumus ortusque nostri partem patria vindicat, partem amici. (We are not born for ourselves alone; our country, our friends have a share in us.)''

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->''Non nobis solum nati sumus ortusque nostri partem patria vindicat, partem amici. (We are not born for ourselves alone; our country, our friends have a share in us.)'' )''



'''Marcus Tullius Cicero''' (sometimes called "Tully" in later references), 106-43 BC, was a prominent statesmen and the preeminent orator of late Republican Rome, as well as being single-handedly responsible for the persistence of the ancient Greek intellectual tradition in Western culture. Most people don't like Cicero anymore, which is a pity, because despite having issues with political consistency, he was absolutely brilliant and fought to the last for the Republic on the debate floor. During the wars following the death of [[GaiusJuliusCaesar Caesar]] he essentially gambled on his life and lost: he re-entered the political stage attempting to play [[EmperorAugustus Octavian]] and Mark Antony against each other, failed when they ended up joining forces in the Second Triumvirate, and was proscribed by Antony in 43 BC.

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'''Marcus Tullius Cicero''' (sometimes called "Tully" in later references), 106-43 BC, was a prominent statesmen and the preeminent orator of late Republican Rome, as well as being single-handedly responsible for the persistence of the ancient Greek intellectual tradition in Western culture. Most people don't like Cicero anymore, which is a pity, because despite having issues with political consistency, he was absolutely brilliant and fought to the last for the Republic on the debate floor. During the wars following the death of [[GaiusJuliusCaesar [[Creator/GaiusJuliusCaesar Caesar]] he essentially gambled on his life and lost: he re-entered the political stage attempting to play [[EmperorAugustus Octavian]] and Mark Antony against each other, failed when they ended up joining forces in the Second Triumvirate, and was proscribed by Antony in 43 BC.



* DeadGuyOnDisplay: Antony had him murdered because Cicero made a series of speeches against him. His head and his hands (which had penned the speeches) were cut off and displayed in the Forum Romanum.

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* DeadGuyOnDisplay: Antony had him murdered because Cicero made a series of speeches against him. His head and his hands (which had penned the speeches) were cut off and displayed in the Forum Romanum.



* HeroicBSOD: Grieved heavily when his beloved daughter Tullia died after giving birth to her second son.

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* HeroicBSOD: Grieved heavily when his beloved daughter Tullia died after giving birth to her second son.
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->''Non nobis solum nati sumus ortusque nostri partem patria vindicat, partem amici. (We are not born for ourselves alone; our country, our friends have a share in us.)''
->-- '''Cicero''', De Officiis

'''Marcus Tullius Cicero''' (sometimes called "Tully" in later references), 106-43 BC, was a prominent statesmen and the preeminent orator of late Republican Rome, as well as being single-handedly responsible for the persistence of the ancient Greek intellectual tradition in Western culture. Most people don't like Cicero anymore, which is a pity, because despite having issues with political consistency, he was absolutely brilliant and fought to the last for the Republic on the debate floor. During the wars following the death of [[GaiusJuliusCaesar Caesar]] he essentially gambled on his life and lost: he re-entered the political stage attempting to play [[EmperorAugustus Octavian]] and Mark Antony against each other, failed when they ended up joining forces in the Second Triumvirate, and was proscribed by Antony in 43 BC.
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!!Cicero provides examples of:

* ArchEnemy: To Mark Antony.
** Not so much with Julius Caesar. They tended to be on different sides of a debate - especially during the civil war - but they shared a grudging respect for each other. Cicero was genuinely surprised by the assassination of Caesar.
* BilingualBonus: His work is responsible for bringing many abstract philosophical terms from Greek into Latin, as well as for bringing abstract philosophy from Greece to Rome.
* CausticCritic: Whoo, boy.
* CourtroomAntics: Roman legal proceedings in this period were very nearly a spectator sport.
* CompellingVoice: The leading orator of the ancient world, and arguably one of the greatest public speakers who has ever lived.
* DeadGuyOnDisplay: Antony had him murdered because Cicero made a series of speeches against him. His head and his hands (which had penned the speeches) were cut off and displayed in the Forum Romanum.
* DeadpanSnarker: Notorious for being unable to keep his mouth shut.
* DownerEnding: Whether you like him or not, Cicero was assassinated for speaking out.
* HeroicBSOD: Grieved heavily when his beloved daughter Tullia died after giving birth to her second son.
* HeterosexualLifePartners: with Atticus.
* PerfectlyCromulentWord: Invented an awful lot of them. Of course, when you're trying to import a discipline with an entirely foreign vocabulary, you pretty much have to do this at some point.
* GracefulLoser: When Cicero's assassin came for him, he found him reclining on a litter reading a scroll. Cicero lowered the scroll to look at his soon-to-be-murderer and calmly said "[[CrowningMomentOfFunny Ah, there you are]]."
* TheReasonYouSuckSpeech: One of the great masters of this trope. His orations against Catilina and the Philippics he wrote against Mark Antony are some of the best examples of this.
* SelfMadeMan: Famous for being a "[[NouveauRiche novus homo]]," lacking the significant lineage of 99% of politicians at the time. He came up through the Roman law courts and was the first member of his family to be elected consul, solely on his talent. Ironically, he caught a lot of flak about this from the entrenched patrician class whose traditional rights he often had to defend against (faux-)populist reformers like Catilina and Caesar.
* SimpleCountryLawyer: Part of his technique was the Roman version of this: like many ''novi homines'', he came from one of the smaller towns in Latium (in his case, Arpinium) that had been granted Roman citizenship relatively recently. And he did work his way up the legal profession to Consulship and then the Senate.
* WorthyOpponent: There is evidence both Julius Caesar and his nephew Octavian - thence EmperorAugustus - respected Cicero [[http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Lives/Cicero*.html#49.5 as a great man of Rome]].
** After Antony fell to Octavian, the first Consul that Octavian appointed to serve with him was [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicero_Minor Cicero's son]]. It was Cicero the Younger who announced Marc Antony's death at Actium, and he later worked to remove Antony's entire family from political power, avenging his father's death with Augustus' approval.
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!!Cicero in Fiction:

* Appears in both seasons of HBO's ''{{Rome}}'', played by David Bamber. In the series, the soldier who assassinates him turns out to be [[TheGump Titus Pullo]].
* Cicero turns up in Steven Saylor's ''RomaSubRosa'' series, employing protagonist Gordianus for various reasons, including to dig up information to help his defense of Sextus Roscius and to keep an eye on Catilina during the consular elections.
* Colleen [=McCullough=]'s ''MastersOfRome'' series follows Cicero's career along with many other prominent players in the late Republic.
* Robert Harris' ''{{Imperium}}'' trilogy chronicles the life of Cicero from the perspective of his slave/scribe Tiro.
* He briefly appears in Shakespeare's play ''Theatre/JuliusCaesar''. The conspirators also consider including him, but Brutus rejects it, saying that Cicero won't support something that wasn't his idea.
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