History Comicbook / TheCloneSaga

13th Aug '16 5:44:02 PM CaptainMar-Vell92
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* DownerEnding: Ben dies, Peter and Mary Jane lose their baby, Osborn/Goblin is still at large and Peter decides to quit being Spider-Man (for the moment).
9th Aug '16 1:34:45 PM Ripburger
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[[AllForNothing In the end, for the most part nothing was changed.]]

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[[AllForNothing [[ResetButton In the end, for the most part nothing was changed.]]
9th Aug '16 1:32:50 PM Ripburger
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'''[[AC:The Seventies]]'''

The 1970s Clone Saga follows up on the death of Gwen Stacy, and is summarized with panels [[http://www.asitecalledfred.com/comics101/69.html here]]. It begins with the introduction of a new villain, the Jackal, followed by the money shot: Gwen Stacy, apparently back from the dead. As you might guess from the article, [[CloningBlues she's a clone]]. Eventually, the Jackal is [[DramaticUnmask unmasked]] as Miles Warren, Pete and Gwen's biology professor, who lusted in his heart for Gwen and blamed Spidey for her death. In the climax of the story, a clone of Spider-Man is created, and the two of them have to duke it out to see who is the real one, as only the true Spider-Man can defuse a bomb. In the end, the Jackal [[HeelRealization has an epiphany]] and stops the bomb himself at the cost of [[RedemptionEqualsDeath his own life]]. Additionally, one of the Spider-Men is killed in the blast. The surviving one gets tested to see if he's the original or not, but decides he [[AmbiguousCloneEnding doesn't want to read the results]]. This comes back to bite him.

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'''[[AC:The Seventies]]'''

-----

The 1970s '''1970s''' Clone Saga follows up on the death of Gwen Stacy, and is summarized with panels [[http://www.asitecalledfred.com/comics101/69.html here]]. It begins with the introduction of a new villain, the Jackal, followed by the a money shot: Gwen Stacy, apparently back from the dead. As you might guess have guessed from the article, [[CloningBlues she's a clone]]. clone. Eventually, the Jackal is [[DramaticUnmask unmasked]] as Miles Warren, Pete and Gwen's biology professor, Miles Warren, who lusted in his heart for Gwen and blamed Spidey for her death. In the climax of the story, a clone of Spider-Man is created, and the two of them have to duke it out to see who is the real one, as only the true Spider-Man can defuse a bomb. In the end, the Jackal [[HeelRealization has an epiphany]] and stops the bomb himself at the cost of [[RedemptionEqualsDeath his own life]]. Additionally, one of the Spider-Men is killed in the blast.one. The surviving one gets tested to see if he's the original or not, but decides he [[AmbiguousCloneEnding doesn't want to read the results]]. This comes back to bite him.



'''[[AC:The Nineties and beyond]]'''

The nineties Clone Saga opens with the canon reappearance of the Spider-Man clone--dubbed the "Scarlet Spider"--apparently not ''[[NotQuiteDead quite]]'' dead when Peter disposed of his body, who has built a life for himself and taken up the name Ben Reilly (after his [[DeadGuyJunior Uncle Ben]] and Aunt May's maiden name, respectively). The intricacies of this story, including some reflections from ''Clone Saga'' co-writer Glenn Greenberg, can be found on the ''[[http://lifeofreillyarchives.blogspot.com/2008/03/introduction-and-update.html Life of Reilly]]'' blog (which may be a book someday).

A brief summary: The Jackal comes back and starts playing mind-games with both Peter and Ben. A new villain, Kaine, is introduced and is eventually revealed to be yet another clone of Spider-Man; in fact, the first one made. After systematically bumping off the Spider-villains to prove his superiority (even smashing the ''Web of Spider-Man #124'' logo to pieces and replacing it with his own), Kaine inexplicably turns "good" in [[NinetiesAntiHero a bald-faced attempt]] to make him the star. Mary Jane gets pregnant. Aunt May and ComicBook/DoctorOctopus die. New villains are introduced such as Spidercide, Judas Traveller, Scrier, and the ''[[LegacyCharacter second]]'' Dr. Octopus. The Jackal also dies, but not before it is "proved" that Peter Parker is the clone and that Ben Reilly was the original Spider-Man. Though initially crushed by the news, Peter decides to hand the mantle of Spider-Man over to Ben so he can start a family. Fans and [[WriterRevolt writers]] united in an uproar, and an AuthorsSavingThrow was developed (there were a few built in there originally, but were never used as intended), revealing that Peter really was the original Spider-Man and the whole thing was manipulated by ComicBook/NormanOsborn, also back from the dead. In the end, Ben Reilly died in a manner that [[TheUnreveal explicitly showed he was a clone]], the Green Goblin returns to being Spider-Man's archenemy, Kaine and the Clone Gwen [[LongBusTrip disappear again]], and Aunt May and Dr. Octopus ''also'' come back from the dead because [--mumble mumble--] Oh, and Mary Jane miscarries (or does she? Read ''ComicBook/SpiderGirl'' for more details).

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'''[[AC:The Nineties and beyond]]'''

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The nineties '''1990s''' Clone Saga opens with the canon reappearance of the Spider-Man clone--dubbed the "Scarlet Spider"--apparently not ''[[NotQuiteDead quite]]'' dead when Peter disposed of his body, who Spider"--who has built a life for himself and taken up the name Ben Reilly (after his [[DeadGuyJunior Uncle Ben]] and Aunt May's maiden name, respectively). The intricacies of this story, including some reflections from ''Clone Saga'' co-writer Glenn Greenberg, can be found on the ''[[http://lifeofreillyarchives.blogspot.com/2008/03/introduction-and-update.html Life of Reilly]]'' blog (which may be a book someday).

respectively).

A brief summary: summary ''*deep breath*'': The Jackal comes back and starts playing mind-games mind games with both Peter and Ben. A new villain, Kaine, is introduced and is eventually revealed to be yet another clone of Spider-Man; in fact, [[PsychoPrototype the first one made. made]]. After systematically bumping off the Spider-villains to prove his superiority (even smashing the ''Web of Spider-Man #124'' logo to pieces and replacing it with his own), Kaine inexplicably turns "good" in [[NinetiesAntiHero a bald-faced attempt]] ham-fisted attempt to make him the star.a star]]. Mary Jane gets pregnant. Aunt May and ComicBook/DoctorOctopus die. New villains are introduced introduced, such as Spidercide, Judas Traveller, Scrier, and the ''[[LegacyCharacter second]]'' Dr. Octopus. a ''[[DistaffCounterpart female]]'' Doc Ock. The Jackal also dies, but not before it is "proved" 'proven' that Peter Parker is the clone and that Ben Reilly was the original Spider-Man. Spider-Man all along. Though initially crushed by the news, Peter decides to [[LegacyCharacter hand the mantle of Spider-Man Spider-Man]] over to Ben so that he and M.J. can start a family. family.

Fans and [[WriterRevolt writers]] united in an uproar, and an AuthorsSavingThrow was developed (there were a few built in there originally, but were never used as intended), revealing that Peter really was the original Spider-Man and the whole thing was manipulated orchestrated by ComicBook/NormanOsborn, also '''also''' back from the dead. In the end, Ben Reilly died in a manner that [[TheUnreveal explicitly showed he was a clone]], the Green Goblin returns to being Spider-Man's archenemy, Kaine and the Clone Gwen [[LongBusTrip disappear again]], and Aunt May and Dr. Octopus ''also'' '''''also''''' come back from the dead because [--mumble mumble--] Oh, and Mary Jane miscarries (or does she? Read ''ComicBook/SpiderGirl'' for more details).



The intricacies of this story, including some reflections from ''Clone Saga'' co-writer Glenn Greenberg, can be found on the ''[[http://lifeofreillyarchives.blogspot.com/2008/03/introduction-and-update.html Life of Reilly]]'' blog, which might be a book someday.

!!Retcons and re-tellings



* HeelRelization: In the end, the Jackal has an epiphany and stops the bomb himself at the cost of his own life. Additionally, one of the Spider-Men is killed in the blast.



* NeverFoundTheBody: Inverted with the clone Spider-Man, whose body was thrown down a chimney.

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* NeverFoundTheBody: Inverted Later inverted with the clone Spider-Man, whose body was thrown down a chimney. Apparently he was not ''[[NotQuiteDead quite]]'' dead when Peter disposed of his body,



* RedemptionEqualsDeath: Granted, it was a problem the Jackal ''started'', but..

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* RedemptionEqualsDeath: Granted, it was a problem the Jackal ''started'', but..but...
17th Jul '16 7:19:19 PM Discar
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* OutsideContextVillain: Judas Traveller and Scrier. Apparently no-one really knew what was going on with them, and while [[WhatCouldHaveBeen ideas were proposed]]--such as Traveller being a FallenAngel and Scrier being Mephisto--ultimately Traveller [[MasterOfIllusion was just an illusionist]] who bought into his own hype and started believing he could actually control time, and Scrier [[CollectiveIdentity was really a group of individuals in a cult who all wear the same masks]], apart from the lead Scrier, who was Norman Osborn himself...got all that?

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* OutsideContextVillain: OutsideContextProblem: Judas Traveller and Scrier. Apparently no-one really knew what was going on with them, and while [[WhatCouldHaveBeen ideas were proposed]]--such as Traveller being a FallenAngel and Scrier being Mephisto--ultimately Traveller [[MasterOfIllusion was just an illusionist]] who bought into his own hype and started believing he could actually control time, and Scrier [[CollectiveIdentity was really a group of individuals in a cult who all wear the same masks]], apart from the lead Scrier, who was Norman Osborn himself...got all that?
26th Jun '16 5:49:22 PM Anicomicgeek
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* FollowTheLeader: The debut of Kaine follows the wave of "[[AntiHeroSubstitute replace-the-hero]]" comics started by ''ComicBook/TheDeathOfSuperman''. Additionally, the "Maximum Clonage: Alpha and Omega" one-shots and ''ComicBook/ScarletSpider'' titles were inspired by similar gimmicks in ''ComicBook/AgeOfApocalypse''.
22nd Jun '16 5:42:39 AM MCanter89
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''The Clone Saga'' (or ''Spider-Clone Saga'') is the name of two ''ComicBook/SpiderMan'' story arcs, one from the 1970s and another running from 1994 to 1996, [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin both involving Spider-Man and clones]]. The second story, which is a sequel for all intents and purposes, is better remembered for being one of more the contentious Spider-Man stories -- ranked up there with ''[[ComicBook/JMSSpiderMan Sins Past]]'' and ''ComicBook/OneMoreDay'' -- and the only time in history when the words "'''''Maximum Cloneage!'''''" could be [[DorkAge printed unironically.]] Intended to wrap up in less than a year, the comics sold well enough that the writers were 'encouraged' to prolong the series as long as possible. This led to some changes to the storyline that ultimately proved [[ArcFatigue very, very, long.]]

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''The Clone Saga'' (or ''Spider-Clone Saga'') is the name of two ''ComicBook/SpiderMan'' story arcs, one from the 1970s and another running from 1994 to 1996, [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin both involving Spider-Man and clones]]. The second story, which is a sequel for all intents and purposes, is better remembered for being one of more the contentious Spider-Man stories -- ranked up there with ''[[ComicBook/JMSSpiderMan Sins Past]]'' and ''ComicBook/OneMoreDay'' -- and the only time in history when the words "'''''Maximum Cloneage!'''''" could be [[DorkAge printed unironically.]] unironically]]. Intended to wrap up in less than a year, the comics sold well enough that the writers were 'encouraged' to prolong the series as long as possible. This led to some changes to the storyline that ultimately proved [[ArcFatigue very, very, long.]]
very long]].



In 2009, Tom [=DeFalco=] and Howard Mackie--two people involved in the second Saga--reunited for a mini-series called ''Spider-Man: The Clone Saga'', a "director's cut" and streamlined version of the story, with the supposed intent of telling the story as "originally intended". Some fans are crying [[LyingCreator Lying Creators]], or at least, not-entirely-accurate creators, since ''Life of Reilly'' indicates that [[CreativeDifferences many people intended the Clone Saga to be different things]]. The miniseries ends with [[spoiler: Peter and MJ still married, and Ben, baby May, ''and'' Aunt May alive and well,]] though it does also use some [[WhatCouldHaveBeen ideas proposed for the ending of the Saga]], such as [[spoiler: Harry Osborn]] being the mastermind, albeit in an altered form than proposed.

to:

In 2009, Tom [=DeFalco=] and Howard Mackie--two people involved in the second Saga--reunited for a mini-series called ''Spider-Man: The Clone Saga'', a "director's cut" and streamlined version of the story, with the supposed intent of telling the story as "originally intended". Some fans are crying [[LyingCreator Lying Creators]], {{Lying Creator}}s, or at least, not-entirely-accurate creators, since ''Life of Reilly'' indicates that [[CreativeDifferences many people intended the Clone Saga to be different things]]. The miniseries ends with [[spoiler: Peter [[spoiler:Peter and MJ still married, and Ben, baby May, ''and'' Aunt May alive and well,]] though it does also use some [[WhatCouldHaveBeen ideas proposed for the ending of the Saga]], such as [[spoiler: Harry [[spoiler:Harry Osborn]] being the mastermind, albeit in an altered form than proposed.



* NakedOnArrival: The Gwen Stacy clone, and later, all future clones who emerge from their pods. (The Jackal included.)

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* NakedOnArrival: The Gwen Stacy clone, and later, all future clones who emerge from their pods. pods (The Jackal included.)included).



* {{Revenge}}: The Jackal's motivation; he blames Spidey for not saving Gwen Stacy. Nevermind that it was the Green Goblin's fault...

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* {{Revenge}}: The Jackal's motivation; he blames Spidey for not saving Gwen Stacy. Nevermind that it was the Green Goblin's fault...fault…



[[folder:Clone Saga Crossover Event (1994-96)]]
* AffectionateParody: ''Spider Man: 101 Ways To End The Clone Saga'', a comic about Marvel writers and editors trying to find a way to pull off an AuthorsSavingThrow in increasingly humorous ways... [[SelfDeprecation and it's written by Marvel's writers and editors]].

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[[folder:Clone Saga Crossover Event (1994-96)]]
(1994–96)]]
* AffectionateParody: ''Spider Man: 101 Ways To End The Clone Saga'', a comic about Marvel writers and editors trying to find a way to pull off an AuthorsSavingThrow in increasingly humorous ways... ways… [[SelfDeprecation and it's written by Marvel's writers and editors]].



* ChronicBackstabbingDisorder: The Jackal, and the TooDumbToLive characters in this IdiotPlot don't remember his constant betraying ''30 minutes after he does so.''

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* ChronicBackstabbingDisorder: The Jackal, and the TooDumbToLive characters in this IdiotPlot don't remember his constant betraying ''30 minutes after he does so.''so''.



** Both the Grim Hunter (Kraven's first son) and Doctor Octopus were killed early on in order to establish Kaine as a powerful threat. The former's creator Howard Mackie offered up the Hunter because he reportedly didn't know where to take him, and he has stayed dead. [[ComicBookDeath Ock, however...]].

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** Both the Grim Hunter (Kraven's first son) and Doctor Octopus were killed early on in order to establish Kaine as a powerful threat. The former's creator Howard Mackie offered up the Hunter because he reportedly didn't know where to take him, and he has stayed dead. [[ComicBookDeath Ock, however...]].however…]].



* FirstGirlWins: Janine/Elizabeth Tyne, [[spoiler: who is Ben's babymama in ''ComicBook/SpiderGirl'']].
* FleetingDemographicRule: The ultimate result, more or less. Suspicious test results, a Gwen Stacy clone still alive out there, somewhere...
-->'''Glenn Greenberg''': ''The status quo, at least in that regard, is ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT from the way it was in 1975 when the original clone story line ended.''

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* FirstGirlWins: Janine/Elizabeth Tyne, [[spoiler: who [[spoiler:who is Ben's babymama in ''ComicBook/SpiderGirl'']].
* FleetingDemographicRule: The ultimate result, more or less. Suspicious test results, a Gwen Stacy clone still alive out there, somewhere...
somewhere…
-->'''Glenn Greenberg''': ''The The status quo, at least in that regard, is ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT from the way it was in 1975 when the original clone story line ended.''



* [[ShooOutTheClowns Shoo Out The Clones...er, Clowns!]]: Kaine spends his early appearances doing this, "clearing the deck" for new rogues with his unbeatable Mark of Kane finisher.

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* [[ShooOutTheClowns Shoo Out The Clones...Clones… er, Clowns!]]: Kaine spends his early appearances doing this, "clearing the deck" for new rogues with his unbeatable Mark of Kane finisher.



[[folder: 2009-2010 Miniseries]]

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[[folder: 2009-2010 [[folder:2009–2010 Miniseries]]



* FakingTheDead: [[spoiler: Harry before the story.]]

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* FakingTheDead: [[spoiler: Harry [[spoiler:Harry before the story.]]
21st May '16 10:40:39 PM Anicomicgeek
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* ArcWelding: The murders Kaine committed happened that Peter was later blamed for was at the same time as the events of ''ComicBook/KravensLastHunt'', hence Peter didn't have an alibi when those murders happened unless he blew his secret identity.
1st May '16 8:34:15 AM Kazuto
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Elements from the Clone Sage were twice integrated into ''WesternAnimation/SpiderManTheAnimatedSeries'', once with Mary Jane being the one cloned and bringing back Hydro-Man as a foe and a second time for the final story where a Spider-Man from another universe went insane from the events and bonded with the Carnage symbiote in an attempt to destroy reality. A version of the Clone Saga for the Marvel's Ultimate line, the Ultimate Clone Saga was also created. This one takes elements of the previous two, mostly the former.

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Elements from the Clone Sage Saga were twice integrated into ''WesternAnimation/SpiderManTheAnimatedSeries'', once with Mary Jane being the one cloned and bringing back Hydro-Man as a foe and a second time for the final story where a Spider-Man from another universe went insane from the events and bonded with the Carnage symbiote in an attempt to destroy reality. A version of the Clone Saga for the Marvel's Ultimate line, the Ultimate Clone Saga was also created. This one takes elements of the previous two, mostly the former.
26th Mar '16 10:25:04 AM JudasZala
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[[caption-width-right:260:''[[WeirdAlYankovic I think I'm a clone now\\

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[[caption-width-right:260:''[[WeirdAlYankovic [[caption-width-right:260:''[[Music/WeirdAlYankovic I think I'm a clone now\\
15th Dec '15 9:45:32 PM hamonrye
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* ResetButton: And many fans view it as an outright AssPull.

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* ResetButton: And many fans view it as an outright AssPull.In 1995, Aunt May dies of a heart attack (but only after revealing that she always knew Peter Parker was Spider-Man). This too was poignant. In 1998, Norman admits to kidnapping Aunt May, replacing her with a genetically altered elderly actress [!] and keeping the real May alive in a warehouse for absolutely no damn reason.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Comicbook.TheCloneSaga