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If it happened off panel, was it shown? Revealed makes more sense


* NonActionGuy: Initially, he mostly just drove the Crimson Avenger to where he needed to go, and moved unconscious bodies and such when necessary, although he was shown to have knocked out one thug off-panel to stop him from fleeing. It took the revamp to show Wing taking a more active fight against crime.

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* NonActionGuy: Initially, he mostly just drove the Crimson Avenger to where he needed to go, and moved unconscious bodies and such when necessary, although he was shown revealed to have knocked out one thug off-panel to stop him from fleeing. It took the revamp to show Wing taking a more active fight against crime.

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* WhyAreYouNotMySon: His friendship with Ted Knight had shades of this, as Sylvester was interested both in science and in becoming a superhero, while Jack Knight was neither.

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* WhyAreYouNotMySon: His friendship with Ted Knight had shades of this, as Sylvester was interested both in science and in becoming a superhero, while Jack Knight was neither.(Ted's actual son) had no interest in either at the time.



* BadassNormal: Like everyone else on the team, but he's particularly noted for his strength and endurance.



* TrappedInThePast: When the Soldiers were scattered across spacetime he ended up in Ancient Egypt where he was enslaved.

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* TrappedInThePast: When the Soldiers were scattered across spacetime he ended up in Ancient Egypt where he was enslaved.enslaved and forced to help build pyramids.


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* OfficialCouple: During World War II, he married Danette Riley (aka Firebrand II). Unfortunately, shortly after he was sent back in time by the Nebula Man, she was killed by the Dragon King.
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* InsistentTerminology: He wasn't Sylvester's sidekick, he was his ''bodyguard''.
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* KidHero: Started his career at roughly 16-17.

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* KidHero: Started his career at roughly 16-17.an age which varies depending on the writer but definitely under 17.
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* ClothesMakeTheSuperman: In the JSA, Sylvester gained possession of the Cosmic Converter Belt designed by Ted Knight aka Starman. This belt gave him the ability to [[{{Flight}} fly]], [[BarrierWarrior create forcefields]], and [[HandBlast fire energy blasts]]. After forming ComicBook/InfinityInc he changed his superhero name to Skyman, and chaned his costume as well.

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* ClothesMakeTheSuperman: In the JSA, Sylvester gained possession of the Cosmic Converter Belt designed by Ted Knight aka Starman. This belt gave him the ability to [[{{Flight}} fly]], [[BarrierWarrior create forcefields]], and [[HandBlast fire energy blasts]]. After forming ComicBook/InfinityInc he changed his superhero name to Skyman, and chaned changed his costume as well.

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* RetCon: Originally the [=SSoV=] were on Earth-2, and so had the Earth-2 versions of Green Arrow and Speedy as members. With the Crisis on Infinite Earths, Earth-2 was no more, so Wing (the Crimson Avenger's sidekick) and Stuff the Chinatown Kid (The Vigilante's sidekick) gained the status of full-fledged members of the team to make seven.
* TrappedInThePast: The defeat of Nebula Man scattered them across time and space, and we know that most of them ended up in the in past with no way back.

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* RetCon: {{Retcon}}: Originally the [=SSoV=] were on Earth-2, and so had the Earth-2 versions of Green Arrow and Speedy as members. With the Crisis on Infinite Earths, Earth-2 was no more, so Wing (the Crimson Avenger's sidekick) and Stuff the Chinatown Kid (The Vigilante's sidekick) gained the status of full-fledged members of the team to make seven.
seven. ''Stargirl Spring Break Special'' would restore Ollie and Roy's ties to the group, albeit with the explaination that they were sent back in time to the Golden Age for a while thanks to a fight with the Clock King.
* TrappedInThePast: TrappedInThePast:
**
The defeat of Nebula Man scattered them across time and space, and we know that most of them ended up in the in past with no way back.back.
** As mentioned above, this was used to restore Green Arrow and Speedy, who were made into "present day only" characters, to the group's history: the Clock King sent Ollie and Roy back to the Golden Age during a fight with him.
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** His military service as mentioned above comes from two different ''Secret Origins'' tales. The Lincoln Brigade one came first in 1985. The latter ''Secret Origins'' tale (2001) has him spending Lee time in Nanda Parbat and having a vision of Superman's death, but doesn't fit neatly into his pre-established timeline, which had him being born in 1913, so if he was in World War I, the lie about his age was a ''heck'' of a whopper. The 2001 story tries to justify this by having him jump forward in time ten years, but that makes even ''less'' sense.

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** His military service as mentioned above comes from two different ''Secret Origins'' tales. The Lincoln Brigade one came first in 1985. The latter ''Secret Origins'' tale (2001) has him spending Lee time in Nanda Parbat during WWII and having receiving a vision of Superman's death, but doesn't fit neatly into his pre-established timeline, which had him being born in 1913, so if he was in World War I, the lie about his age was a ''heck'' of a whopper. The 2001 story tries to justify this by having him jump forward in time ten years, but that makes even ''less'' sense.

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Not a continuity error, if he was not affected by bullets and then later hurt by a bullet without explanation, or struck in the head without being affected, but later it did affect him, those would be continuity errors. Still a question that could be asked but not a continuity issue


[[quoteright:273:https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/shiningknight.jpg]]
Sir Justin, a knight of King Arthur, was given by Merlin a suit of magical armor that would protect him from all harm, and a magical sword that would cut through anything. Merlin also gave Justin’s horse wings and the ability to fly. Justin was frozen for centuries and revived in the 1940s, where he applies his honor as a knight to fighting crime in the present day.

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[[quoteright:273:https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/shiningknight.jpg]]
jpg]] Sir Justin, Justin was a knight of King Arthur, was given by Arthur. Merlin gave him a suit of magical armor that would protect him from all harm, and a magical sword that would cut through anything. anything. Merlin also gave Justin’s horse wings and the ability to fly. Justin was frozen for centuries and revived in the 1940s, where he applies his honor as a knight to fighting crime in the present day.



* SeriesContinuityError: The Shining Knight's magic armor protects him from bullets in early stories. Later on, he's knocked unconscious from blows to the head. How is this possible?
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* ClothesMakeTheSuperman: In the JSA, Sylvester gained possession of the Cosmic Converter Belt designed by Ted Knight aka Starman. This belt gave him the ability to [[{{Flight}} fly]], [[BarrierWarrior create forcefields]], and [[HandBlast fire energy blasts]].

to:

* ClothesMakeTheSuperman: In the JSA, Sylvester gained possession of the Cosmic Converter Belt designed by Ted Knight aka Starman. This belt gave him the ability to [[{{Flight}} fly]], [[BarrierWarrior create forcefields]], and [[HandBlast fire energy blasts]]. After forming ComicBook/InfinityInc he changed his superhero name to Skyman, and chaned his costume as well.



* KilledOffForReal: Skyman shared in many adventures with Infinity Inc. until the fateful day when Solomon Grundy used the insensate form of the poisonous Mister Bones to burn Sylvester's face, killing him.

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* KilledOffForReal: in his Skyman identity, he shared in many adventures with Infinity Inc. until the fateful day when Solomon Grundy used the insensate form of the poisonous Mister Bones to burn Sylvester's face, killing him.
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* NonActionGuy: Initially, he mostly just drove the Crimson Avenger to where he needed to go, and moved unconscious bodies and such when necessary, although he was shown to have knocked out one thug off-panel to stop him from fleeing. It took the revamp to show Wing taking an more active fight against crime.

to:

* NonActionGuy: Initially, he mostly just drove the Crimson Avenger to where he needed to go, and moved unconscious bodies and such when necessary, although he was shown to have knocked out one thug off-panel to stop him from fleeing. It took the revamp to show Wing taking an a more active fight against crime.

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----





















* RetCon:

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* RetCon:{{Retcon}}:



** Following ''Comicbook/DarkNightsDeathMetal'', in the ''Stargirl Spring Break Special'', Ollie and Roy’s status as members were restored, albeit with it stated they’d gone back in time to the Golden Age for a while thanks to an encounter with a villain.

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** Following ''Comicbook/DarkNightsDeathMetal'', in the ''Stargirl Spring Break Special'', Ollie and Roy’s Roy's status as members were restored, albeit with it stated they’d they'd gone back in time to the Golden Age for a while thanks to an encounter with a villain.the Clock King.






* RetCon:

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* RetCon:{{Retcon}}:



** Following ''Comicbook/DarkNightsDeathMetal'', in the ''Stargirl Spring Break Special'', Ollie and Roy’s status as members were restored, albeit with it stated they’d gone back in time to the Golden Age for a while thanks to an encounter with a villain.

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** Following ''Comicbook/DarkNightsDeathMetal'', in the ''Stargirl Spring Break Special'', Ollie and Roy’s Roy's status as members were restored, albeit with it stated they’d they'd gone back in time to the Golden Age for a while thanks to an encounter with a villain.the Clock King.


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* RetCon: After the Crisis on Infinite Earths, history changed so that Green Arrow and Speedy were no longer alive during the 1940s. They were replaced by Wing (Crimson Avenger's sidekick) and Stuff (Vigilante's sidekick) having always been considered full-fledged members, bringing the number back to seven.

to:

* RetCon: RetCon:
**
After the Crisis on Infinite Earths, history changed so that Green Arrow and Speedy were no longer alive during the 1940s. They were replaced by Wing (Crimson Avenger's sidekick) and Stuff (Vigilante's sidekick) having always been considered full-fledged members, bringing the number back to seven.seven.
** Following ''Comicbook/DarkNightsDeathMetal'', in the ''Stargirl Spring Break Special'', Ollie and Roy’s status as members were restored, albeit with it stated they’d gone back in time to the Golden Age for a while thanks to an encounter with a villain.



* RetCon: After the Crisis on Infinite Earths, history changed so that Green Arrow and Speedy were no longer alive during the 1940s. They were replaced by Wing (Crimson Avenger's sidekick) and Stuff (Vigilante's sidekick) having always been considered full-fledged members, bringing the number back to seven.

to:

* RetCon: RetCon:
**
After the Crisis on Infinite Earths, history changed so that Green Arrow and Speedy were no longer alive during the 1940s. They were replaced by Wing (Crimson Avenger's sidekick) and Stuff (Vigilante's sidekick) having always been considered full-fledged members, bringing the number back to seven.seven.
** Following ''Comicbook/DarkNightsDeathMetal'', in the ''Stargirl Spring Break Special'', Ollie and Roy’s status as members were restored, albeit with it stated they’d gone back in time to the Golden Age for a while thanks to an encounter with a villain.
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removing natter


** Originally, Lee Travis chose to adopt the identity of The Crimson Avenger to avenge his unjustly-slain friend. He chose to keep that identity because he realized that there were dangerous people out there, some posing as law-abiding citizens, that he couldn't stop within the bounds of the law. That is, becoming a Crimson Avenger was an entirely moral decision and the deaths (even of criminals) that resulted from that decision troubled him and made him a complex, interesting character. But as of 2000, he was actually '''cursed''' all along. Somehow Wing got his hands on '''two''' ''cursed'' pistols that he happened to lend his boss, and when Lee took a life in vengeance with them (never mind that he lost one and isn't shown getting it back) he was ''cursed'' to keep doing it until he somehow broke free of the curse and started just using a gas gun. That sun symbol on his chest in his superhero garb was actually a blood spatter from the '''endlessly-bleeding hole''' he got in his chest because he was ''cuuuuuurrrsed''! Grim! Boogedy-boo! And apparently the curse came with a whole bunch of powers that Lee Travis never actually used. Okay!

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** Originally, Lee Travis chose to adopt the identity of The Crimson Avenger to avenge his unjustly-slain friend. He chose to keep that identity because he realized that there were dangerous people out there, some posing as law-abiding citizens, that he couldn't stop within the bounds of the law. That is, becoming a Crimson Avenger was an entirely moral decision and the deaths (even of criminals) that resulted from that decision troubled him and made him a complex, interesting character. But as of 2000, he was actually '''cursed''' all along. Somehow Wing got his hands on '''two''' ''cursed'' pistols that he happened to lend his boss, and when Lee took a life in vengeance with them (never mind that he lost one and isn't shown getting it back) he was ''cursed'' to keep doing it until he somehow broke free of the curse and started just using a gas gun. That sun symbol on his chest in his superhero garb was actually a blood spatter from the '''endlessly-bleeding hole''' he got in his chest because he was ''cuuuuuurrrsed''! Grim! Boogedy-boo! And apparently the curse came with a whole bunch of powers that Lee Travis never actually used. Okay!spatter.
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* TheLastDance: He dons his costume for the first time in years, saves a kid's life with some fancy acrobatics, beats up multiple criminals and pilots a flaming ship full of volatile chemicals out of a harbor before it can explode, saving countless lives. Not bad for a guy who was told he'd be dead in a few short weeks.

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* TheLastDance: He dons his costume for the first time in years, saves a kid's life with some fancy acrobatics, beats up multiple criminals and pilots a flaming ship full of volatile chemicals out of a harbor before it can explode, saving countless lives. Not bad for a guy who was told he'd be dead in a few short weeks.week.
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* TheLastDance: He dons his costume for the first time in years, saves a kid's life with some fancy acrobatics, beats up multiple criminals and pilots a flaming ship full of volatile chemicals out of a harbor before it can explode, saving countless lives. Not bad for a guy who was told he'd be dead in a few short weeks.
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* RetCon: After the Crisis on Infinite Earths, history changed so that Green Arrow and Speedy were no longer alive during the 1940's. They were replaced by Wing (Crimson Avenger's sidekick) and Stuff (Vigilante's sidekick) having always been considered full-fledged members, bringing the number back to seven.

to:

* RetCon: After the Crisis on Infinite Earths, history changed so that Green Arrow and Speedy were no longer alive during the 1940's.1940s. They were replaced by Wing (Crimson Avenger's sidekick) and Stuff (Vigilante's sidekick) having always been considered full-fledged members, bringing the number back to seven.
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* RetCon: Originally the [=SSoV=] were on Earth-2, and so had the Earth-2 versions of Green Arrow and Speedy as members. With the Crisis on Infinite Earths, Earth-2 was no more, so Wing (the Crimson Avenger's sidekick) and Stuff the Chinatown Kid (The Vigilante's sidekick)gained the status of full-fledged members of the team to make seven.

to:

* RetCon: Originally the [=SSoV=] were on Earth-2, and so had the Earth-2 versions of Green Arrow and Speedy as members. With the Crisis on Infinite Earths, Earth-2 was no more, so Wing (the Crimson Avenger's sidekick) and Stuff the Chinatown Kid (The Vigilante's sidekick)gained sidekick) gained the status of full-fledged members of the team to make seven.









* EvilUncle: Or evil ''honorary'' uncle anyway. Lee's godfather, whom he referred to as "uncle" both paid for his journalism education and left him the ''New York Globe-Leader'' newspaper after he died...in the hopes that Lee would lose his youthful idealism and principles and become more receptive to joining his group of war profiteers. In fact, Lee ''was'' growing more cynical and disaffected...until the night of the Halloween Ball.
* {{Expy}}:

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* EvilUncle: Or evil ''honorary'' uncle anyway. Lee's godfather, whom he referred to as "uncle" both paid for his journalism education and left him the ''New York Globe-Leader'' newspaper after he died... in the hopes that Lee would lose his youthful idealism and principles and become more receptive to joining his group of war profiteers. In fact, Lee ''was'' growing more cynical and disaffected... until the night of the Halloween Ball.
* {{Expy}}: {{Expy}}:



























* PrimaryColorChampion: ''Red'', White and ''Blue''

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* PrimaryColorChampion: ''Red'', White and ''Blue''''Blue''.









* PrimaryColorChampion: ''Red'', White and ''Blue''
* RetiredBadass: After returning from Ancient Egypt, he gave up the hero game, got married, and had a young son by the time he got back in touch with Sylvester. He unretires roughly an in-universe decade later after his step-daughter became the new Star-Spangled Kid, taking up a suit of PoweredArmor called S.T.R.I.P.E.

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* PrimaryColorChampion: ''Red'', White and ''Blue''
''Blue''.
* RetiredBadass: After returning from Ancient Egypt, he gave up the hero game, got married, and had a young son by the time he got back in touch with Sylvester. He unretires roughly an in-universe decade later after his step-daughter became the new Star-Spangled Kid, taking up a suit of PoweredArmor called S.T.R.I.P.E.E..









* RetCon: After the Crisis on Infinite Earths, history changed so that Green Arrow and Speedy were no longer alive during the 1940's. They were replaced by Wing (Crimson Avenger's sidekick) and Stuff (Vigilante's sidekick) having always been considered full-fledged members, bringing the number back to seven.

to:

* RetCon: After the Crisis on Infinite Earths, history changed so that Green Arrow and Speedy were no longer alive during the 1940's.1940s. They were replaced by Wing (Crimson Avenger's sidekick) and Stuff (Vigilante's sidekick) having always been considered full-fledged members, bringing the number back to seven.












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** He also had what looks like a Chinese-looking symbol on his chest sometimes. It's unclear what it means, if anything it's probably not whatever the creators ''thought'' it did.

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** He also had what looks like a Chinese-looking symbol on his chest sometimes. It's unclear what it means, if means--if anything it's probably not whatever the creators ''thought'' it did.



* JapaneseRanguage: After the superhero revamp in the 1940's he was depicted as speaking this way, even though he was Chinese.

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* JapaneseRanguage: After the superhero revamp in the 1940's he was depicted as went from speaking this way, even though he was Chinese.like Charlie Chan to talking and looking like a character from ''WesternAnimation/TokioJokio'', albeit on the heroes' side.



* NonActionGuy: Initially, he mostly just drove the Crimson Avenger to where he needed to go, and moved unconscious bodies and such when necessary. It took the revamp to get him taking an active fight against crime.
* NotWearingTights: In his initial appearances, Wing wore a normal chauffeur's uniform. Then again, in the Golden Age he didn't really start actually fighting anyone until the superhero revamp.

to:

* NonActionGuy: Initially, he mostly just drove the Crimson Avenger to where he needed to go, and moved unconscious bodies and such when necessary. necessary, although he was shown to have knocked out one thug off-panel to stop him from fleeing. It took the revamp to get him show Wing taking an more active fight against crime.
* NotWearingTights: In his initial appearances, Wing wore a normal chauffeur's uniform. Then again, in the Golden Age he didn't really start actually fighting anyone until the superhero revamp.
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* TheGreatestStoryNeverTold: Since the smoke obscured him, nobody knew that the Crimson Avenger sacrificed his life to stop a ship full of volatile chemicals from exploding in a city harbor. At least not for a long time.


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* ImprobableAimingSkills: Skilled at making trick shots like shooting out tires or blasting guns out of peoples' hands.


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** In a recent (2021) appearance, his symbol was shown to be a question mark.


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** In at least one modern take on the [=SSoV=], he appears to be a teenager again.
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* ChestInsignia: It's meant to be a sun. Later it's ret-conned to be a constantly-bleeding hole in his chest, because the Dark Age of Comics wasn't quite over yet.

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* ChestInsignia: It's meant to be a sun. What do suns have to do with crimson avengers? Who knows? Later it's ret-conned to be a constantly-bleeding hole in his chest, because the Dark Age of Comics wasn't quite over yet.



** In one adventure he uses a special chemical to change the sun symbol into a ''sword'' symbol which terrified all criminals who looked upon it. Peculiarly, he never used this trick again.

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** In one adventure he uses a special chemical to change the sun symbol on his chest into a ''sword'' symbol which terrified all criminals who looked upon it. Peculiarly, he never used this trick again.
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* CharacterizationMarchesOn: An unfortunate example. In his original appearances, Wing was presented as a competent, intelligent sidekick without any stereotypical Asian features. Come the superheroic revamp and the era when he and the Crimson Avenger started wearing superhero costumes and he got a "comic relief" makeover. Suddenly, he had a goblin-like appearance, buck teeth, and lost several IQ points. Fortunately, when they reappeared in 1972, he was returned to competence and a better appearance. Post-Crisis, he avoided this embarrassing phase altogether.

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* CharacterizationMarchesOn: An unfortunate example. In his original appearances, Wing was presented as a competent, intelligent sidekick without any stereotypical Asian features. Come the superheroic revamp and the era when he and the Crimson Avenger started wearing superhero costumes and he got a "comic relief" makeover. Suddenly, he had a goblin-like appearance, buck teeth, and lost several IQ points. Fortunately, when they reappeared in 1972, he was returned to competence and a better appearance.appearance (as seen in the picture). Post-Crisis, he avoided this embarrassing phase altogether.
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Updating Formatting







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Adding Images, Updating Formatting









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[[quoteright:350:https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/800162_wing01.jpg]]







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[[quoteright:205:https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/2959414_stuff.jpg]]















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* TrappedInThePast: When the Soldiers were scattered across spacetime it unclear where he ended up, though his fellow Soldiers speculate that he wound up back in his own time.

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* TrappedInThePast: When the Soldiers were scattered across spacetime it it's unclear where he ended up, though his fellow Soldiers speculate that he wound up back in his own time.
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* DerivativeDifferentiation: Getting a superhero costume and exclusively using his gas gun made him a lot less like The Green Hornet...and more like every other costumed superhero out there. So more if a lateral move.

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* DerivativeDifferentiation: Getting a superhero costume and exclusively using his gas gun made him a lot less like The Green Hornet...and more like every other costumed superhero out there. So more if of a lateral move.

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* DerivativeDifferentiation: Getting a superhero costume and exclusively using his gas gun made him a lot less like The Green Hornet...and more like every other costumed superhero out there. So more if a lateral move.



* DerivativeDifferentiation:
** If nothing else, his disgustingly stereotypical revamp into an negative Asian caricature in a superhero costume did indeed make him ''way'' different from Kato. Just, y'know, not in a ''good'' way.
** The ''Secret Origins'' and miniseries RetCon pin Wing down as a native of Hankow, which was invaded by the Japanese in 1938, and make him considerably more forthright and less laconic when speaking with Travis than the usual depiction of Kato and Britt Reid.



* NotWearingTights: In his initial appearances, Kato wore a normal chauffeur's uniform. Then again, in the Golden Age he didn't really start actually fighting anyone until the superhero revamp.

to:

* NonActionGuy: Initially, he mostly just drove the Crimson Avenger to where he needed to go, and moved unconscious bodies and such when necessary. It took the revamp to get him taking an active fight against crime.
* NotWearingTights: In his initial appearances, Kato Wing wore a normal chauffeur's uniform. Then again, in the Golden Age he didn't really start actually fighting anyone until the superhero revamp.
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* ButNotTooForeign: Both siblings are half-white.

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* ButNotTooForeign: Both Following a modern RetCon both siblings are became half-white.



* RetiredBadass: Victor lives to retire alongside the Vigilante, and the two of them open a chain of restaurants together.

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* RetiredBadass: Victor lives long enough to retire alongside the Vigilante, and the two of them open a chain of restaurants together.



!!The Star Spangled Kid/Sylvester Pemberton

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!!The Star Spangled Kid/Sylvester Kid/Skyman/Sylvester Pemberton
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** His military service as mentioned above comes from two different ''Secret Origins'' tales. The Lincoln Brigade one came first. The latter ''Secret Origins'' tale has him spending some time in Nanda Parbat and having a vision of Superman's death, but doesn't fit neatly into his timeline. (He'd previously been established to have been born in 1913, so if he was in World War I, the lie about his age was a ''heck'' of a whopper).

to:

** His military service as mentioned above comes from two different ''Secret Origins'' tales. The Lincoln Brigade one came first. first in 1985. The latter ''Secret Origins'' tale (2001) has him spending some Lee time in Nanda Parbat and having a vision of Superman's death, but doesn't fit neatly into his timeline. (He'd previously been established to have been pre-established timeline, which had him being born in 1913, so if he was in World War I, the lie about his age was a ''heck'' of a whopper).whopper. The 2001 story tries to justify this by having him jump forward in time ten years, but that makes even ''less'' sense.

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