History AwesomeButImpractical / Military

28th Aug '16 11:44:13 AM Morgenthaler
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* [[NazisWithGnarlyWeapons German]] electronic industry of the 1930s was a pioneer of the radar and Kriegsmarine battleships had very advanced radar systems, more accurate than ever battleship guns when ranging a ship-sized target, yet none of them had a plotting grid or means to broadcast the radar data to the fire control directors, so each radar range had to be corrected by optics to get a firing solution. It had over 40,000 ''kilometres'' of electric wire and was very prone to shatter and vibration damage. Moreover its UnusualUserInterface - the fire control officer fired the guns by ''blowing into a mouthpiece'' fitted with a pressure switch which closed the firing circuit instead of ordinary pistol firing key meant it was an embodiment of this trope. Pneumatics fare badly at sea, and the British estimated the German gunnery was efficient only for the first ten minutes, after which it deteriorated sharply.

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* [[NazisWithGnarlyWeapons [[UsefulNotes/NazisWithGnarlyWeapons German]] electronic industry of the 1930s was a pioneer of the radar and Kriegsmarine battleships had very advanced radar systems, more accurate than ever battleship guns when ranging a ship-sized target, yet none of them had a plotting grid or means to broadcast the radar data to the fire control directors, so each radar range had to be corrected by optics to get a firing solution. It had over 40,000 ''kilometres'' of electric wire and was very prone to shatter and vibration damage. Moreover its UnusualUserInterface - the fire control officer fired the guns by ''blowing into a mouthpiece'' fitted with a pressure switch which closed the firing circuit instead of ordinary pistol firing key meant it was an embodiment of this trope. Pneumatics fare badly at sea, and the British estimated the German gunnery was efficient only for the first ten minutes, after which it deteriorated sharply.
28th Jul '16 8:24:43 PM Bissek
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** In another attempt at weaponizing animals, the Swedes once attempted to create a unit of ''moose'' cavalry (Sweden having a limited supply of good cavalry horses but plenty of moose) in the 17th century. It turned out that 1: Moose can't just subsist on hay like horses can, 2: Once the moose are in rut, they'll attack everybody, even their handlers, 3: Moose are terribly vulnerable to a wide variety of livestock diseases, and 4: Moose are smart enough to figure out that guns and pikes are bad for their health, and once they do, they refuse to go anywhere them. The unit was dissolved without ever fighting a single battle.
27th Jul '16 1:56:39 PM eedwardgrey3
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** Both ''Ratte'' and ''Moster'' were the brainchildren of Edvard Grotte, the engineer [[MadScientist well known for his bouts of gigantism and reliance on the awesomeness]] to the detriment of practicality. During the times of the Weimar Republic, when Germany and the Soviet Union entertained a brief alliance, both being something of the pariahs to the West, he did some work in Russia, producing several designs for his Russian employers. While the first of them, the unimaginatively named Grotte Tank, AKA TG-1, [[BoringButPractical was a fairly conventional medium that advanced to the prototype stage, generally pleased everyone]], and wasn't adopted largely due to the sorry state of the early-Thirties Soviet industry, his subsequent designs were a clear indication of what will then follow. The TG-5 dwarfed even the aforementioned T-35 in its sheer insanity, and was essentially an early version of ''Ratte'', weighing the same 1000 tons and boasting 12-inch naval guns. It was to be driven by four marine diesels and to have the 1000 mm frontal armor.

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** Both ''Ratte'' and ''Moster'' ''Monster'' were the brainchildren of Edvard Grotte, the engineer [[MadScientist well known for his bouts of gigantism and reliance on the awesomeness]] to the detriment of practicality. During the times of the Weimar Republic, when Germany and the Soviet Union entertained a brief alliance, both being something of the pariahs to the West, he did some work in Russia, producing several designs for his Russian employers. While the first of them, the unimaginatively named Grotte Tank, AKA TG-1, [[BoringButPractical was a fairly conventional medium that advanced to the prototype stage, generally pleased everyone]], and wasn't adopted largely due to the sorry state of the early-Thirties Soviet industry, his subsequent designs were a clear indication of what will then follow. The TG-5 dwarfed even the aforementioned T-35 in its sheer insanity, and was essentially an early version of ''Ratte'', weighing the same 1000 tons and boasting 12-inch naval guns. It was to be driven by four marine diesels and to have the 1000 mm frontal armor.
23rd Jul '16 9:19:22 PM lorgskyegon
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** The Tsar Bomba was the largest nuclear weapon in history at 50 megatons. That's almost 1600 times the power of [[AtomicBombingsOfHiroshimaAndNagasaki Fat Man and Little Boy]]. The test of the bomb was the most powerful single thing ever done by mankind.
21st Jul '16 1:20:29 PM dinohunterpat
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* [[FirebreathingWeapon Flamethrowers]]. It was a highly weapon of WWI and WWII that can quickly torch infantry, bunkers, and vehicles. Not to also mention it has enormous psychological potential of producing the hellish images of burning people screaming in pain. However, the weapon was eventually phased out since the Vietnam War for several reasons. It was a heavy weapon that weighed down the user and turned them into a highly visible target, especially for enemy snipers. Second, while its range isn't as atrociously short as depicted in the media, it wasn't effective for long range engagements. Finally, the weapon couldn't be safely stored in such a way that it would explode it hit by an explosive or incendiary projectile. Even its psychological advantage has its own downside; since flamethrower users were so terrifying, they ''always'' get executed if captured.

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* [[FirebreathingWeapon Flamethrowers]]. It was a highly weapon of WWI and WWII that can quickly torch infantry, bunkers, and vehicles. Not to also mention it has enormous psychological potential of producing the hellish images of burning people screaming in pain. However, the weapon was eventually phased out since the Vietnam War for several reasons. It First, it was a heavy weapon that weighed down the user and turned them into a highly visible target, especially for enemy snipers. Second, while its range isn't as atrociously short as depicted in the media, it still wasn't effective for long range engagements. Finally, Third, the weapon couldn't be safely stored in such a way that it would explode it hit by an explosive or incendiary projectile. Even its psychological advantage has its own downside; since flamethrower users were so terrifying, they ''always'' get executed if captured.


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* Among nuclear weapons, atomic bazookas are the least useful and most hazardous. During the 1950s the United States developed the Davy Crockett recoilless rifle which can fire low-yield nukes (think the Fat Man launcher from VideoGame/Fallout and you get the picture). As cool as the idea of a man-portable nuke may seem, it was rendered useless by the fact that the weapon's fallout was wider than its optimum firing range. So if it were ever fired, the users would almost certainly die from cancer caused by the weapon's fallout, making it effectively a suicide weapon. Fortunately, it was never used in combat since it would probably inflict more harm on its users than its target.
22nd Jun '16 2:41:08 AM morane
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** An argument can equally be made that the Battleship became obsolete (if not necessarily ''useless''), the moment the submarine became a viable weapons platform. The essential point remains the same - the extreme construction and operational costs of a Battleship can only be justified if it is essentially invulnerable to lesser ships. The moment that a vessel or collection of vessels of significantly inferior tonnage/cost can stand a reasonable chance of crippling or destroying a Battleship, then the Battleship becomes too great a concentration of military resources to justify.
** Battleships started to become obsolete as soon as the torpedo was invented. Being a powerful warhead that could damage or destroy a battleship for a fraction of the cost made them ideal and a precursor to modern missiles and rockets. the main problem was getting a torpedo launcher within range. Battleships gained longer distance guns, recon planes, and even radar to fight long distance where torpedoes couldnt reach them. Pre-dreadnoughts began using anti-torpedo nets and many small guns to shoot any torpedo ships, while later battleships have other kinds of anti-torpedo defense but that wasnt enough. Battleships eventually needed fleets to protect them from torpedoes, changing their roles to mobile artillery. When aircraft were invented that made them very effective torpedo platforms as even the longest range battleship could have attacked by torpedoes launched by squadrons of aircraft from carriers. In world war 2 most of the italian battleships were neutralized just by a number of torpedo planes attacking in them in harbor regardless of any defenses.

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** An argument can equally be made that the Battleship became obsolete (if not necessarily ''useless''), the moment the submarine became a viable weapons platform. The essential point remains the same - the extreme construction and operational costs of a Battleship can only be justified if it is essentially invulnerable to lesser ships. The moment that a vessel or collection of vessels of significantly inferior tonnage/cost can stand a reasonable chance of crippling or destroying a Battleship, then the Battleship becomes too great a concentration of military resources to justify.
** Battleships
justify. The same can be said of aircraft carrier, too - more aircraft carriers were sunk by submarines than by any other means in WWII.
*** ANY capital ships, not just battleships,
started to become obsolete as soon as the torpedo was invented. Being a powerful warhead that could damage or destroy a battleship capital ship for a fraction of the cost made them ideal and a precursor to modern missiles and rockets. the main problem was getting a torpedo launcher within range. Battleships gained longer distance guns, recon planes, and even radar to fight long distance where torpedoes couldnt reach them. Pre-dreadnoughts began using anti-torpedo nets and many small guns to shoot any torpedo ships, while later battleships have other kinds of anti-torpedo defense but that wasnt enough. Battleships Capital ships eventually needed (and need today!) fleets to protect them from torpedoes, changing their roles to mobile artillery. When aircraft were invented that made them very effective torpedo platforms as even the longest range battleship could have attacked by torpedoes launched by squadrons of aircraft from carriers. In world war 2 most of the italian Italian battleships were neutralized just by a number of torpedo planes attacking in them in harbor regardless of any defenses.defenses.



** The Russian Navy attempted to avoid this problem on Gangut and Imperatritsa Mariya classes simply by setting all their main gun turrets on the centerline of the ship on deck level and rejecting superfiring turrets. This arrangement had several advantages because it reduced the stress on the ends of the ship since the turrets were not concentrated at the end of the ship, increased stability because the lack of elevated turrets and their barbettes, improved the survivability of the ship because the magazines were separated from each other, and gave a lower silhouette. Disadvantages were that the magazines had to be put in the middle of all the machinery, which required steam pipes to be run through or around them and the lack of deck space free from blast. Moreover, it also meant that the [[DidntThinkThisThrough arc of fire of the two middle turrets was extremely restricted and any secondary armament had to be installed on hull casemates below the main deck]], and they ''still'' [[DidntThinkThisThrough were susceptible to main gun blast damage and they were prone to waves hitting in while sailing in rough weather]]. Combined with inverted "ram" bows, these ships were extremely wet and fared miserably in weather.



* [[NazisWithGnarlyWeapons German]] electronic industry of the 1930s was a pioneer of the radar and Kriegsmarine battleships had very advanced radar systems, more accurate than even battleship guns when ranging a ship-sized target, yet none of them had a plotting grid or means to broadcast the radar data to the fire control directors, so each radar range had to be corrected by optics to get a firing solution.

to:

* [[NazisWithGnarlyWeapons German]] electronic industry of the 1930s was a pioneer of the radar and Kriegsmarine battleships had very advanced radar systems, more accurate than even ever battleship guns when ranging a ship-sized target, yet none of them had a plotting grid or means to broadcast the radar data to the fire control directors, so each radar range had to be corrected by optics to get a firing solution.solution. It had over 40,000 ''kilometres'' of electric wire and was very prone to shatter and vibration damage. Moreover its UnusualUserInterface - the fire control officer fired the guns by ''blowing into a mouthpiece'' fitted with a pressure switch which closed the firing circuit instead of ordinary pistol firing key meant it was an embodiment of this trope. Pneumatics fare badly at sea, and the British estimated the German gunnery was efficient only for the first ten minutes, after which it deteriorated sharply.
22nd Jun '16 2:01:34 AM morane
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* Many British and French tanks in the early stages of the war. guns that can kill enemy tanks, check, armour that means enemy tanks can't kill us, check, ability to move above a walking pace, che-no wait, pass. They did have tanks that could go fast too, but most had tin-foil armour. Things didn't get much better until very late in the war, by which time it was over anyway.
** The British Churchill tank shows this brilliantly. Designed as an "infantry tank" it was meant to only go as fast as infantry as a support vehicle. This was designed AFTER Nazi Germany showed off new high speed Blitzkrieg warfare showing infantry tanks as obsolete. British tank design was at least two years behind its competitors, owing to the shattering losses in France and the need to keep some sort of designs in mass production. The Churchill was, therefore, a war-winning weapon for 1941 that was horridly outmoded in 1943. As Churchill commander John Foley points out in his book, Literature/MailedFist, the tank had virtues: ruggedness, mechanical reliability, and an ability to climb slopes the Germans thought were impossible for tanks. But the slow speed was a well-known flaw. Its guns were only ever moderately effective [[note]]Foley's Churchill got three hits on a Tiger at very close range. None penetrated, and the Tiger was still able to come back with a single shot that destroyed Foley's tank, killing the driver.[[/note]] especially in regards to beasts like the Soviet Is-2 with a 122mm artillery gun or German Tiger with an adapted 88mm flak gun, and its top speed was only around 15kilometers per hour compared to medium tanks which had top speeds of 45-55kilometers per hour. It was partnered by the lighter Cromwell, itself a flawed design, but which paved the way for the infinitely better Comet series and then the far more practical Centurion tank.

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* Many British and French tanks in the early stages of the war. guns Guns that can kill enemy tanks, check, armour that means enemy tanks can't kill us, check, ability to move above a walking pace, che-no wait, pass. They did have cruiser tanks too: that could go fast too, fast, but most had tin-foil armour. Things didn't get much better until very late in the war, by which time it was over anyway.
** The British Churchill tank shows this brilliantly. Designed as an "infantry tank" it was meant to [[MightyGlacier only go as fast as infantry as a support vehicle.vehicle]]. This was designed AFTER Nazi Germany showed off new high speed Blitzkrieg warfare showing infantry tanks as obsolete. British tank design was at least two years behind its competitors, owing to the shattering losses in France and the need to keep some sort of designs in mass production. The Churchill was, therefore, a war-winning weapon for 1941 that was horridly outmoded in 1943. As Churchill commander John Foley points out in his book, Literature/MailedFist, the tank had virtues: ruggedness, mechanical reliability, and an ability to climb slopes the Germans thought were impossible for tanks. But the slow speed was a well-known flaw. Its guns were only ever moderately effective [[note]]Foley's Churchill got three hits on a Tiger at very close range. None penetrated, and the Tiger was still able to come back with a single shot that destroyed Foley's tank, killing the driver.[[/note]] especially in regards to beasts like the Soviet Is-2 with a 122mm artillery gun or German Tiger with an adapted 88mm flak gun, and its top speed was only around 15kilometers 15 kilometers per hour compared to medium tanks which had top speeds of 45-55kilometers per hour. It was partnered by the lighter Cromwell, itself a flawed design, but which paved the way for the infinitely better Comet series and then the far more practical Centurion tank.tank.
* The British cruiser tank concept fits this trope as well. Faster than anything the enemy could deploy and having immensely good operative range, their drawbacks were puny 2 lb QF 40 mm "peashooter" gun, [[ArmorIsUseless tin-foil thin armour]] and [[MadeOfExplodium petrol engine with external fuel tank]]. While they were really on their own in open range such as desert, they were easily knocked out of action in close terrain where their mobility was severly compromised.
19th Jun '16 3:50:00 PM ScorpiusOB1
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** And finally, not to put too fine a point on it, the value of the superbattleships is evident in their abysmal performance during the war. The ''Yamato'' engaged US surface ships in only one engagement, the Battle off Samar, where (despite ''weighing more than the entire force she opposed'') she only contributed to the sinking of three small ships. The ''Musashi'', meanwhile, was sunk by aircraft in the Sibuyan Sea prior to the Battle off Samar, and never fired a single shot at an enemy surface vessel in the entire course of her career. In the end, neither ship ever came into gun range of an enemy capital ship. And those hundreds of AA guns were underpowered and obsolete even before they were installed, serving mainly to increase the number of men who went down with each ship.

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** And finally, not to put too fine a point on it, the value of the superbattleships is evident in their abysmal performance during the war. The ''Yamato'' engaged US surface ships in only one engagement, the Battle off Samar, where (despite ''weighing more than the entire force she opposed'') she only contributed to the sinking of three small ships. The ''Musashi'', meanwhile, was sunk by aircraft aircraft[[note]]The same fate suffered by her sistership ''Yamato'', in a totally pointless sacrifice[[/note]] in the Sibuyan Sea prior to the Battle off Samar, and never fired a single shot at an enemy surface vessel in the entire course of her career. In the end, neither ship ever came into gun range of an enemy capital ship. And those hundreds of AA guns were underpowered and obsolete even before they were installed, serving mainly to increase the number of men who went down with each ship.
11th Jun '16 1:48:41 PM Kadorhal
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* The [=XM29=] OICW. It was a standard 5.56mm assault rifle with a 20mm grenade launcher that had programmable airburst grenades. Issues came about due to weight, cost, and the ineffectiveness of both the 20mm grenade and the rifle itself compared to the [=M16A2=][[note]]A nine-inch barrel went a long way to making the weapon ineffective versus the [=M16A2=] - for comparison, even the shortest M16 derivatives have never gone below a ten-inch barrel, and that's not including the five-inch flash hiders usually attached to them. The [=M16A2=]'s 20-inch barrel is generally considered to be ideal for maximizing the 5.56x45mm cartridge's lethality, and anything shorter than the M4 carbine's 14.5-inch barrel is intended for a role similar to submachine guns rather than a normal rifle.[[/note]]. The grenade launcher part did manage to spawn the [=XM25=], using a 25mm grenade, which has seen continued testing and actual service.

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* The [=XM29=] OICW. It was a standard 5.56mm assault rifle with a 20mm grenade launcher that had programmable airburst grenades. Issues came about due to weight, weight[[note]]the target weight was 15 pounds; the actual weight ended up being 18[[/note]], cost, and the ineffectiveness of both the 20mm grenade grenade[[note]]it was too small for proper lethal air-bursting[[/note]] and the rifle itself compared to the [=M16A2=][[note]]A nine-inch [=M16A2=][[note]]thanks to a barrel went a long way just barely longer than nine inches, which wasn't enough to making the weapon ineffective versus the [=M16A2=] - for comparison, even the shortest M16 derivatives have never gone below a ten-inch barrel, and that's not including the five-inch flash hiders usually attached to them.generate an effective muzzle velocity. The [=M16A2=]'s 20-inch barrel is generally considered to be ideal for maximizing the 5.56x45mm cartridge's lethality, and lethality; anything shorter than the M4 carbine's 14.5-inch barrel - and for the record, no other AR-15 derivative has gone below ten and a half inches - is intended for a role similar to submachine guns rather than a normal rifle.[[/note]]. The grenade launcher part did manage to spawn the [=XM25=], using a larger and more effective 25mm grenade, which has seen continued testing and some actual service.service, with current plans to see full-scale deployment in 2017.
6th Jun '16 11:52:31 PM morane
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** On paratroop gear, the German wartime RZ (''Rückfallschirm, Zwangablösung'') parachute. It was designed to open quickly, the rationale being the lower the drop, the less time on chute fall. Unfortunately, it opened extremely violently, resulting in bruises and broken ribs. Moreover, it had ''one single riser'' instead of the normal four, making controlling it in-flight impossible: the paratrooper hang on the parachute like a spider on the web, helplessly, and the only thing he could do was to try to pivot into wind. The German jump position was a crucifix dive instead of the leaning rest, and instead of the safe parachute landing fall, the paratrooper landed on all fours, making wearing gauntlets and kneepads a must. The descent speed was faster than with Allied parachutes and thus landings were always hard, and many ''Fallschirmjäger'' broke their arms or ribs on landing. The rig itself took almost three minutes to undress and could not be unharnessed prone. The horribly unsafe RZ rigs were largely responsible of the horrendous ''Fallschirmjäger'' losses. Jumping with RZ rig is today prohibited for safety reasons, and ''Fallschirmjäger'' re-enactors use normal four-riser Bundeswehr canopies attached on RZ harnesses on jumps. Even stranger is that Luftwaffe used ''perfectly normal'' four-riser parachutes as rescue rigs.
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