History AwesomeButImpractical / Military

18th Apr '18 5:38:38 PM JOKER_G
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* The Chinese failed epically with the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu_J-20 J-20]]. Why? It's only stealthy from the front, basically meaning it's a missile, with a person in it. [[SuicideAttack Gee, I wonder what that means?]]
** If nothing else, it means that it's at least hard to detect by its target once it's laying in an attack run. Getting ''away'' from the target if they didn't neutralize the defenses in their strike could cause them some grief, but that's true of most attack planes.
5th Apr '18 7:06:30 AM SuperLurkerGuy
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** It should be noted that the Alfa was designed and operated as a "defensive" submarine; rather than deploying in combat patrols or collecting intelligence (the Soviets had other submarine classes for this, rather than relying on the one-size-fits-all "fleet boat" approach the Americans and British used), their mission was ''solely'' to intercept and destroy enemy submarines. A higher top speed and better deep-diving capability than the submarines (and their torpedoes) it would hunt were crucial; noise and maintenance concerns were secondary, until near the end of the Alfa's life when they affected availability.
* The ''Triton'' one-off radar picket submarine. Intended to extend the radar range of sea-based air wings; it was the largest submarine produced at the time, with two nuclear reactors and a traditional "knife" submarine hull made it stable on the surface but severely impeded speed underwater. The radar picket role would become obsolete with the rise of carrier-based AWACS aircraft (the first, the E-1 Tracer, was already flying when the Triton launched), and the Triton ended its career as a conventional attack submarine.
4th Apr '18 9:29:53 AM ScandalousWaheela
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** An argument can equally be made that the battleship became obsolescent (if not necessarily ''useless''), the moment the submarine became a viable weapons platform. The essential point remains the same - the extreme construction and operational costs of a battleship can only be justified if it is essentially invulnerable to lesser ships. The moment that a vessel or collection of vessels of significantly inferior tonnage/cost can stand a reasonable chance of crippling or destroying a battleship, then the battleship becomes too great a concentration of military resources to justify. The same can be said of aircraft carrier, too - more aircraft carriers were sunk by submarines than by any other means in WWII.

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** An argument can equally be made that the battleship became obsolescent (if not necessarily ''useless''), the moment the submarine became a viable weapons platform. The essential point remains the same - the extreme construction and operational costs of a battleship can only be justified if it is essentially invulnerable to lesser ships. The moment that a vessel or collection of vessels of significantly inferior tonnage/cost can stand a reasonable chance of crippling or destroying a battleship, then the battleship becomes too great a concentration of military resources to justify. The same can be said of aircraft carrier, too - more aircraft carriers were sunk by submarines than by any other means in WWII. Carriers, however, have become more efficient at subhunting with the development of effective hunter-killer aircraft - something battleships were and remain incapable of.
31st Mar '18 3:13:11 AM Khathi
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** For that matter, the Soviet Union's first attack helicopter, the Mi-24 "Hind" could qualify. The Hind was modified from the Mi-8 transport helicopter, and still retains a troop carrying capability. It is also heavily armed and armored, making it extremely difficult to shoot down without dedicated anti-aircraft weapons. However, it also has several glaring flaws. For starters, the Mi-24 can't take off vertically if it has a full complement of troops and ammunition, requiring the use of a runway. It also isn't very maneuverable. Part of this is due to the heavy weight of the aircraft, but the design of the hardpoint wings can cause the Hind to [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_roll Dutch roll]] and crash. These tend to give the Hind the characteristics of a slow, albeit heavily armored airplane, as opposed to a nimble helicopter. The Hind's armament is also not very impressive. Although modern versions are equipped with a powerful cannon and numerous rockets, it has very limited anti-tank capabilities, using only four anti-tank guided missiles (as opposed to the typical eight to sixteen, depending on mission requirements, of most other attack helicopters). Ironically, the qualities that make it lacking in the sort of armor-rich environment that WorldWarThree would have been make it very useful in the low-intensity, asymetric warfare that became common in the UsefulNotes/ColdWar and post-Cold War period.

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** For that matter, the Soviet Union's first attack helicopter, the Mi-24 "Hind" could qualify. The Hind was modified from the Mi-8 transport helicopter, and still retains a troop carrying capability. It is also heavily armed and armored, making it extremely difficult to shoot down without dedicated anti-aircraft weapons. However, it also has several glaring flaws. For starters, the Mi-24 can't take off vertically if it has a full complement of troops and ammunition, ammunition,[[note]]Though only in a hot weather high up in the mountains, and [[EarlyInstallmentWeirdness with the early engines]]. Unfortunately, these happened to be exactly these conditions that it encountered in its first widely publicized deployment in [[UsefulNotes/Afghanistan]]. Later the improved engines allowed the vertical takeoff even in the mountains, [[NeverLiveItDown but the reputation was already set in stone]], and the rolling takeoff saved the fuel anyway.[[/note]] requiring the use of a runway. It also isn't very maneuverable. Part of this is due to the heavy weight of the aircraft, but the design of the hardpoint wings can cause the Hind to [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_roll Dutch roll]] and crash. These tend to give the Hind the characteristics of a slow, albeit heavily armored airplane, as opposed to a nimble helicopter. The Hind's armament is also not very impressive. Although modern versions are equipped with a powerful cannon and numerous rockets, it has very limited anti-tank capabilities, using only four anti-tank guided missiles (as opposed to the typical eight to sixteen, depending on mission requirements, of most other attack helicopters). Ironically, the qualities that make it lacking in the sort of armor-rich environment that WorldWarThree would have been make it very useful in the low-intensity, asymetric warfare that became common in the UsefulNotes/ColdWar and post-Cold War period. Which is why it's still inproduction and even received a modernized version in Mi-35, which finally solved the Dutch roll problem.


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** Ironically, this was the original role which its Soviet counterpart was designed for, and in which it also was much more successful, staying in production and widespread use to this day, forming the backbone of most Soviet and Russian warships point defense, either alone or together with the short-range [=SAMs=].


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** Much of its reliability problems stemmed from the very rate of fire it was designed for. Just as an example, the rimmed Russian round requiped two-phase feeding, first pulling it out of the belt to the back of a weapon, and then pushing it forward into the action. Because of the insane rate of fire, the round was jerked out of the belt with such a force that the bullet would often fall out of it. They had to design the special ammunition with much heavier crimping to fight this problem, but a) this increased the barrel pressure, leading to the whole new host of problems, b) these special rounds would often [[EasyLogistics mix with the normal ones in the supply chain]], and c) were quite rare, tempting the armorers to load the guns with the normal ones when they weren't available.
11th Mar '18 4:14:24 PM Kadorhal
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* The [[CoolPlane F-14 Tomcat]]. Though undeniably an incredible interceptor and quite solid in the air superiority role, the early-model Tomcats were plagued by [[TheAllegedCar their craptastic TF30 engines]], which flamed out for any reason at all, and were also big and expensive. The vaunted Phoenix missiles also had weight issues, and were not of much use against maneuvering targets. Worse, as the years went on the effort of keeping them running rose to unreasonable levels; according to former Navy veterans, Tomcats would frequently fly without a functioning radar, just because it was such a pain to keep running. Add in a lack of upgrades (particularly TF30 replacement and new avionics), and the Navy was probably not sorry to see it go in 2006. In addition, the Tomcat has the dubious honor of being the last major warplane deployed before digital fly-by-wire controls revolutionized the entire fighter concept; new planes such as the F-16 and F/A-18 blew away the Tomcat in the maneuverability department. Also, the AEGIS radar present on all new American destroyers and cruisers has rendered the "fleet defense interceptor" concept obsolete.

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* The [[CoolPlane F-14 Tomcat]]. Though undeniably an incredible interceptor and quite solid in the air superiority role, the early-model Tomcats were plagued by [[TheAllegedCar their the craptastic TF30 engines]], engines]] salvaged from the failed F-111B project, which flamed out for any reason at all, and were also big and expensive. The vaunted Phoenix missiles also had weight issues, and were not of much use against maneuvering targets. Worse, as the years went on on, the effort of keeping them running rose to unreasonable levels; according to former Navy veterans, Tomcats would frequently fly without a functioning radar, just because it was such a pain to keep running. Add in a lack of upgrades (particularly TF30 replacement (the best it got were better engines and then new avionics), and the Navy was probably not sorry to see it go in 2006. In addition, the Tomcat has the dubious honor of being the last major warplane deployed before digital fly-by-wire controls revolutionized the entire fighter concept; new planes such as the F-16 and F/A-18 blew away the Tomcat in the maneuverability department. Also, the AEGIS radar present on all new American destroyers and cruisers has rendered the "fleet defense interceptor" concept obsolete.
11th Mar '18 4:24:18 AM Kadorhal
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* [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa_class_submarine The USSR's "Alfa" class submarine]]. It set the record (still held to this day) for the second fastest and deepest diving military submarine in the world[[note]]after the preceding ''Papa'' class, itself too Awesome, But Impractical to produce beyond one prototype[[/note]], and knowledge of its production greatly alarmed the West, to the point that the US and Britain both designed torpedoes for the specific purpose of hunting down Alfas[[note]]As for standard torpedoes, an Alfa could just turn around and outrun them. The Soviets specifically tested this by firing torpedoes at their own subs![[/note]]. Unfortunately the Alfa had small and powerful but ''very'' maintenance-intensive ''lead-bismuth''-cooled nuclear reactors that ''couldn't normally be turned off'', as doing so would let the metal solidify and essentially turn the whole thing into a solid inert lump. Entire maintenance facilities had to be constructed at Alfa homeports simply to keep the reactors hot when they weren't being used - but, in typical Soviet fashion, the facilities themselves weren't properly maintained and often didn't work. As a result Alfa reactors had to be kept running at all times, which they hadn't been designed for and which resulted in several expensive failures. While the reactors could remain active for 15 years they also could never be refueled and were intended to be replaced at the end of their life, like a battery is; despite this the Alfa hadn't been designed with quick reactor replacement in mind, so the process would have been expensive and slow, potentially more than refueling a traditional submarine. In addition, while the Alfa reportedly had a crush depth of over 1300 meters, deep dives did permanent damage to the submarine's onboard equipment, so that impressive diving ability was largely wasted in practice.
** The Alfas were also ''louder'' than other nuclear attack subs of their era, which is a problem since stealth is the main weapon of a submarine. On the other hand all this loudness was mainly during the top speed runs, at cruising speeds ''Alphas'' weren't any louder than other Soviet subs of that generation.

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* [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa_class_submarine The USSR's "Alfa" class submarine]]. It set the record (still held to this day) for the second fastest and deepest diving military submarine in the world[[note]]after world,[[note]]after the preceding ''Papa'' class, itself too Awesome, But Impractical to produce beyond one prototype[[/note]], prototype[[/note]] and knowledge of its production greatly alarmed the West, to the point that the US and Britain both designed torpedoes for the specific purpose of hunting down Alfas[[note]]As Alfas.[[note]]As for standard torpedoes, an Alfa could just turn around and outrun them. The Soviets specifically tested this by firing torpedoes at their own subs![[/note]]. subs![[/note]] Unfortunately the Alfa had small and powerful but ''very'' maintenance-intensive ''lead-bismuth''-cooled nuclear reactors that ''couldn't normally be turned off'', as doing so would let the metal solidify and essentially turn the whole thing into a solid inert lump. Entire maintenance facilities had to be constructed at Alfa homeports simply to keep the reactors hot when they weren't being used - but, in typical Soviet fashion, the facilities themselves weren't properly maintained and often didn't work. As a result Alfa reactors had to be kept running at all times, which they hadn't been designed for and which resulted in several expensive failures. While the reactors could remain active for 15 years years, they also could never be refueled and were intended to be replaced at the end of their life, like a battery is; despite this this, the Alfa hadn't been designed with quick reactor replacement in mind, so the process would have been expensive and slow, potentially more than refueling a traditional submarine. In addition, while the Alfa reportedly had a crush depth of over 1300 meters, deep dives did permanent damage to the submarine's onboard equipment, so that impressive diving ability was largely wasted in practice.
**
practice. The Alfas were also ''louder'' than other nuclear attack subs of their era, which is a problem since stealth is the main weapon of a submarine. On the other hand hand, all this loudness was mainly during the top speed runs, runs; at cruising speeds ''Alphas'' speeds, Alfas weren't any louder than other Soviet subs of that generation.



* [[UsefulNotes/NazisWithGnarlyWeapons German]] electronic industry of the 1930s was a pioneer of the radar and Kriegsmarine battleships had very advanced radar systems, more accurate than ever battleship guns when ranging a ship-sized target, yet none of them had a plotting grid or means to broadcast the radar data to the fire control directors, so each radar range had to be corrected by optics to get a firing solution. It had over 40,000 ''kilometres'' of electric wire and was very prone to shatter and vibration damage. Moreover its UnusualUserInterface - the fire control officer fired the guns by ''blowing into a mouthpiece'' fitted with a pressure switch which closed the firing circuit instead of ordinary pistol firing key - meant it was an embodiment of this trope. Pneumatics fare badly at sea, and the British estimated the German gunnery was efficient only for the first ten minutes, after which it deteriorated sharply.

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* The [[UsefulNotes/NazisWithGnarlyWeapons German]] electronic industry of the 1930s was a pioneer of the radar and Kriegsmarine battleships had very advanced radar systems, more accurate than ever battleship guns when ranging a ship-sized target, yet none of them had a plotting grid or means to broadcast the radar data to the fire control directors, so each radar range had to be corrected by optics to get a firing solution. It had over 40,000 ''kilometres'' of electric wire and was very prone to shatter and vibration damage. Moreover its UnusualUserInterface - the fire control officer fired the guns by ''blowing into a mouthpiece'' fitted with a pressure switch which closed the firing circuit instead of an ordinary pistol firing key - meant it was an embodiment of this trope. Pneumatics fare badly at sea, and the British estimated the German gunnery was efficient only for the first ten minutes, after which it deteriorated sharply.



* Italian [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vittorio_Veneto_class_battleship Littorio-class battleships]] of UsefulNotes/WorldWarII had greater firepower of anything that wasn't American or the ''Yamato'' (yes, even the famous ''Bismarck'' was badly outgunned by the Italian ships) with the longest-ranged guns of any battleship ''ever'' (and a piercing capability comparable to the much bigger 406mm-caliber guns of the American battleships and the 460mm guns of the ''Yamato''), had an awesome point defense, were 30 knots fast (enough to qualify as fast battleships, and faster than most), and were awesomely armored. Also, the guns were tremendously inaccurate at the long range they were used at (not just due a lack of radar: they remained inaccurate even after the Italians managed to develop and install it) and had short barrel life (due to the excessive velocity) and low rate of fire, the point defense wasn't ranged enough to defend from radio-controlled guided bombs (the only ship of the class to be lost was sunk by a German anti-ship guided bomb. To be fair, not even the Germans had seen it coming at the start of the war), the torpedo defense used an ineffective design more expensive than the conventional (it would have been superior to normal, had the right construction techniques been available and not been compromised by speed-optimized hullforms), and the combination of high speed and thick armor made them fuel hogs, with the fuel shortage suffered by Italy during the war forcing them to stay in harbor for most of the war. Note that this is the ''less impractical'' version: the ships had been originally built with bulbous bows for higher speeds but had been modified due excessive vibrations, and the original design was supposed to use 406mm-caliber guns but opted for smaller 381mm guns because they would have to be designed from the ground up while 381 designs to improve were already available.
** Italian ships of UsefulNotes/WorldWarII in general: as Italian doctrine of the time was geared to fight the French navy, ships other than battleships were built with high reliability, ludicrous speed and thin armour in mind, so that their light cruisers would chase down and sink enemy destroyers and lure enemy light cruisers where heavier firepower was available, their heavy cruisers would chase down enemy light cruisers and lure enemy heavy cruisers in the guns of the battleships (that would have been able to sink enemy battleships from range and avoid counterfire at smaller ranges thanks to superior speed), and their destroyers would simply avoid enemy battleship fire and torpedo them with impunity. While arguably effective against the intended opponent, the Italians never fought the French navy but the [[UsefulNotes/BritsWithBattleships Royal Navy]], whose more aggressive combat doctrine, combined with higher initiative allowed to British commanders, the presence of carriers and the British ability to consistently break Italian and German codes, and British superiority in radar technology (Italy did not have functional radars when they entered World War II) ended up causing Italian ships to fight with similar-sized opponents again and again, where speed was less a factor than thick armour.
* Similar to the above, the Italia ''Zara''-class cruisers were one of the finest cruiser designs of the second World War: A unique armor layout made them the best protected cruisers until the introduction of the ''Des Moines''-class by the USN, an innovative scheme of secondary weapon placement that made their anti-aircraft defenses extremely formidable, and saved weight meant they were only 2kts slower than the preceding ''Trento''-class, whose GlassCannon tendencies they were designed to address. Indeed, there were no better ships for their intended mission - zooming up and down the Italian coast defending it from French attack. In the Battles of Calabria and Cape Spartivento, they gave the British serious difficulty. All that weight reduction meant cutting down the superstructure, meaning it was very difficult to mount radar, which in turn meant the ''Regia Marina'' didn't bother (which did not even matter because Italy didn't even have access to radar technology when the ships were being designed anyways). The folly of this decision was demonstrated at the midnight Battle of Cape Matapan: three (radar-equipped) British battleships, the ''Warspite'', the ''Valiant'', and the ''Queen Elizabeth'', were able to close to within 3 kilometres of a flotilla of three ''Zara''s - point-blank range in naval terms - and opened fire, illuminating the Italian ships with their searchlights (the ''Valiant'''s searchlights were commanded by [[UsefulNotes/TheHouseOfWindsor Prince Phillip]]). Within minutes the ''Zara''s were out of action. They had not even managed to fire a single shot in reply.
* Meanwhile, the Imperial Japanese Navy's post-Washington Treaty light cruisers showed that they were all about this trope. While they pioneered the idea of circumventing the treaty by [[LoopholeAbuse abusing its loophole of defining light cruisers only by gun caliber]] and building what were effectively heavy cruisers with light cruiser guns [[MoreDakka in huge numbers]] (the US Navy and Royal Navy promptly copied this idea, in the form of the ''Brooklyn''-class and ''Town'' class cruisers, which were far more balanced) in the form of the ''Mogami'' class, they also insisted on using 6.1-inch (155mm) guns even though the IJN already had ships in service with 6-inch (152mm) guns of nearly identical capability to the new slightly larger guns. Why? Because they were so offended by their government agreeing to the treaty that they required that every treaty-compliant ship have the absolute maximum allowable capabilities - even when it resulted in complicating the fleet's logistics for no discernible gain.

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* The Italian [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vittorio_Veneto_class_battleship Littorio-class battleships]] of UsefulNotes/WorldWarII had greater firepower of anything that wasn't American or the ''Yamato'' (yes, even the famous ''Bismarck'' was badly outgunned by the Italian ships) with the longest-ranged guns of any battleship ''ever'' (and a piercing capability comparable to the much bigger 406mm-caliber guns of the American battleships and the 460mm guns of the ''Yamato''), had an awesome point defense, were 30 knots fast (enough to qualify as fast battleships, and faster than most), and were awesomely armored. Also, the guns were tremendously inaccurate at the long range they were used at (not just due a lack of radar: they remained inaccurate even after the Italians managed to develop and install it) and had short barrel life (due to the excessive velocity) and low rate of fire, the point defense wasn't ranged enough to defend from radio-controlled guided bombs (the only ship of the class to be lost was sunk by a German anti-ship guided bomb. To be fair, not even the Germans had seen it coming at the start of the war), the torpedo defense used an ineffective design more expensive than the conventional (it would have been superior to normal, had the right construction techniques been available and not been compromised by speed-optimized hullforms), and the combination of high speed and thick armor made them fuel hogs, with the fuel shortage suffered by Italy during the war forcing them to stay in harbor for most of the war. Note that this is the ''less impractical'' version: the ships had been originally built with bulbous bows for higher speeds but had been modified due to excessive vibrations, and the original design was supposed to use 406mm-caliber guns guns, but opted for smaller 381mm guns because they would have to be designed from the ground up while 381 designs to improve were already available.
** Italian ships of UsefulNotes/WorldWarII from the war in general: as Italian doctrine of the time was geared to fight the French navy, Navy, ships other than battleships were built with high reliability, ludicrous speed and thin armour in mind, so that their light cruisers would chase down and sink enemy destroyers and lure enemy light cruisers towards where heavier firepower was available, their heavy cruisers would chase down enemy light cruisers and lure enemy heavy cruisers in into the guns of the battleships (that would have been able to sink enemy battleships from range and avoid counterfire at smaller ranges thanks to superior speed), and their destroyers would simply avoid enemy battleship fire and torpedo them with impunity. While arguably effective against the intended opponent, the Italians never fought the French navy but Navy - they fought the [[UsefulNotes/BritsWithBattleships Royal Navy]], whose more aggressive combat doctrine, combined with higher initiative allowed to British commanders, the presence of carriers and the British ability to consistently break Italian and German codes, and British superiority in radar technology (Italy did not have functional radars when they entered World War II) ended up causing Italian ships to fight with similar-sized opponents again and again, where speed was less a factor than thick armour.
* Similar to the above, the Italia Italian ''Zara''-class cruisers were one of the finest cruiser designs of the second World War: A unique armor layout made them the best protected cruisers until the introduction of the ''Des Moines''-class by the USN, an innovative scheme of secondary weapon placement that made their anti-aircraft defenses extremely formidable, and saved weight meant they were only 2kts slower than the preceding ''Trento''-class, whose GlassCannon tendencies they were designed to address. Indeed, there were no better ships for their intended mission - zooming up and down the Italian coast defending it from French attack. In the Battles of Calabria and Cape Spartivento, they gave the British serious difficulty. All However, all that weight reduction meant cutting down the superstructure, meaning it was very difficult to mount radar, which in turn meant the ''Regia Marina'' didn't bother (which did not even matter because Italy didn't even have access to radar technology when the ships were being designed anyways). The folly of this decision was demonstrated at the midnight Battle of Cape Matapan: three (radar-equipped) British battleships, the ''Warspite'', the ''Valiant'', and the ''Queen Elizabeth'', were able to close to within 3 kilometres of a flotilla of three ''Zara''s - point-blank range in naval terms - and opened fire, illuminating the Italian ships with their searchlights (the ''Valiant'''s searchlights were commanded by [[UsefulNotes/TheHouseOfWindsor Prince Phillip]]). Within minutes the ''Zara''s were out of action. They had not even managed to fire a single shot in reply.
* Meanwhile, the Imperial Japanese Navy's post-Washington Treaty light cruisers showed that they were all about this trope. While they pioneered the idea of circumventing the treaty by [[LoopholeAbuse abusing its loophole loophole]] of defining light cruisers only by gun caliber]] caliber and building what were effectively heavy cruisers with light cruiser guns [[MoreDakka in huge numbers]] (the US Navy and Royal Navy promptly copied this idea, in the form of the ''Brooklyn''-class respective ''Brooklyn''- and ''Town'' class ''Town''-class cruisers, which were far more balanced) in the form of the ''Mogami'' class, they also insisted on using 6.1-inch (155mm) guns even though the IJN already had ships in service with 6-inch (152mm) guns of nearly identical capability to the new slightly larger guns. Why? Because they were so offended by their government agreeing to the treaty that they required that every treaty-compliant ship have the absolute maximum allowable capabilities - even when it resulted in complicating the fleet's logistics for no discernible gain.
6th Mar '18 9:26:40 PM nombretomado
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** [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat-Revelli_Modello_1914 Fiat-Revelli Modello 1914]]: a machine gun, it was a sound design, had a box loading that was more reliable than the belt (even if hellishly complex and slow to load without special tools), and, most important, was Italian, thus freeing the Royal Italian Army from foreign supplies that would come either from Britain (at the time an enemy), Austria-Hungary (technically an ally, but a very unliked one that the Italian government planned to betray at the first chance) or Germany (an ally. This one Italy liked, but also knew they'd stay loyal to Austria-Hungary). Less awesome were the ''many'' troubles that earned this weapon a place in the ReliablyUnreliableGuns page on ThisWiki and the fact it was adopted over a better Italian design only due the Fiat company political power and [[ObstructiveBureaucrat bureaucrats screwing up hard while buying Maxims]].

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** [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat-Revelli_Modello_1914 Fiat-Revelli Modello 1914]]: a machine gun, it was a sound design, had a box loading that was more reliable than the belt (even if hellishly complex and slow to load without special tools), and, most important, was Italian, thus freeing the Royal Italian Army from foreign supplies that would come either from Britain (at the time an enemy), Austria-Hungary (technically an ally, but a very unliked one that the Italian government planned to betray at the first chance) or Germany (an ally. This one Italy liked, but also knew they'd stay loyal to Austria-Hungary). Less awesome were the ''many'' troubles that earned this weapon a place in the ReliablyUnreliableGuns page on ThisWiki Wiki/ThisVeryWiki and the fact it was adopted over a better Italian design only due the Fiat company political power and [[ObstructiveBureaucrat bureaucrats screwing up hard while buying Maxims]].
25th Feb '18 6:59:06 AM Nautilus1
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* An Allied design just as bizarre at the first glance as [[NotSoDifferent Tigers and Jagdtigers]] put together had been the Chrysler Multi-Bank engine of the M4A4 Sherman tank. As contracted Ford engines were late to come and aircraft engines were too big and finicky for a tank, [[ExecutiveMeddling Chrysler leadership decided]] to assemble 5 cylinder blocks of their flathead straight-six type into a giant, 30-cylinder engine. This ended up as a monster with [[ComplexityAddiction 30 sparkplugs, 5 distributors, 5 carburettors, 5 flywheels-gears spinning a central sun gear]], with a total weight of 2384kg. That is 5244lbs, or [[HiroshimaAsAUnitOfMeasure the weight of 2 average cars stacked upon each other]]. A simple change of sparkplugs, 30 of them, needed the engine to be removed from the tank with a vehicle-mounted crane.

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* An Allied design just as bizarre at the first glance as [[NotSoDifferent Tigers and Jagdtigers]] put together had been the Chrysler Multi-Bank engine of the M4A4 [=M4A4=] Sherman tank. As contracted Ford engines were late to come and aircraft engines were too big and finicky for a tank, [[ExecutiveMeddling Chrysler leadership decided]] to assemble 5 cylinder blocks of their flathead straight-six type into a giant, 30-cylinder engine. This ended up as a monster with [[ComplexityAddiction 30 sparkplugs, 5 distributors, 5 carburettors, 5 flywheels-gears spinning a central sun gear]], with a total weight of 2384kg. That is 5244lbs, or [[HiroshimaAsAUnitOfMeasure the weight of 2 average cars stacked upon each other]]. A simple change of sparkplugs, 30 of them, needed the engine to be removed from the tank with a vehicle-mounted crane.
25th Feb '18 6:58:21 AM Nautilus1
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* An Allied design just as bizarre at the first glance as [[NotSoDifferent Tigers and Jagdtigers]] put together had been the Chrysler Multi-Bank engine of the M4A4 Sherman tank. As contracted Ford engines were late to come and aircraft engines were too big and finicky for a tank, [[ExecutiveMeddling Chrysler leadership decided]] to assemble 5 cylinder blocks of their flathead straight-six type into a giant, 30-cylinder engine. This ended up as a monster with [[ComplexityAddiction 30 sparkplugs, 5 distributors, 5 carburettors, 5 flywheels-gears spinning a central sun gear]], with a total weight of 2384kg. That is 5244lbs, or [[HiroshimaAsAUnitOfMeasure the weight of 2 average cars stacked upon each other]]. A simple change of sparkplugs, 30 of them, needed the engine to be removed from the tank with a vehicle-mounted crane.
23rd Feb '18 4:06:15 PM MandolinMagi
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* The Karl Device. [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl-Ger%C3%A4t Have a look]]. The second largest calibre weapon ever fired in war, one shell weighed two tons, and each launching platform weighed 124 tonnes. Could only be effectively moved by rail, and was almost useless as tactical weapon. But ''two tons'' of explosives.

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* The Karl Device. [[http://en.[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl-Ger%C3%A4t org/wiki/Karl-Gerat Have a look]]. The second largest calibre weapon ever fired in war, one shell weighed two tons, and each launching platform weighed 124 tonnes. Could only be effectively moved by rail, and was almost useless as tactical weapon. But ''two tons'' of explosives.
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