History AwesomeButImpractical / Military

5th Feb '16 11:25:02 AM AgProv
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Rewrote and corrected a paragraph.
** The British Churchill tank shows this brilliantly. Designed as an "infantry tank" it was meant to only go as fast an infantry as a support vehicle. This was designed AFTER the Nazi Germany showed off new high speed Blitzkrieg warfare showing infantry tanks as obsolete. The British were desperate for tank designs made after the 1920s however so they started construction. It was a horrible slab with just one upside, its impressive frontal armor. The design was reluctantly kept through the war being upgraded with even more armor and more powerful guns. Its guns were only ever moderately effective especially in regards to beasts like the soviet Is-2 with a 122mm artillery gun or german tiger with an 88mm flak gun, and its top speed was only around 15kilometers per hour compared to medium tanks which had top speeds of 45-55kilometers per hour. It was ultimately replaced by the far more practical Centurion tank.
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** The British Churchill tank shows this brilliantly. Designed as an "infantry tank" it was meant to only go as fast an as infantry as a support vehicle. This was designed AFTER the Nazi Germany showed off new high speed Blitzkrieg warfare showing infantry tanks as obsolete. The British were desperate for tank designs made after the 1920s however so they started construction. It was a horrible slab with just one upside, its impressive frontal armor. The design was reluctantly kept through at least two years behind its competitors, owing to the war being upgraded with even more armor shattering losses in France and more powerful guns. the need to keep some sort of designs in mass production. The Churchill was, therefore, a war-winning weapon for 1941 that was horridly outmoded in 1943. As Churchill commander John Foley points out in his book, Literature/MailedFist, the tank had virtues: ruggedness, mechanical reliability, and an ability to climb slopes the Germans thought were impossible for tanks. But the slow speed, and armour which though it was thick, could not withstand a Tiger, were well-known flaws. Its guns were only ever moderately effective [[note]]Foley's Churchill got three hits on a Tiger at very close range. None penetrated, and the Tiger was still able to come back with a single shot that destroyed Foley's tank, killing the driver.[[/note]] especially in regards to beasts like the soviet Soviet Is-2 with a 122mm artillery gun or german tiger German Tiger with an adapted 88mm flak gun, and its top speed was only around 15kilometers per hour compared to medium tanks which had top speeds of 45-55kilometers per hour. It was ultimately replaced partnered by the lighter Cromwell, itself a flawed design, but which paved the way for the infinitely better Comet series and then the far more practical Centurion tank.
5th Feb '16 8:15:36 AM AgProv
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adding example
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** Developing and testing these weapon can also be an own goal. Even into the 2000's, one remote island in the Western Hebrides of Scotland was still too dangerous for humans to even briefly visit, because of its use in [=WW2=] as a test-site for biological weapons such as anthrax. The issue of cleaning it up still persists nearly eighty years on.
4th Feb '16 2:22:23 AM MrCandle
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** Another example was the colossal ''Jagdtiger'', the heaviest armored vehicle used in WWII, which was essentially a Tiger II with a massive 128mm gun mounted in a fixed casemate. On one hand, it's frontal armor was nigh impenetrable and it's gun had a range of over 4 kilometres, and which distance it was still capable of going through a terraced house and destroying the US tank behind it...on the other, everything else about it. It was slow, heavy, unreliable, had a pisspoor rate of fire due to it's unique loading method (which required two men instead of one), and by the time it was employed was easy prey to air attacks.
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** Another example was the colossal ''Jagdtiger'', the heaviest armored vehicle used in WWII, which was essentially a Tiger II with a massive 128mm gun mounted in a fixed casemate. On one hand, it's its frontal armor was nigh impenetrable and it's its gun had a range of over 4 kilometres, and which distance it was still capable of going through a terraced house and destroying the US tank behind it...on the other, everything else about it. It was slow, heavy, unreliable, had a pisspoor piss-poor rate of fire due to it's its unique loading method (which required two men instead of one), and by the time it was employed was easy prey to air attacks.
16th Jan '16 11:28:14 AM Kadorhal
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you mean the page we're already on
* The Russian "Tsar" projects. After Tsar Bell and Tsar Cannon, it has become sort of Russian joke to call "tsar-something" anything impressive-looking, but unusable. Examples are on the AwesomeButImpractical/{{Military}} page.
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* The Russian "Tsar" projects. After Tsar Bell and Tsar Cannon, it has become sort of Russian joke to call "tsar-something" anything impressive-looking, but unusable. Examples are on the AwesomeButImpractical/{{Military}} page.
13th Jan '16 9:10:31 AM hullflyer
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* The jetpack, sadly, turned out to be this. Starting with the Germans in the later years of WWII, several nations attempted to build a practical jetpack for military purposes. (Though contrary to popular belief, the earliest designs were intended for short jumps rather than sustained flight. Enough to bounce over a minefield or quickly cross a river.) And sure enough, many of the designs did work. They were just too impractical. The engines were incredibly loud, they could only fly for a short time (20-30 seconds), and the pilot could get a nasty burn on his legs if he wasn't careful. Ultimately all the military applications jetpacks might have had could be done using easier, cheaper, and safer (though sometimes slower) methods. So while working jetpacks do exist, barring a revolutionary new discovery in small-scale rocket propulsion they are doomed to an eternity as scientific curiosities.
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* The jetpack, sadly, turned out to be this. Starting with the Germans in the later years of WWII, several nations attempted to build a practical jetpack for military purposes. (Though contrary to popular belief, the earliest designs were intended for short jumps rather than sustained flight. Enough to bounce over a minefield or quickly cross a river.) And sure enough, many of the designs did work. They were just too impractical. The engines were incredibly loud, they could only fly for a short time (20-30 seconds), and the pilot could get a nasty burn on his legs if he wasn't careful.careful (not to mention he could ''break'' his legs if he wasn't careful coming down). Ultimately all the military applications jetpacks might have had could be done using easier, cheaper, and safer (though sometimes slower) methods. So while working jetpacks do exist, barring a revolutionary new discovery in small-scale rocket propulsion they are doomed to an eternity as scientific curiosities.
11th Jan '16 2:11:34 PM dinohunterpat
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* Before the Cold War, most heavy bombers were armed with [[MoreDakka multiple machine gun turrets]] for defend against enemy fighters, with many WW2 iconic bombers sporting anywhere from from 8 to 13 machine guns. In theory, long-ranged bombers can only rely on themselves for protection as then existing fighters lack the range necessary for escort mission. In practice, these defense guns performed inadequately and were quickly rendered obsolete by advancements in air combat. The guns struggled against nimble fighters and were useless against ground-based anti-air weapons. Improvements in fighter speed and range, gave bombers adequate long-range fighter escorts that proved to be much more effective at reducing losses. The development of beyond-visual-range missiles gave fighters the ability to safely shoot down bombers from beyond the guns' maximum firing range. With the unsatisfactory performance of gun defenses, most post-WW2 bomber models have little to no defensive weapons, which would function as little more than deadweight at the cost of plane mobility and payload.
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* Before the Cold War, most heavy bombers were armed with [[MoreDakka multiple machine gun turrets]] for defend defense against enemy fighters, with many WW2 iconic bombers sporting anywhere from from 8 to 13 machine guns. In theory, long-ranged bombers can only rely on themselves for protection as then existing fighters lack the range necessary for escort mission. missions. In practice, these defense guns performed inadequately the usage of defensive armaments proved to be a failure due to inadequate weapon performance and were quickly rendered obsolete by advancements in air combat. The These guns struggled proved inadequate against nimble fighters [[LightningBruiser fast yet durable fighters]] and were useless against ground-based anti-air weapons. Improvements in fighter speed and range, gave bombers adequate long-range fighter escorts that proved to be much more effective at reducing losses. The Yet what ultimately [[IncrediblyLamePun shot down]] this doctrine was the development of beyond-visual-range missiles that gave fighters the ability to safely shoot down bombers from beyond the guns' maximum firing range. With the unsatisfactory performance of gun defenses, most post-WW2 bomber models have little to no defensive weapons, which would function as little more than deadweight at the cost of plane mobility and payload.
11th Jan '16 3:14:48 AM morane
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[[folder: General]] * [[ItsRainingMen Paratroops]] in general. True, they are the cream of the crop in each and every army, they can be delivered exactly where they are needed, and jumping off a perfectly good plane mid-air constitutes itself CrazyAwesome. But paratroops are light infantry, it is all too impractical to haul heavy weapons such as artillery pieces on airplane (and outright impossible to ''paradrop'' them), and the capacity of cargo planes suitable for combat jumps is restricted. Moreover, unless the drop zone is secured and the attacker has complete surprise on his side, the jump planes are easy to shoot down, usually resulting in the loss of the whole stick. Likewise, descending paratroopers are extremely vulnerable to ground fire and their own weapon and gear carry capability is severly restricted. The experience of WWII paradrop operations was that large scale paradrops usually fail and even the successful have horrendous losses, but small scale operations (up to company level) usually succeed. Helicopters have more or less superceded both gliders and paratroops in all armies around the world. * The Russian "Tsar" projects. After Tsar Bell and Tsar Cannon, it has become sort of Russian joke to call "tsar-something" anything impressive-looking, but unusable. Examples are on the AwesomeButImpractical/{{Military}} page. * Nazi Uniforms. You don't have to be a Nazi to admit they looked good - designed by... no, not Hugo Boss, but Karl Diebitsch,[[note]]At the time, Hugo Boss was just a relatively small-time clothing magnate who landed a large order to actually ''sew'' them, while Diebitsch was already an accomplished artist and the ardent Nazi, unlike the pretty indifferent Boss.[[/note]] after all - but they were uncomfortable, stiff, and got really really hot. ** Dress uniforms weren't supposed to do anything but look good. The Wehrmacht standard uniforms were a much different story. This is why all ground troops (Heer, Luftwaffe field division and Waffen SS) [[BoringButPractical had the same grey-green field uniform]] with branch-specific insignia. ** And while the dress uniforms were unpleasantly hot, the winter standard uniforms were not nearly warm enough for places like the Russian Front. * King Mongkut of Siam once tried to send a herd of elephants to American President James Buchanan to aid in transportation and as beasts of burden. By the time the letter ended up in America, Lincoln was the president, and he obviously (but politely) turned it down on the grounds that American climate is not suitable for elephants, and that steam engines would do the job better anyways. ** That's the reason of the "white elephant" term. In Thai culture white elephants are perceived as very auspicious symbols, and gifting a noble with a white elephant was one of the highest honors a king could've bestowed him with. At the same time elephants were very expensive to feed and care for, and being a King's gift it was impossible to use it as a normal working elephant to earn its own support. Thus it was a constant drain on a noble's finances, so several white elephants too many can easily bankrupt less prosperous ones. But despite all this, ''turning down'' a King's gift was not only impossible but unthinkable. So, as rumor goes, the Siamese kings sometimes used them as a hint or outright punishment for the too troublesome and/or ambitious courtiers. * The nuclear survival bunkers constructed by the U.S. and the Soviet Union during the Cold War, such as Cheyenne Mountain or Mount Weather. Theoretically they can survive a near or direct impact from a single nuclear strike and have some self-reliance for food and air, but they cost a ton to build and were built in an era when accuracy for nukes was measured in miles instead of yards. Both sides stopped building them when they realized the other side could manufacture a dozen nukes to target each bunker, something which no amount of mountain will protect you from. [[/folder]]
3rd Jan '16 10:54:27 PM Khathi
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** Both ''Ratte'' and ''Moster'' were the brainchilds of Edvard Grotte, the engineer [[MadScientist well known for his bouts of gigantism and reliance on the awesomeness]] to the detriment of practicality. During the times of the Weimar Republic, when Germany and the Soviet Union entertained a brief alliance, both being something of the pariahs to the West, he did some work in Russia, producing several designs for his Russian employers. While the first of them, the unimaginatively named Grotte Tank, AKA TG-1, [[BoringButPractical was a fairly conventional medium that advanced to the prototype stage, generally pleased everyone]], and wasn't adopted largely due to the sorry state of the early-Thirties Soviet industry, his subsequent designs were a clear indication of what will then follow. The TG-5 dwarfed even the below-mentioned T-35 in its sheer insanity, and was essentially an early version of ''Ratte'', weighing the same 1000 tons and boasting 12-inch naval guns. It was to be driven by four marine diesels and to have the 1000 mm frontal armor.
to:
** Both ''Ratte'' and ''Moster'' were the brainchilds of Edvard Grotte, the engineer [[MadScientist well known for his bouts of gigantism and reliance on the awesomeness]] to the detriment of practicality. During the times of the Weimar Republic, when Germany and the Soviet Union entertained a brief alliance, both being something of the pariahs to the West, he did some work in Russia, producing several designs for his Russian employers. While the first of them, the unimaginatively named Grotte Tank, AKA TG-1, [[BoringButPractical was a fairly conventional medium that advanced to the prototype stage, generally pleased everyone]], and wasn't adopted largely due to the sorry state of the early-Thirties Soviet industry, his subsequent designs were a clear indication of what will then follow. The TG-5 dwarfed even the below-mentioned aforementioned T-35 in its sheer insanity, and was essentially an early version of ''Ratte'', weighing the same 1000 tons and boasting 12-inch naval guns. It was to be driven by four marine diesels and to have the 1000 mm frontal armor. ** The Japanese, whose dynamics with their allies could be sometimes described as "everything that the Jerries can screw up [[UpToEleven we can screw up better]]", and their armor department [[TheAllegedCar being the proverbial redheaded stepchild]] of their military indistry, produced the [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O-I O-I]], the superheavy tank that might be best described as a [[MilitaryMashupMachine lovechild of T-35 and the Maus]]. Equipped with five turrets with [[{{BFG}} 100-to-150 mm guns]], and driven with the two naval diesels, it was to weigh from 100 to 120 tons in its various incarnations, and used for coastal defence and invasion protection. There's a very little information on this tank, but at least one prototype was reportedly built in 1944, and sent to Manchuria for trials, where it was reportedly blown up by the retreating Japanese forces during the Russian offensive the next year. The only material remains of this tank are several huge track links in some Japanese armor museums.
3rd Jan '16 10:39:45 PM Khathi
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Added DiffLines:
** Both ''Ratte'' and ''Moster'' were the brainchilds of Edvard Grotte, the engineer [[MadScientist well known for his bouts of gigantism and reliance on the awesomeness]] to the detriment of practicality. During the times of the Weimar Republic, when Germany and the Soviet Union entertained a brief alliance, both being something of the pariahs to the West, he did some work in Russia, producing several designs for his Russian employers. While the first of them, the unimaginatively named Grotte Tank, AKA TG-1, [[BoringButPractical was a fairly conventional medium that advanced to the prototype stage, generally pleased everyone]], and wasn't adopted largely due to the sorry state of the early-Thirties Soviet industry, his subsequent designs were a clear indication of what will then follow. The TG-5 dwarfed even the below-mentioned T-35 in its sheer insanity, and was essentially an early version of ''Ratte'', weighing the same 1000 tons and boasting 12-inch naval guns. It was to be driven by four marine diesels and to have the 1000 mm frontal armor.
28th Dec '15 6:56:04 PM dinohunterpat
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* Before the Cold War, most heavy bombers were armed with [[MoreDakka multiple machine gun turrets]] to defend themselves from enemy fighters with many WW2 iconic bombers sporting anywhere from from 8 to 13 machine guns. In theory, long-ranged bombers can only rely on themselves for protection as then existing fighters lack the range necessary for escort mission. In practice, these defense guns performed inadequately and were quickly rendered obsolete by advancements in air combat. The guns struggled against nimble fighters and were useless against ground-based {{AntiAir}} weapons. Improvements in fighter speed and range, gave bombers adequate long-range fighter escorts. The development of beyond-visual-range missiles gave fighters the ability to safely shoot down bombers from beyond the guns' maximum firing range. With the unsatisfactory performance of gun defenses, most post-WW2 bomber models have little to no defensive weapons, which would function as little more than deadweight at the cost of plane mobility and payload.
to:
* Before the Cold War, most heavy bombers were armed with [[MoreDakka multiple machine gun turrets]] to for defend themselves from against enemy fighters fighters, with many WW2 iconic bombers sporting anywhere from from 8 to 13 machine guns. In theory, long-ranged bombers can only rely on themselves for protection as then existing fighters lack the range necessary for escort mission. In practice, these defense guns performed inadequately and were quickly rendered obsolete by advancements in air combat. The guns struggled against nimble fighters and were useless against ground-based {{AntiAir}} anti-air weapons. Improvements in fighter speed and range, gave bombers adequate long-range fighter escorts.escorts that proved to be much more effective at reducing losses. The development of beyond-visual-range missiles gave fighters the ability to safely shoot down bombers from beyond the guns' maximum firing range. With the unsatisfactory performance of gun defenses, most post-WW2 bomber models have little to no defensive weapons, which would function as little more than deadweight at the cost of plane mobility and payload.
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