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Note: a lot of this relies on AllThereInTheManual information I grabbed off the show's wiki.

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Note: a lot of this relies on AllThereInTheManual information I grabbed off the show's wiki.
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The concept of Eternal Punishment in FireAndBrimstoneHell originated from Tartarus in ClassicalMythology, but was originally reserved for the most vile Complete Monsters. The original Jews believed in Conditional Immortality where the Fruit of Life is reserved only for believers, while sinners are "returned to dust". The Jews used the metaphor of the real-life garbage incinerator "Gehenna" to signify a place where sinners are annihilated forever. However, the concept of Gehenna gave an excuse for Tartarus to be adopted by the [[CorruptChurch then-exceedingly-corrupt]] Catholic Church who modified the concept to include all non-Christians and {{thought crim|e}}inals, in order to strike totalitarian fear into its subjects and to give an excuse to make suicide the illegal "unforgivable sin" forcing the suicidally depressed to turn to lifetime Catholic obedience instead. This obviously suffered GodIsEvil accusations, and other theologians such as [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen Origen]] proposed an alternative theory: Universal Reconciliation. If God is merciful and all forgiving, then God will have mercy on and forgive everybody. Of course, some souls that did a lot of sins and regrets in life would be delayed and "purified" for their sins before being allowed to Heaven, but eventually, in the end, [[AssimilationPlot all shall become one with God]]. They offered [[WordOfGod Word of Jesus]], such as the "Love your enemies" commandment and the "Prodigal Son" parable, as proof of concept. They also took the "Prodigal Son" parable as a metaphor for Lucifer himself; he left God thinking that it is "[[Literature/ParadiseLost Better to Reign in Hell than serve in Heaven]]," but eventually realized the futility of his ways, and God is more than happy to accept him back and forgive him. Universal Reconciliation was suppressed as {{Heresy}} by the Catholic Church, who detested the idea that Lucifer, thought-crime and victims of suicide can be forgiven. It only became popular once again during the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, where the influence of Humanism coupled with the fall of Catholic hegemony allowed widespread criticism of the "FireAndBrimstoneHell" concept to the point that it became parody, as modern-day {{satire}}s can attest. In Christian apologetics, two alternative theories to FireAndBrimstoneHell emerged: first, the aforementioned Universal Reconciliation. Second, the idea of Eternal Separation, where Hell isn't a literal place of fire and brimstone, but rather a depressing state of mind [[SelfInflictedHell where your own thoughts, memories, guilt, remorse and pessimism separate yourself from the hope and light of God for all eternity]].

to:

The concept of Eternal Punishment in FireAndBrimstoneHell originated from Tartarus in ClassicalMythology, but was originally reserved for the most vile Complete Monsters. The original Jews believed in Conditional Immortality where the Fruit of Life is reserved only for believers, while sinners are "returned to dust". The Jews used the metaphor of the real-life garbage incinerator "Gehenna" to signify a place where sinners are annihilated forever. However, the concept of Gehenna gave an excuse for Tartarus to be adopted by the [[CorruptChurch then-exceedingly-corrupt]] Catholic Church who modified the concept to include all non-Christians and {{thought crim|e}}inals, in order to strike totalitarian fear into its subjects and to give an excuse to make suicide the illegal "unforgivable sin" forcing the suicidally depressed to turn to lifetime Catholic obedience instead. This obviously suffered GodIsEvil accusations, and other theologians such as [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen Origen]] proposed an alternative theory: Universal Reconciliation.''Universal Reconciliation''. If God is merciful and all forgiving, then God will have mercy on and forgive everybody. Of course, some souls that did a lot of sins and regrets in life would be delayed and "purified" for their sins before being allowed to Heaven, but eventually, in the end, [[AssimilationPlot all shall become one with God]]. They offered [[WordOfGod Word of Jesus]], such as the "Love your enemies" commandment and the "Prodigal Son" parable, as proof of concept. They also took the "Prodigal Son" parable as a metaphor for Lucifer himself; he left God thinking that it is "[[Literature/ParadiseLost Better to Reign in Hell than serve in Heaven]]," but eventually realized the futility of his ways, and God is more than happy to accept him back and forgive him. Universal Reconciliation was suppressed as {{Heresy}} by the Catholic Church, who detested the idea that Lucifer, thought-crime and victims of suicide can be forgiven. It only became popular once again during the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, where the influence of Humanism coupled with the fall of Catholic hegemony allowed widespread criticism of the "FireAndBrimstoneHell" concept to the point that it became parody, as modern-day {{satire}}s can attest. In Christian apologetics, two alternative theories to FireAndBrimstoneHell emerged: first, the aforementioned Universal Reconciliation. Second, the idea of Eternal Separation, ''Eternal Separation'', where Hell isn't a literal place of fire and brimstone, but rather a depressing state of mind [[SelfInflictedHell where your own thoughts, memories, guilt, remorse and pessimism separate yourself from the hope and light of God for all eternity]].
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The concept of Eternal Punishment in FireAndBrimstoneHell originated from Tartarus in ClassicalMythology, but was originally reserved for the most vile Complete Monsters. The original Jews believed in Conditional Immortality where the Fruit of Life is reserved only for believers, while sinners are "returned to dust". The Jews used the metaphor of the real-life garbage incinerator "Gehenna" to signify a place where sinners are annihilated forever. However, the concept of Gehenna gave an excuse for Tartarus to be adopted by the [[CorruptChurch then-exceedingly-corrupt]] Catholic Church who modified the concept to include all non-Christians and {{thought crim|e}}inals, in order to strike totalitarian fear into its subjects and to give an excuse to make suicide the illegal "unforgivable sin" forcing the suicidally depressed to turn to lifetime Catholic obedience instead. This obviously suffered GodIsEvil accusations, and other theologians such as [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen Origen]] proposed an alternative theory: Universal Reconciliation. If God is merciful and all forgiving, then God will have mercy on and forgive everybody. Of course, some souls that did a lot of sins and regrets in life would be delayed and "purified" for their sins before being allowed to Heaven, but eventually, in the end, [[AssimilationPlot all shall become one with God]]. They offered [[WordOfGod Word of Jesus]], such as the "Love your enemies" commandment and the "Prodigal Son" parable, as proof of concept. They also took the "Prodigal Son" parable as a metaphor for Lucifer himself; he left God thinking that it is "[[Literature/ParadiseLost Better to Reign in Hell than serve in Heaven]]," but eventually realized the futility of his ways, and God is more than happy to accept him back and forgive him. Universal Reconciliation was suppressed as {{Heresy}} by the Catholic Church, who detested the idea that Lucifer, thought-crime and victims of suicide can be forgiven. It only became popular once again during the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, where the influence of Humanism coupled with the fall of Catholic hegemony allowed widespread criticism of the "FireAndBrimstoneHell" concept to the point that it became parody, as modern-day {{satire}}s can attest. In Christian apologetics, two alternative theories to FireAndBrimstoneHell emerged: first, the aforementioned Universal Reconciliation. Second, the idea of Eternal Separation, where Hell isn't a literal place of fire and brimstone, but rather a depressing state of mind [[SelfInflictedHell where your own thoughts, memories and pessimism separate yourself from the hope and light of God for all eternity]].

to:

The concept of Eternal Punishment in FireAndBrimstoneHell originated from Tartarus in ClassicalMythology, but was originally reserved for the most vile Complete Monsters. The original Jews believed in Conditional Immortality where the Fruit of Life is reserved only for believers, while sinners are "returned to dust". The Jews used the metaphor of the real-life garbage incinerator "Gehenna" to signify a place where sinners are annihilated forever. However, the concept of Gehenna gave an excuse for Tartarus to be adopted by the [[CorruptChurch then-exceedingly-corrupt]] Catholic Church who modified the concept to include all non-Christians and {{thought crim|e}}inals, in order to strike totalitarian fear into its subjects and to give an excuse to make suicide the illegal "unforgivable sin" forcing the suicidally depressed to turn to lifetime Catholic obedience instead. This obviously suffered GodIsEvil accusations, and other theologians such as [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen Origen]] proposed an alternative theory: Universal Reconciliation. If God is merciful and all forgiving, then God will have mercy on and forgive everybody. Of course, some souls that did a lot of sins and regrets in life would be delayed and "purified" for their sins before being allowed to Heaven, but eventually, in the end, [[AssimilationPlot all shall become one with God]]. They offered [[WordOfGod Word of Jesus]], such as the "Love your enemies" commandment and the "Prodigal Son" parable, as proof of concept. They also took the "Prodigal Son" parable as a metaphor for Lucifer himself; he left God thinking that it is "[[Literature/ParadiseLost Better to Reign in Hell than serve in Heaven]]," but eventually realized the futility of his ways, and God is more than happy to accept him back and forgive him. Universal Reconciliation was suppressed as {{Heresy}} by the Catholic Church, who detested the idea that Lucifer, thought-crime and victims of suicide can be forgiven. It only became popular once again during the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, where the influence of Humanism coupled with the fall of Catholic hegemony allowed widespread criticism of the "FireAndBrimstoneHell" concept to the point that it became parody, as modern-day {{satire}}s can attest. In Christian apologetics, two alternative theories to FireAndBrimstoneHell emerged: first, the aforementioned Universal Reconciliation. Second, the idea of Eternal Separation, where Hell isn't a literal place of fire and brimstone, but rather a depressing state of mind [[SelfInflictedHell where your own thoughts, memories memories, guilt, remorse and pessimism separate yourself from the hope and light of God for all eternity]].



Therefore, Witches represent Eternal Punishment[=/=]Separation, the traditional Christian view that once you are sent to Hell, you will suffer in it forever. Christian apologists try to defend this idea from GodIsEvil accusations by replying that it is not God who sends you to Hell, but rather, is it [[SelfInflictedHell you who sends yourself to Hell]] through your own thoughts and memories. Hell is not a literal place of eternal {{fire and brimstone|Hell}}, but a metaphor for a psychological state of mind suffering from angst, pessimism and depression. [[Literature/ParadiseLost The mind is its own place, can make a Heaven out of Hell or a Hell out of Heaven.]] If you are a [[TheCynic Pessimist]], then [[FinaglesLaw you would expect the worst out of everything]], and if you expect the worst out of everything, then you would think that you are in [[CrapsackWorld an inescapable Hell]] and therefore [[StrawNihilist succumb to Absolute Despair]]. If you made a depressing suicidal {{trag|edy}}ic life full of regrets and unwanted memories, then the replay of these memories would MindRape you to Absolute DespairEventHorizon, and you would become a Pessimist with low self-esteem. Your pessimism then projects an Absolute Terror Field that isolates yourself from the hope and light of God for all of eternity. Similarly, people accuse the Incubators (the Old Testament God and his angels) as sadists who manipulated the Puella Magi into Eternal Punishment, but ultimately, it is the Puella Magi themselves who adopt a Pessimistic philosophy, let themselves be corrupted to Despair, create Absolute Terror Field Barriers and become Witches. The Incubators are simply there as angels to oversee the system because it [[PoweredByAForsakenChild sustains All of Creation, with Eternal Punishment representing]] [[OrderVersusChaos a cruel form of Law and Order that protects against Entropic Chaos]].

to:

Therefore, Witches represent Eternal Punishment[=/=]Separation, the traditional Christian view that once you are sent to Hell, you will suffer in it forever. Christian apologists try to defend this idea from GodIsEvil accusations by replying that it is not God who sends you to Hell, but rather, is it [[SelfInflictedHell you who sends yourself to Hell]] through your own thoughts and memories. Hell is not a literal place of eternal {{fire and brimstone|Hell}}, but a metaphor for a psychological state of mind suffering from angst, remorse, pessimism and depression. [[Literature/ParadiseLost The mind is its own place, can make a Heaven out of Hell or a Hell out of Heaven.]] If you are a [[TheCynic Pessimist]], then [[FinaglesLaw you would expect the worst out of everything]], and if you expect the worst out of everything, then you would think that you are in [[CrapsackWorld an inescapable Hell]] and therefore [[StrawNihilist succumb to Absolute Despair]]. If you made a depressing suicidal {{trag|edy}}ic life full of regrets and unwanted memories, then the replay of these memories would MindRape you to Absolute DespairEventHorizon, and you would become a Pessimist with low self-esteem. Your pessimism then projects an Absolute Terror Field that isolates yourself from the hope and light of God for all of eternity. Similarly, people accuse the Incubators (the Old Testament God and his angels) as sadists who manipulated the Puella Magi into Eternal Punishment, but ultimately, it is the Puella Magi themselves who adopt a Pessimistic philosophy, let themselves be corrupted to Despair, create Absolute Terror Field Barriers and become Witches. The Incubators are simply there as angels to oversee the system because it [[PoweredByAForsakenChild sustains All of Creation, with Eternal Punishment representing]] [[OrderVersusChaos a cruel form of Law and Order that protects against Entropic Chaos]].
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Therefore, Witches represent Eternal Punishment[=/=]Separation, the traditional Christian view that once you are sent to Hell, you will suffer in it forever. Christian apologists try to defend this idea from GodIsEvil accusations by replying that it is not God who sends you to Hell, but rather, is it [[SelfInflictedHell you who sends yourself to Hell]] through your own thoughts and memories. Hell is not a literal place of eternal {{fire and brimstone|Hell}}, but a metaphor for a psychological state of mind suffering from angst, pessimism and depression. [[Literature/ParadiseLost The mind is its own place, can make a Heaven out of Hell or a Hell out of Heaven.]] If you are a [[TheCynic Pessimist]], then [[FinaglesLaw you would expect the worst out of everything]], and if you expect the worst out of everything, then you would think that you are in [[CrapsackWorld an inescapable Hell]] and therefore [[StrawNihilist succumb to Absolute Despair]]. If you made a depressing {{trag|edy}}ic life full of regrets and unwanted memories, such as the events that led to committing suicide, then the replay of these memories would MindRape you to Absolute DespairEventHorizon, and you would become a Pessimist with low self-esteem. Your pessimism then projects an Absolute Terror Field that isolates yourself from the hope and light of God for all of eternity. Similarly, people accuse the Incubators (the Old Testament God and his angels) as sadists who manipulated the Puella Magi into Eternal Punishment, but ultimately, it is the Puella Magi themselves who adopt a Pessimistic philosophy, let themselves be corrupted to Despair, create Absolute Terror Field Barriers and become Witches. The Incubators are simply there as angels to oversee the system because it [[PoweredByAForsakenChild sustains All of Creation, with Eternal Punishment representing]] [[OrderVersusChaos a cruel form of Law and Order that protects against Entropic Chaos]].

to:

Therefore, Witches represent Eternal Punishment[=/=]Separation, the traditional Christian view that once you are sent to Hell, you will suffer in it forever. Christian apologists try to defend this idea from GodIsEvil accusations by replying that it is not God who sends you to Hell, but rather, is it [[SelfInflictedHell you who sends yourself to Hell]] through your own thoughts and memories. Hell is not a literal place of eternal {{fire and brimstone|Hell}}, but a metaphor for a psychological state of mind suffering from angst, pessimism and depression. [[Literature/ParadiseLost The mind is its own place, can make a Heaven out of Hell or a Hell out of Heaven.]] If you are a [[TheCynic Pessimist]], then [[FinaglesLaw you would expect the worst out of everything]], and if you expect the worst out of everything, then you would think that you are in [[CrapsackWorld an inescapable Hell]] and therefore [[StrawNihilist succumb to Absolute Despair]]. If you made a depressing suicidal {{trag|edy}}ic life full of regrets and unwanted memories, such as the events that led to committing suicide, then the replay of these memories would MindRape you to Absolute DespairEventHorizon, and you would become a Pessimist with low self-esteem. Your pessimism then projects an Absolute Terror Field that isolates yourself from the hope and light of God for all of eternity. Similarly, people accuse the Incubators (the Old Testament God and his angels) as sadists who manipulated the Puella Magi into Eternal Punishment, but ultimately, it is the Puella Magi themselves who adopt a Pessimistic philosophy, let themselves be corrupted to Despair, create Absolute Terror Field Barriers and become Witches. The Incubators are simply there as angels to oversee the system because it [[PoweredByAForsakenChild sustains All of Creation, with Eternal Punishment representing]] [[OrderVersusChaos a cruel form of Law and Order that protects against Entropic Chaos]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


The concept of Eternal Punishment in FireAndBrimstoneHell originated from Tartarus in ClassicalMythology, but was originally reserved for the most vile Complete Monsters. The original Jews believed in Conditional Immortality where the Fruit of Life is reserved only for believers, while sinners are "returned to dust". The Jews used the metaphor of the real-life garbage incinerator "Gehenna" to signify a place where sinners are annihilated forever. However, the concept of Gehenna gave an excuse for Tartarus to be adopted by the [[CorruptChurch then-exceedingly-corrupt]] Catholic Church who modified the concept to include all non-Christians and {{thought crim|e}}inals, in order to strike totalitarian fear into its subjects and to give an excuse to make suicide the illegal "unforgivable sin" forcing the suicidally depressed to turn to lifetime Catholic obedience instead. This obviously suffered GodIsEvil accusations, and other theologians such as [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen Origen]] proposed an alternative theory: Universal Reconciliation. If God is merciful and all forgiving, then God will have mercy on and forgive everybody. Of course, some souls that did a lot of sins and regrets in life would be delayed and "purified" for their sins before being allowed to Heaven, but eventually, in the end, [[AssimilationPlot all shall become one with God]]. They offered [[WordOfGod Word of Jesus]], such as the "Love your enemies" commandment and the "Prodigal Son" parable, as proof of concept. They also took the "Prodigal Son" parable as a metaphor for Lucifer himself; he left God thinking that it is "[[Literature/ParadiseLost Better to Reign in Hell than serve in Heaven]]," but eventually realized the futility of his ways, and God is more than happy to accept him back and forgive him. Universal Reconciliation was suppressed by the Catholic Church, who considered the idea of Lucifer, thought-crime and suicides being forgiven as {{Heresy}}. It only became popular once again during the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, where the influence of Humanism coupled with the fall of Catholic hegemony allowed widespread criticism of the "FireAndBrimstoneHell" concept to the point that it became parody, as modern-day {{satire}}s can attest. In Christian apologetics, two alternative theories to FireAndBrimstoneHell emerged: first, the aforementioned Universal Reconciliation. Second, the idea of Eternal Separation, where Hell isn't a literal place of fire and brimstone, but rather a depressing state of mind [[SelfInflictedHell where your own thoughts, memories and pessimism separate yourself from the hope and light of God for all eternity]].

to:

The concept of Eternal Punishment in FireAndBrimstoneHell originated from Tartarus in ClassicalMythology, but was originally reserved for the most vile Complete Monsters. The original Jews believed in Conditional Immortality where the Fruit of Life is reserved only for believers, while sinners are "returned to dust". The Jews used the metaphor of the real-life garbage incinerator "Gehenna" to signify a place where sinners are annihilated forever. However, the concept of Gehenna gave an excuse for Tartarus to be adopted by the [[CorruptChurch then-exceedingly-corrupt]] Catholic Church who modified the concept to include all non-Christians and {{thought crim|e}}inals, in order to strike totalitarian fear into its subjects and to give an excuse to make suicide the illegal "unforgivable sin" forcing the suicidally depressed to turn to lifetime Catholic obedience instead. This obviously suffered GodIsEvil accusations, and other theologians such as [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen Origen]] proposed an alternative theory: Universal Reconciliation. If God is merciful and all forgiving, then God will have mercy on and forgive everybody. Of course, some souls that did a lot of sins and regrets in life would be delayed and "purified" for their sins before being allowed to Heaven, but eventually, in the end, [[AssimilationPlot all shall become one with God]]. They offered [[WordOfGod Word of Jesus]], such as the "Love your enemies" commandment and the "Prodigal Son" parable, as proof of concept. They also took the "Prodigal Son" parable as a metaphor for Lucifer himself; he left God thinking that it is "[[Literature/ParadiseLost Better to Reign in Hell than serve in Heaven]]," but eventually realized the futility of his ways, and God is more than happy to accept him back and forgive him. Universal Reconciliation was suppressed as {{Heresy}} by the Catholic Church, who considered detested the idea of that Lucifer, thought-crime and suicides being forgiven as {{Heresy}}.victims of suicide can be forgiven. It only became popular once again during the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, where the influence of Humanism coupled with the fall of Catholic hegemony allowed widespread criticism of the "FireAndBrimstoneHell" concept to the point that it became parody, as modern-day {{satire}}s can attest. In Christian apologetics, two alternative theories to FireAndBrimstoneHell emerged: first, the aforementioned Universal Reconciliation. Second, the idea of Eternal Separation, where Hell isn't a literal place of fire and brimstone, but rather a depressing state of mind [[SelfInflictedHell where your own thoughts, memories and pessimism separate yourself from the hope and light of God for all eternity]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


The concept of Eternal Punishment in FireAndBrimstoneHell originated from Tartarus in ClassicalMythology, but was originally reserved for the most vile Complete Monsters. The original Jews believed in Conditional Immortality where the Fruit of Life is reserved only for believers, while sinners are "returned to dust". The Jews used the metaphor of the real-life garbage incinerator "Gehenna" to signify a place where sinners are annihilated forever. However, the concept of Gehenna gave an excuse for Tartarus to be adopted by the [[CorruptChurch then-exceedingly-corrupt]] Catholic Church who modified the concept to include all non-Christians and {{thought crim|e}}inals, in order to strike totalitarian fear into its subjects and to give an excuse to make suicide the illegal "unforgivable sin" forcing the suicidally depressed to turn to lifetime Catholic obedience instead. This obviously suffered GodIsEvil accusations, and other theologians such as [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen Origen]] proposed an alternative theory: Universal Reconciliation. If God is merciful and all forgiving, then God will have mercy on and forgive everybody. Of course, some souls that did a lot of sins and regrets in life would be delayed and "purified" for their sins before being allowed to Heaven, but eventually, in the end, [[AssimilationPlot all shall become one with God]]. They offered [[WordOfGod Word of Jesus]], such as the "Love your enemies" commandment and the "Prodigal Son" parable, as proof of concept. This was suppressed by the Catholic Church, who considered the idea of Lucifer and suicides being forgiven as {{Heresy}}. It only became popular once again during the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, where the influence of Humanism coupled with the fall of Catholic hegemony allowed widespread criticism of the "FireAndBrimstoneHell" concept to the point that it became parody as modern-day {{satire}}s can attest. In Christian apologetics, two alternative theories to FireAndBrimstoneHell emerged: first, the aforementioned Universal Reconciliation. Second, the idea of Eternal Separation, where Hell isn't a literal place of fire and brimstone, but rather a depressing state of mind [[SelfInflictedHell where your own thoughts, memories and pessimism separate yourself from the hope and light of God for all eternity]].

to:

The concept of Eternal Punishment in FireAndBrimstoneHell originated from Tartarus in ClassicalMythology, but was originally reserved for the most vile Complete Monsters. The original Jews believed in Conditional Immortality where the Fruit of Life is reserved only for believers, while sinners are "returned to dust". The Jews used the metaphor of the real-life garbage incinerator "Gehenna" to signify a place where sinners are annihilated forever. However, the concept of Gehenna gave an excuse for Tartarus to be adopted by the [[CorruptChurch then-exceedingly-corrupt]] Catholic Church who modified the concept to include all non-Christians and {{thought crim|e}}inals, in order to strike totalitarian fear into its subjects and to give an excuse to make suicide the illegal "unforgivable sin" forcing the suicidally depressed to turn to lifetime Catholic obedience instead. This obviously suffered GodIsEvil accusations, and other theologians such as [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen Origen]] proposed an alternative theory: Universal Reconciliation. If God is merciful and all forgiving, then God will have mercy on and forgive everybody. Of course, some souls that did a lot of sins and regrets in life would be delayed and "purified" for their sins before being allowed to Heaven, but eventually, in the end, [[AssimilationPlot all shall become one with God]]. They offered [[WordOfGod Word of Jesus]], such as the "Love your enemies" commandment and the "Prodigal Son" parable, as proof of concept. This They also took the "Prodigal Son" parable as a metaphor for Lucifer himself; he left God thinking that it is "[[Literature/ParadiseLost Better to Reign in Hell than serve in Heaven]]," but eventually realized the futility of his ways, and God is more than happy to accept him back and forgive him. Universal Reconciliation was suppressed by the Catholic Church, who considered the idea of Lucifer Lucifer, thought-crime and suicides being forgiven as {{Heresy}}. It only became popular once again during the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, where the influence of Humanism coupled with the fall of Catholic hegemony allowed widespread criticism of the "FireAndBrimstoneHell" concept to the point that it became parody parody, as modern-day {{satire}}s can attest. In Christian apologetics, two alternative theories to FireAndBrimstoneHell emerged: first, the aforementioned Universal Reconciliation. Second, the idea of Eternal Separation, where Hell isn't a literal place of fire and brimstone, but rather a depressing state of mind [[SelfInflictedHell where your own thoughts, memories and pessimism separate yourself from the hope and light of God for all eternity]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


The concept of Eternal Punishment in FireAndBrimstoneHell originated from Tartarus in ClassicalMythology, but was originally reserved for the most vile Complete Monsters. The original Jews believed in Conditional Immortality where the Fruit of Life is reserved only for believers, while sinners are "returned to dust". The Jews used the metaphor of the real-life garbage incinerator "Gehenna" to signify a place where sinners are annihilated forever. However, the concept of Gehenna gave an excuse for Tartarus to be adopted by the [[CorruptChurch then-exceedingly-corrupt]] Catholic Church who modified the concept to include all non-Christians, in order to strike totalitarian fear into its subjects and to give an excuse to make suicide illegal. This obviously suffered GodIsEvil accusations, and other theologians such as [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen Origen]] proposed an alternative theory: Universal Reconciliation. If God is all forgiving, then God will forgive everybody. Of course, some souls that did a lot of sins and regrets in life would be delayed and "purified" for their sins before being allowed to Heaven, but eventually, in the end, [[AssimilationPlot all shall become one with God]]. They offered [[WordOfGod Word of Jesus]], such as the "Love your enemies" commandment and the "Prodigal Son" parable, as proof of concept. This was suppressed by the Catholic Church, who considered the idea of Lucifer being forgiven as Heresy. It only became popular once again during the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, where the influence of Humanism coupled with the fall of Catholic hegemony allowed widespread criticism of the "FireAndBrimstoneHell" concept to the point that it became parody. In Christian apologetics, two alternative theories to FireAndBrimstoneHell emerged: first, the aforementioned Universal Reconciliation. Second, the idea of Eternal Separation, where Hell isn't a literal place of fire and brimstone, but rather a depressing state of mind [[SelfInflictedHell where your own thoughts, memories and pessimism separate yourself from the hope and light of God for all eternity]].

to:

The concept of Eternal Punishment in FireAndBrimstoneHell originated from Tartarus in ClassicalMythology, but was originally reserved for the most vile Complete Monsters. The original Jews believed in Conditional Immortality where the Fruit of Life is reserved only for believers, while sinners are "returned to dust". The Jews used the metaphor of the real-life garbage incinerator "Gehenna" to signify a place where sinners are annihilated forever. However, the concept of Gehenna gave an excuse for Tartarus to be adopted by the [[CorruptChurch then-exceedingly-corrupt]] Catholic Church who modified the concept to include all non-Christians, non-Christians and {{thought crim|e}}inals, in order to strike totalitarian fear into its subjects and to give an excuse to make suicide illegal.the illegal "unforgivable sin" forcing the suicidally depressed to turn to lifetime Catholic obedience instead. This obviously suffered GodIsEvil accusations, and other theologians such as [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen Origen]] proposed an alternative theory: Universal Reconciliation. If God is merciful and all forgiving, then God will have mercy on and forgive everybody. Of course, some souls that did a lot of sins and regrets in life would be delayed and "purified" for their sins before being allowed to Heaven, but eventually, in the end, [[AssimilationPlot all shall become one with God]]. They offered [[WordOfGod Word of Jesus]], such as the "Love your enemies" commandment and the "Prodigal Son" parable, as proof of concept. This was suppressed by the Catholic Church, who considered the idea of Lucifer and suicides being forgiven as Heresy. {{Heresy}}. It only became popular once again during the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, where the influence of Humanism coupled with the fall of Catholic hegemony allowed widespread criticism of the "FireAndBrimstoneHell" concept to the point that it became parody.parody as modern-day {{satire}}s can attest. In Christian apologetics, two alternative theories to FireAndBrimstoneHell emerged: first, the aforementioned Universal Reconciliation. Second, the idea of Eternal Separation, where Hell isn't a literal place of fire and brimstone, but rather a depressing state of mind [[SelfInflictedHell where your own thoughts, memories and pessimism separate yourself from the hope and light of God for all eternity]].



Therefore, Witches represent Eternal Punishment[=/=]Separation, the traditional Christian view that once you are sent to Hell, you will suffer in it forever. Christian apologists try to defend this idea from GodIsEvil accusations by replying that it is not God who sends you to Hell, but rather, is it [[SelfInflictedHell you who sends yourself to Hell]] through your own thoughts and memories. Hell is not a literal place of eternal {{fire and brimstone|Hell}}, but a metaphor for a psychological state of mind suffering from angst, pessimism and depression. [[Literature/ParadiseLost The mind is its own place, can make a Heaven out of Hell or a Hell out of Heaven.]] If you are a [[TheCynic Pessimist]], then [[FinaglesLaw you would expect the worst out of everything]], and if you expect the worst out of everything, then you would think that you are in [[CrapsackWorld an inescapable Hell]] and therefore [[StrawNihilist succumb to Absolute Despair]]. If you made a depressing {{trag|edy}}ic life full of regrets and unwanted memories, then the replay of these memories would MindRape you to Absolute DespairEventHorizon, and you would become a Pessimist with low self-esteem. Your pessimism then projects an Absolute Terror Field that isolates yourself from the hope and light of God for all of eternity. Similarly, people accuse the Incubators (the Old Testament God and his angels) as sadists who manipulated the Puella Magi into Eternal Punishment, but ultimately, it is the Puella Magi themselves who adopt a Pessimistic philosophy, let themselves be corrupted to Despair, create Absolute Terror Field Barriers and become Witches. The Incubators are simply there as angels to oversee the system because it [[PoweredByAForsakenChild sustains All of Creation, with Eternal Punishment representing]] [[OrderVersusChaos a cruel form of Law and Order that protects against Entropic Chaos]].

to:

Therefore, Witches represent Eternal Punishment[=/=]Separation, the traditional Christian view that once you are sent to Hell, you will suffer in it forever. Christian apologists try to defend this idea from GodIsEvil accusations by replying that it is not God who sends you to Hell, but rather, is it [[SelfInflictedHell you who sends yourself to Hell]] through your own thoughts and memories. Hell is not a literal place of eternal {{fire and brimstone|Hell}}, but a metaphor for a psychological state of mind suffering from angst, pessimism and depression. [[Literature/ParadiseLost The mind is its own place, can make a Heaven out of Hell or a Hell out of Heaven.]] If you are a [[TheCynic Pessimist]], then [[FinaglesLaw you would expect the worst out of everything]], and if you expect the worst out of everything, then you would think that you are in [[CrapsackWorld an inescapable Hell]] and therefore [[StrawNihilist succumb to Absolute Despair]]. If you made a depressing {{trag|edy}}ic life full of regrets and unwanted memories, such as the events that led to committing suicide, then the replay of these memories would MindRape you to Absolute DespairEventHorizon, and you would become a Pessimist with low self-esteem. Your pessimism then projects an Absolute Terror Field that isolates yourself from the hope and light of God for all of eternity. Similarly, people accuse the Incubators (the Old Testament God and his angels) as sadists who manipulated the Puella Magi into Eternal Punishment, but ultimately, it is the Puella Magi themselves who adopt a Pessimistic philosophy, let themselves be corrupted to Despair, create Absolute Terror Field Barriers and become Witches. The Incubators are simply there as angels to oversee the system because it [[PoweredByAForsakenChild sustains All of Creation, with Eternal Punishment representing]] [[OrderVersusChaos a cruel form of Law and Order that protects against Entropic Chaos]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
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The concept of Eternal Punishment in FireAndBrimstoneHell originated from the Greek concept of Tartarus, but was originally reserved for the most vile Complete Monsters. The original Jews believed in Conditional Immortality where the Fruit of Life is reserved only for believers, while sinners are "returned to dust". Tartarus was adopted by the Catholic Church and modified the concept to include all non-Christians, in order to strike totalitarian fear into its subjects and to give an excuse to make suicide illegal. This obviously suffered GodIsEvil accusations, and other theologians such as [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen Origen]] proposed an alternative theory: Universal Reconciliation. If God is all forgiving, then God will forgive everybody. Of course, some souls that did a lot of sins and regrets in life would be delayed and "purified" for their sins before being allowed to Heaven, but eventually, in the end, [[AssimilationPlot all shall become one with God]]. They offered [[WordOfGod Word of Jesus]], such as the "Love your enemies" commandment and the "Prodigal Son" parable, as proof of concept. This was suppressed by the Catholic Church, who considered the idea of Lucifer being forgiven as Heresy. It only became popular once again during the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, where the influence of Humanism coupled with the fall of Catholic hegemony allowed widespread criticism of the "FireAndBrimstoneHell" concept to the point that it became parody. In Christian apologetics, two alternative theories to FireAndBrimstoneHell emerged: first, the aforementioned Universal Reconciliation. Second, the idea of Eternal Separation, where Hell isn't a literal place of fire and brimstone, but rather a depressing state of mind [[SelfInflictedHell where your own thoughts, memories and pessimism separate yourself from the hope and light of God for all eternity]].

to:

The concept of Eternal Punishment in FireAndBrimstoneHell originated from the Greek concept of Tartarus, Tartarus in ClassicalMythology, but was originally reserved for the most vile Complete Monsters. The original Jews believed in Conditional Immortality where the Fruit of Life is reserved only for believers, while sinners are "returned to dust". The Jews used the metaphor of the real-life garbage incinerator "Gehenna" to signify a place where sinners are annihilated forever. However, the concept of Gehenna gave an excuse for Tartarus was to be adopted by the [[CorruptChurch then-exceedingly-corrupt]] Catholic Church and who modified the concept to include all non-Christians, in order to strike totalitarian fear into its subjects and to give an excuse to make suicide illegal. This obviously suffered GodIsEvil accusations, and other theologians such as [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen Origen]] proposed an alternative theory: Universal Reconciliation. If God is all forgiving, then God will forgive everybody. Of course, some souls that did a lot of sins and regrets in life would be delayed and "purified" for their sins before being allowed to Heaven, but eventually, in the end, [[AssimilationPlot all shall become one with God]]. They offered [[WordOfGod Word of Jesus]], such as the "Love your enemies" commandment and the "Prodigal Son" parable, as proof of concept. This was suppressed by the Catholic Church, who considered the idea of Lucifer being forgiven as Heresy. It only became popular once again during the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, where the influence of Humanism coupled with the fall of Catholic hegemony allowed widespread criticism of the "FireAndBrimstoneHell" concept to the point that it became parody. In Christian apologetics, two alternative theories to FireAndBrimstoneHell emerged: first, the aforementioned Universal Reconciliation. Second, the idea of Eternal Separation, where Hell isn't a literal place of fire and brimstone, but rather a depressing state of mind [[SelfInflictedHell where your own thoughts, memories and pessimism separate yourself from the hope and light of God for all eternity]].



Therefore, Witches represent Eternal Punishment, the traditional Christian view that once you are sent to Hell, you will suffer in it forever. Christian apologists try to defend this idea from GodIsEvil accusations by replying that it is not God who sends you to Hell, but rather, is it [[SelfInflictedHell you who sends yourself to Hell]] through your own thoughts and memories. Hell is not a literal place of eternal {{fire and brimstone|Hell}}, but a metaphor for a psychological state of mind suffering from angst, pessimism and depression. [[Literature/ParadiseLost The mind is its own place, can make a Heaven out of Hell or a Hell out of Heaven.]] If you are a [[TheCynic Pessimist]], then [[FinaglesLaw you would expect the worst out of everything]], and if you expect the worst out of everything, then you would think that you are in [[CrapsackWorld an inescapable Hell]] and therefore [[StrawNihilist succumb to Absolute Despair]]. If you made a depressing {{trag|edy}}ic life full of regrets and unwanted memories, then the replay of these memories would MindRape you to Absolute DespairEventHorizon, and you would become a Pessimist with low self-esteem. Your pessimism then projects an Absolute Terror Field that isolates yourself from the hope and light of God for all of eternity. Similarly, people accuse the Incubators (the Old Testament God and his angels) as sadists who manipulated the Puella Magi into Eternal Punishment, but ultimately, it is the Puella Magi themselves who adopt a Pessimistic philosophy, let themselves be corrupted to Despair, create Absolute Terror Field Barriers and become Witches. The Incubators are simply there as angels to oversee the system because it [[PoweredByAForsakenChild sustains All of Creation, with Eternal Punishment representing]] [[OrderVersusChaos a cruel form of Law and Order that protects against Entropic Chaos]].

to:

Therefore, Witches represent Eternal Punishment, Punishment[=/=]Separation, the traditional Christian view that once you are sent to Hell, you will suffer in it forever. Christian apologists try to defend this idea from GodIsEvil accusations by replying that it is not God who sends you to Hell, but rather, is it [[SelfInflictedHell you who sends yourself to Hell]] through your own thoughts and memories. Hell is not a literal place of eternal {{fire and brimstone|Hell}}, but a metaphor for a psychological state of mind suffering from angst, pessimism and depression. [[Literature/ParadiseLost The mind is its own place, can make a Heaven out of Hell or a Hell out of Heaven.]] If you are a [[TheCynic Pessimist]], then [[FinaglesLaw you would expect the worst out of everything]], and if you expect the worst out of everything, then you would think that you are in [[CrapsackWorld an inescapable Hell]] and therefore [[StrawNihilist succumb to Absolute Despair]]. If you made a depressing {{trag|edy}}ic life full of regrets and unwanted memories, then the replay of these memories would MindRape you to Absolute DespairEventHorizon, and you would become a Pessimist with low self-esteem. Your pessimism then projects an Absolute Terror Field that isolates yourself from the hope and light of God for all of eternity. Similarly, people accuse the Incubators (the Old Testament God and his angels) as sadists who manipulated the Puella Magi into Eternal Punishment, but ultimately, it is the Puella Magi themselves who adopt a Pessimistic philosophy, let themselves be corrupted to Despair, create Absolute Terror Field Barriers and become Witches. The Incubators are simply there as angels to oversee the system because it [[PoweredByAForsakenChild sustains All of Creation, with Eternal Punishment representing]] [[OrderVersusChaos a cruel form of Law and Order that protects against Entropic Chaos]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

!''Madoka Magica'': A theological treatise describing the contrast between Eternal Punishment and Universal Reconciliation?
The concept of Eternal Punishment in FireAndBrimstoneHell originated from the Greek concept of Tartarus, but was originally reserved for the most vile Complete Monsters. The original Jews believed in Conditional Immortality where the Fruit of Life is reserved only for believers, while sinners are "returned to dust". Tartarus was adopted by the Catholic Church and modified the concept to include all non-Christians, in order to strike totalitarian fear into its subjects and to give an excuse to make suicide illegal. This obviously suffered GodIsEvil accusations, and other theologians such as [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen Origen]] proposed an alternative theory: Universal Reconciliation. If God is all forgiving, then God will forgive everybody. Of course, some souls that did a lot of sins and regrets in life would be delayed and "purified" for their sins before being allowed to Heaven, but eventually, in the end, [[AssimilationPlot all shall become one with God]]. They offered [[WordOfGod Word of Jesus]], such as the "Love your enemies" commandment and the "Prodigal Son" parable, as proof of concept. This was suppressed by the Catholic Church, who considered the idea of Lucifer being forgiven as Heresy. It only became popular once again during the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, where the influence of Humanism coupled with the fall of Catholic hegemony allowed widespread criticism of the "FireAndBrimstoneHell" concept to the point that it became parody. In Christian apologetics, two alternative theories to FireAndBrimstoneHell emerged: first, the aforementioned Universal Reconciliation. Second, the idea of Eternal Separation, where Hell isn't a literal place of fire and brimstone, but rather a depressing state of mind [[SelfInflictedHell where your own thoughts, memories and pessimism separate yourself from the hope and light of God for all eternity]].

Mapping onto ''Madoka'': When a Puella Magi suffers Absolute DespairEventHorizon, she transforms into a Witch isolated in her own Barrier. If you would observe the Witches' Barriers, you can see that they are [[Anime/NeonGenesisEvangelion Absolute Terror Fields]] serving as [[IronicHell psychological museums about the most profound regrets, negative emotions, unwanted memories and guilts made by a Puella Magi in life]]. For example, Oktavia (Sayaka) has one of her familiars representing Kyousuke, who represents her most painful regret in life. He, that symbol of regret, will always be there in front of her, impossible to remove. The Puella Magi's soul is essentially {{Mind Rape}}d by this SelfInflictedHell of traumatic memories, [[AndIMustScream for all of eternity]].

Therefore, Witches represent Eternal Punishment, the traditional Christian view that once you are sent to Hell, you will suffer in it forever. Christian apologists try to defend this idea from GodIsEvil accusations by replying that it is not God who sends you to Hell, but rather, is it [[SelfInflictedHell you who sends yourself to Hell]] through your own thoughts and memories. Hell is not a literal place of eternal {{fire and brimstone|Hell}}, but a metaphor for a psychological state of mind suffering from angst, pessimism and depression. [[Literature/ParadiseLost The mind is its own place, can make a Heaven out of Hell or a Hell out of Heaven.]] If you are a [[TheCynic Pessimist]], then [[FinaglesLaw you would expect the worst out of everything]], and if you expect the worst out of everything, then you would think that you are in [[CrapsackWorld an inescapable Hell]] and therefore [[StrawNihilist succumb to Absolute Despair]]. If you made a depressing {{trag|edy}}ic life full of regrets and unwanted memories, then the replay of these memories would MindRape you to Absolute DespairEventHorizon, and you would become a Pessimist with low self-esteem. Your pessimism then projects an Absolute Terror Field that isolates yourself from the hope and light of God for all of eternity. Similarly, people accuse the Incubators (the Old Testament God and his angels) as sadists who manipulated the Puella Magi into Eternal Punishment, but ultimately, it is the Puella Magi themselves who adopt a Pessimistic philosophy, let themselves be corrupted to Despair, create Absolute Terror Field Barriers and become Witches. The Incubators are simply there as angels to oversee the system because it [[PoweredByAForsakenChild sustains All of Creation, with Eternal Punishment representing]] [[OrderVersusChaos a cruel form of Law and Order that protects against Entropic Chaos]].

Realizing the injustice of the order, Madoka, aka the all-forgiving Messiah, sacrificed herself, modified the entire system, and ascended to Heaven as a God, existing at every point in space and time yet transcendent from it. She overthrew the Incubators for a while and allowed the Puella Magi, who would rather be condemned to their own Hell forever, a chance of repentance. Sayaka, who would rather have become the eternally suffering Oktavia, was therapeutically helped by post-ascension Madoka come to terms with the choices she made in life. Kyousuke no longer represents Sayaka's biggest regrets. Instead, he represents how at the very least, [[ForHappiness she made other people happy]], and [[GoodFeelsGood that in itself makes her happy]], allowing her to accept the final afterlife of contentment that Madoka made for her.

Madoka, the Messiah, represents Universal Reconciliation, the all-forgiving Jesus Christ who shall redeem all souls to Nirvana. She even forgives the Incubators, knowing that they have [[WellIntentionedExtremist the good intention of protecting the universe against Entropic Chaos]], and [[AncientAstronauts gave mankind Civilization]]. That's why she did not annihilate them, but simply removed the Eternal Punishment of the Witches and replaced it with a weaker, but nonetheless more forgiving, system. In the meantime, the dichotomy of Puella Magi and Demons still exist to represent Order against Chaos, and some souls that did a lot of sins and regrets in life would be delayed and "purified" for their sins before being allowed to Heaven. But eventually, in the end, [[AssimilationPlot all shall become one with God[=/=]Madoka]].
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* '''Oktavia von Seckendorff''': Hooo, boy, this is going to be a long (and spoileriffic!) one. This is the witch who appeared in episodes 8 and 9. A slightly different version appeared in episode 10. She also [[spoiler:used to be Sayaka]], which gives us a ''lot'' of extra insight into the symbolism behind her barrier and appearance. She appears as a mermaid with three heads and the upper half of her body clad in plate armor and heraldic symbols, wearing a cape and carrying a giant sword. The cape and sword [[spoiler:are holdovers from her magical girl form, and the armor represents her KnightInShiningArmor tendencies]]. The mermaid tail, especially combined with her profile's description of her as "prone to falling in love," is probably in reference to Hans Christian Anderson's version of "The Little Mermaid." [[spoiler:Sayaka's story, suffering to please the man she loves who ultimately rejects her anyway, closely parallels the original fairy tale.]] Coupled with the heraldry, it also brings to mind the myth of [[http://images.puella-magi.net/5/5d/Melusine_information.jpg Melusine]]; it should also be noted that Goethe wrote a version of this story. Her barrier is full of music-related symbols, to the point where many of the runes are actually written in a variant font that resembles musical notes or instruments. The hallway that Kyouko first enters by is covered in concert posters[[note]]Although most of them actually just say "Look at me"; I'll get to that in a minute[[/note]], while the room at the center of the maze resembles a concert hall, packed to the roof and housing a ghost orchestra. [[spoiler:This is, naturally, connected to Kyousuke and her wish for him to be able to play again. At one point, a figure that appears to be him can be seen standing in the center of the concert hall stage, holding a violin.]] Like most of the witches, she has a MadnessMantra written in runes throughout her barrier: "Look at me!" [[spoiler:This comes from her frustration at Kyousuke ignoring her despite all her efforts to comfort and help him. She wants him to notice her, but he didn't even bother to tell her when he got out of the hospital.]] Her name also bears some analysis. "Oktavia" is derived from the Latin word for "eight," and is probably intended as another musical connection (an octave is an interval of eight notes). Her last name is likely a reference to the poet Karl Siegmund von Seckendorff, who wrote a novel titled ''The Wheel of Fate'' (which explains Oktavia's wheel attack) and set part of ''Theatre/{{Faust}}'' to music. (Alternately, the wheels may be in reference to the [[TarotMotifs Wheel of Fortune tarot card]]; it represents possibilities, opportunities, and sudden changes, which would certainly be appropriate. Or it could just be a reference to [[spoiler: the train aboard which Sayaka crossed her MoralEventHorizon; it's implied that she '''murdered''' a pair of bartenders whom she heard spouting misogynistic sentiments]].)

to:

* '''Oktavia von Seckendorff''': Hooo, boy, this is going to be a long (and spoileriffic!) one. This is the witch who appeared in episodes 8 and 9. A slightly different version appeared in episode 10. She also [[spoiler:used to be Sayaka]], which gives us a ''lot'' of extra insight into the symbolism behind her barrier and appearance. She appears as a mermaid with three heads and the upper half of her body clad in plate armor and heraldic symbols, wearing a cape and carrying a giant sword. The cape and sword [[spoiler:are holdovers from her magical girl form, and the armor represents her KnightInShiningArmor tendencies]]. The mermaid tail, especially combined with her profile's description of her as "prone to falling in love," is probably in reference to Hans Christian Anderson's version of "The Little Mermaid." [[spoiler:Sayaka's story, suffering to please the man she loves who ultimately rejects her anyway, closely parallels the original fairy tale. In the end, her earthly goal was doomed to failure, and it's only through divine intervention after death that her soul is saved.]] Coupled with the heraldry, it also brings to mind the myth of [[http://images.puella-magi.net/5/5d/Melusine_information.jpg Melusine]]; it should also be noted that Goethe wrote a version of this story. Her barrier is full of music-related symbols, to the point where many of the runes are actually written in a variant font that resembles musical notes or instruments. The hallway that Kyouko first enters by is covered in concert posters[[note]]Although most of them actually just say "Look at me"; I'll get to that in a minute[[/note]], while the room at the center of the maze resembles a concert hall, packed to the roof and housing a ghost orchestra. [[spoiler:This is, naturally, connected to Kyousuke and her wish for him to be able to play again. At one point, a figure that appears to be him can be seen standing in the center of the concert hall stage, holding a violin.]] Like most of the witches, she has a MadnessMantra written in runes throughout her barrier: "Look at me!" [[spoiler:This comes from her frustration at Kyousuke ignoring her despite all her efforts to comfort and help him. She wants him to notice her, but he didn't even bother to tell her when he got out of the hospital.]] Her name also bears some analysis. "Oktavia" is derived from the Latin word for "eight," and is probably intended as another musical connection (an octave is an interval of eight notes). Her last name is likely a reference to the poet Karl Siegmund von Seckendorff, who wrote a novel titled ''The Wheel of Fate'' (which explains Oktavia's wheel attack) and set part of ''Theatre/{{Faust}}'' to music. (Alternately, the wheels may be in reference to the [[TarotMotifs Wheel of Fortune tarot card]]; it represents possibilities, opportunities, and sudden changes, which would certainly be appropriate. Or it could just be a reference to [[spoiler: the train aboard which Sayaka crossed her MoralEventHorizon; it's implied that she '''murdered''' a pair of bartenders whom she heard spouting misogynistic sentiments]].)
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Hottip cleanup


* '''Oktavia von Seckendorff''': Hooo, boy, this is going to be a long (and spoileriffic!) one. This is the witch who appeared in episodes 8 and 9. A slightly different version appeared in episode 10. She also [[spoiler:used to be Sayaka]], which gives us a ''lot'' of extra insight into the symbolism behind her barrier and appearance. She appears as a mermaid with three heads and the upper half of her body clad in plate armor and heraldic symbols, wearing a cape and carrying a giant sword. The cape and sword [[spoiler:are holdovers from her magical girl form, and the armor represents her KnightInShiningArmor tendencies]]. The mermaid tail, especially combined with her profile's description of her as "prone to falling in love," is probably in reference to Hans Christian Anderson's version of "The Little Mermaid." [[spoiler:Sayaka's story, suffering to please the man she loves who ultimately rejects her anyway, closely parallels the original fairy tale.]] Coupled with the heraldry, it also brings to mind the myth of [[http://images.puella-magi.net/5/5d/Melusine_information.jpg Melusine]]; it should also be noted that Goethe wrote a version of this story. Her barrier is full of music-related symbols, to the point where many of the runes are actually written in a variant font that resembles musical notes or instruments. The hallway that Kyouko first enters by is covered in concert posters[[hottip:*:Although most of them actually just say "Look at me"; I'll get to that in a minute]], while the room at the center of the maze resembles a concert hall, packed to the roof and housing a ghost orchestra. [[spoiler:This is, naturally, connected to Kyousuke and her wish for him to be able to play again. At one point, a figure that appears to be him can be seen standing in the center of the concert hall stage, holding a violin.]] Like most of the witches, she has a MadnessMantra written in runes throughout her barrier: "Look at me!" [[spoiler:This comes from her frustration at Kyousuke ignoring her despite all her efforts to comfort and help him. She wants him to notice her, but he didn't even bother to tell her when he got out of the hospital.]] Her name also bears some analysis. "Oktavia" is derived from the Latin word for "eight," and is probably intended as another musical connection (an octave is an interval of eight notes). Her last name is likely a reference to the poet Karl Siegmund von Seckendorff, who wrote a novel titled ''The Wheel of Fate'' (which explains Oktavia's wheel attack) and set part of ''Theatre/{{Faust}}'' to music. (Alternately, the wheels may be in reference to the [[TarotMotifs Wheel of Fortune tarot card]]; it represents possibilities, opportunities, and sudden changes, which would certainly be appropriate. Or it could just be a reference to [[spoiler: the train aboard which Sayaka crossed her MoralEventHorizon; it's implied that she '''murdered''' a pair of bartenders whom she heard spouting misogynistic sentiments]].)

to:

* '''Oktavia von Seckendorff''': Hooo, boy, this is going to be a long (and spoileriffic!) one. This is the witch who appeared in episodes 8 and 9. A slightly different version appeared in episode 10. She also [[spoiler:used to be Sayaka]], which gives us a ''lot'' of extra insight into the symbolism behind her barrier and appearance. She appears as a mermaid with three heads and the upper half of her body clad in plate armor and heraldic symbols, wearing a cape and carrying a giant sword. The cape and sword [[spoiler:are holdovers from her magical girl form, and the armor represents her KnightInShiningArmor tendencies]]. The mermaid tail, especially combined with her profile's description of her as "prone to falling in love," is probably in reference to Hans Christian Anderson's version of "The Little Mermaid." [[spoiler:Sayaka's story, suffering to please the man she loves who ultimately rejects her anyway, closely parallels the original fairy tale.]] Coupled with the heraldry, it also brings to mind the myth of [[http://images.puella-magi.net/5/5d/Melusine_information.jpg Melusine]]; it should also be noted that Goethe wrote a version of this story. Her barrier is full of music-related symbols, to the point where many of the runes are actually written in a variant font that resembles musical notes or instruments. The hallway that Kyouko first enters by is covered in concert posters[[hottip:*:Although posters[[note]]Although most of them actually just say "Look at me"; I'll get to that in a minute]], minute[[/note]], while the room at the center of the maze resembles a concert hall, packed to the roof and housing a ghost orchestra. [[spoiler:This is, naturally, connected to Kyousuke and her wish for him to be able to play again. At one point, a figure that appears to be him can be seen standing in the center of the concert hall stage, holding a violin.]] Like most of the witches, she has a MadnessMantra written in runes throughout her barrier: "Look at me!" [[spoiler:This comes from her frustration at Kyousuke ignoring her despite all her efforts to comfort and help him. She wants him to notice her, but he didn't even bother to tell her when he got out of the hospital.]] Her name also bears some analysis. "Oktavia" is derived from the Latin word for "eight," and is probably intended as another musical connection (an octave is an interval of eight notes). Her last name is likely a reference to the poet Karl Siegmund von Seckendorff, who wrote a novel titled ''The Wheel of Fate'' (which explains Oktavia's wheel attack) and set part of ''Theatre/{{Faust}}'' to music. (Alternately, the wheels may be in reference to the [[TarotMotifs Wheel of Fortune tarot card]]; it represents possibilities, opportunities, and sudden changes, which would certainly be appropriate. Or it could just be a reference to [[spoiler: the train aboard which Sayaka crossed her MoralEventHorizon; it's implied that she '''murdered''' a pair of bartenders whom she heard spouting misogynistic sentiments]].)
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* WithGreatPowerComesGreatResponsibility: In this series being a MagicalGirl isn't a synonym for being a heroine. As Kyoko shows, some people would actually [[ComesGreatPerks use that power simply for the perks]].

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* WithGreatPowerComesGreatResponsibility: WithGreatPowerComesGreatResponsibility and ForGreatJustice: In this series being a MagicalGirl isn't a synonym for being a heroine. As Kyoko shows, some people would actually [[ComesGreatPerks use that power simply for the perks]].




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* MentorMascot and TheNeedsOfTheMany: The mascot's role is usually to guide the newly awoken/created/etc. magical girls through their task, often instructed to do so by a higher (usually good) power who cares about humanity's well-being. Incubators, on the other hand, use humans as the means to an end. While their intentions may ultimately be good, they are too utterly removed from any human concerns.

Changed: 119

Removed: 110

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** Some also think that [[spoiler: Kirsten may have been, or wished to be, a net idol. This is partly due to her silhouette having more than a passing resemblance to [[{{Vocaloid}} Miku Hatsune]].]]
** According to the official guidebook, [[spoiler:the human Kirsten's wish was to preserve a memory forever.]]

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** Some also think that [[spoiler: Kirsten may have been, or wished wanted to be, a net idol. This is partly due to her silhouette having more than a passing resemblance to [[{{Vocaloid}} Miku Hatsune]].]]
**
]] According to the official guidebook, [[spoiler:the human Kirsten's wish was to preserve a memory forever.]]

Changed: 1351

Removed: 1768

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* '''Charlotte''': The dessert witch in Episode 3, and [[spoiler:an accomplished KnightOfCerebus]]. Her barrier is pretty much made entirely of food, especially cake, but according to her profile, her favorite food is cheese... which she can't make, since it's not a dessert. There's also a bit of a medical motif (pills, minions in nurse hats), and her Grief Seed was found stuck in a wall by a hospital. Her profile says that she wants everything and never gives up; this latter comes across in her second form, which just produces a new copy of itself when injured. Her real body resembles a doll, and even appears to be sitting and having a tea party. "Charlotte" is also the name of a kind of dessert. [[spoiler:She almost certainly wished for cake[[hottip:*:Puts an even nastier spin on Mami's wish suggestion, don't it?]]; one theory is that she was an hospitalized IllGirl, and wanted the food she couldn't have on a patient's diet, which would also explain the location of her Grief Seed. It's also speculated that, if she ''was'' an IllGirl prior to becoming a MagicalGirl and then a Witch, then her illness may have been [[LittlestCancerPatient cancer]]: Charlotte's profile says that her TrademarkFavoriteFood is cheese, and patients subjected to chemotherapy aren't permitted dairy products.]]
** 'Tis also speculated that Charlotte is [[spoiler:the green-haired girl from ''[[Manga/PuellaMagiOrikoMagica Oriko]]'']].
*** This speculation is {{Jossed}}, as Charlotte appears in witch-form in ''Oriko Magica''. The green-haired girl is Yuma.
*** [[spoiler:At the very end of the anime, a motif shot is shown with all of the magical girls seen in the anime, even those seen only as witches. One of the girls has hair similar to Charlotte's (first form); this is very likely to be her.]]
*** Link to said motif shot, please?
*** [[http://images.puella-magi.net/2/20/Puellamagis.png Here]] you go. Charlotte is the second one from the right.
** Charlotte's worm form devoured [[spoiler: Mami]] and attempted to devour [[spoiler: Homura]], indicating a gluttonus nature. Maybe Puella!Charlotte was a diabetic?
*** The diabetes theory seems plausible; she probably wished for her diabetes to be cured so that she could eat sweets, rather than just "wishing for cake."
*** Do diabetics also have to avoid cheese?
*** No, diabetics do not have to avoid cheese. If she was a cancer patient, then it is likely that she undergoes repeat bouts of chemotherapy, which (depending on the chemotherapeutic agent) may induce terrible nausea and vomiting. This doesn't matter much as the actual theory is listed below.
** According to production notes in the show's guidebook, there's now a rather different theory: [[spoiler: The human Charlotte's mother was dying, but Charlotte didn't use her wish to save her. The guidebook says that her mother wanted to eat cheesecake, but her daughter (whether out of either concern or petty greed) didn't share it with her. Using this, Charlotte's barrier is then modeled after Charlotte's own love of sweets and the hospital setting influenced by her mother's condition. The fact she didn't share cheesecake with her mother then affects how Charlotte can't make cheese as a witch. This also draws up an interesting parallel with Mami, who also didn't use her wish to save her dying parents.]]

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* '''Charlotte''': The dessert witch in Episode 3, and [[spoiler:an accomplished KnightOfCerebus]]. Her barrier is pretty much made entirely of food, especially cake, but according to her profile, her favorite food is cheese... which she can't make, since it's not a dessert. There's also a bit of a medical motif (pills, syringes, minions in wearing nurse hats), and her Grief Seed was found stuck in a wall by a hospital. Her profile says that she wants everything and never gives up; this latter comes across in her second form, which just produces a new copy of itself when injured. Her real body resembles a doll, and even appears to be sitting and having a tea party. "Charlotte" is also the name of a kind of dessert. [[spoiler:She almost certainly wished for cake[[hottip:*:Puts an even nastier spin on Mami's wish suggestion, don't it?]]; one theory is that she was an hospitalized IllGirl, and wanted dessert.
** According to production notes in
the food she couldn't have on a patient's diet, which would also explain show's guidebook, [[spoiler: the location of her Grief Seed. It's also speculated that, if she ''was'' an IllGirl prior to becoming a MagicalGirl and then a Witch, then her illness may have been [[LittlestCancerPatient cancer]]: human Charlotte's profile says that mother was dying, but Charlotte didn't use her TrademarkFavoriteFood is cheese, and patients subjected wish to chemotherapy aren't permitted dairy products.save her. Her mother wanted to eat cheesecake, but her daughter (whether out of either concern or petty greed) didn't share it with her. This also draws an interesting parallel to Mami, who also didn't use her wish to save her dying parents.]]
** 'Tis also speculated that Charlotte is [[spoiler:the green-haired girl from ''[[Manga/PuellaMagiOrikoMagica Oriko]]'']].
*** This speculation is {{Jossed}}, as Charlotte appears in witch-form in ''Oriko Magica''. The green-haired girl is Yuma.
*** [[spoiler:At
At the very end of the anime, a motif shot is shown with all of the magical girls seen in the anime, even those seen only as witches. One of the girls has hair similar to Charlotte's (first form); this is very likely to be her.]]
*** Link to said motif shot, please?
*** [[http://images.
[[spoiler:[[http://images.puella-magi.net/2/20/Puellamagis.png Here]] you go. Charlotte motif shot]] is shown with all of the magical girls seen in the anime, even those seen only as witches. One of the girls, the second one from the right.
**
right, has hair similar to that of Charlotte's worm form devoured [[spoiler: Mami]] and attempted to devour [[spoiler: Homura]], indicating a gluttonus nature. Maybe Puella!Charlotte was a diabetic?
*** The diabetes theory seems plausible; she probably wished for her diabetes to be cured so that she could eat sweets, rather than just "wishing for cake."
*** Do diabetics also have to avoid cheese?
*** No, diabetics do not have to avoid cheese. If she was a cancer patient, then it is likely that she undergoes repeat bouts of chemotherapy, which (depending on the chemotherapeutic agent) may induce terrible nausea and vomiting. This doesn't matter much as the actual theory is listed below.
** According to production notes in the show's guidebook, there's now a rather different theory: [[spoiler: The human Charlotte's mother was dying, but Charlotte didn't use her wish to save her. The guidebook says that her mother wanted to eat cheesecake, but her daughter (whether out of either concern or petty greed) didn't share it with her. Using this, Charlotte's barrier is then modeled after Charlotte's own love of sweets and the hospital setting influenced by her mother's condition. The fact she didn't share cheesecake with her mother then affects how Charlotte can't make cheese as a witch. This also draws up an interesting parallel with Mami, who also didn't use her wish to save her dying parents.
first form.]]
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It should be noted that the show is heavily influenced by Hegelian philosophy (in notable opposition to [[Anime/NeonGenesisEvangelion Evangelion]]'s Kierkegaardian), and that this is a version of the dialectic: the Incubators' seemingly [[TotalitarianUtilitarian "utilitarian"]] BlueAndOrangeMorality, and human emotion-based morality. (Note also: the Incubators are trying to prevent the entropic death of the universe that arises from an increase in chaos, whereas the "enlightened" magical girls, such as Homura, are fighting against their LawfulNeutral philosophy. [[OrderVersusChaos Ring a bell?]]) However, Madoka, in the end, decides that both the thesis ''(creating Puellae Magi are necessary to save the universe)'' and the antithesis ''(the Puella Magi system is unethical and cruel)'' are ''both'' equally valid. Thus, she discovers the truth in the ''synthesis'' of the two ideas, creating a much less cruel world where Puellae Magi, instead of being doomed to die as witches, AscendToAHigherPlaneOfExistence with Madoka.
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* '''Oktavia von Seckendorff''': Hooo, boy, this is going to be a long (and spoileriffic!) one. This is the witch who appeared in episodes 8 and 9. A slightly different version appeared in episode 10. She also [[spoiler:used to be Sayaka]], which gives us a ''lot'' of extra insight into the symbolism behind her barrier and appearance. She appears as a mermaid with three heads and the upper half of her body clad in plate armor and heraldic symbols, wearing a cape and carrying a giant sword. The cape and sword [[spoiler:are holdovers from her magical girl form, and the armor represents her KnightInShiningArmor tendencies]]. The mermaid tail, especially combined with her profile's description of her as "prone to falling in love," is probably in reference to Hans Christian Anderson's version of "The Little Mermaid." [[spoiler:Sayaka's story, suffering to please the man she loves who ultimately rejects her anyway, closely parallels the original fairy tale.]] Coupled with the heraldry, it also brings to mind the myth of [[http://images.puella-magi.net/5/5d/Melusine_information.jpg Melusine]]; it should also be noted that Goethe wrote a version of this story. Her barrier is full of music-related symbols, to the point where many of the runes are actually written in a variant font that resembles musical notes or instruments. The hallway that Kyouko first enters by is covered in concert posters[[hottip:*:Although most of them actually just say "Look at me"; I'll get to that in a minute]], while the room at the center of the maze resembles a concert hall, packed to the roof and housing a ghost orchestra. [[spoiler:This is, naturally, connected to Kyousuke and her wish for him to be able to play again. At one point, a figure that appears to be him can be seen standing in the center of the concert hall stage, holding a violin.]] Like most of the witches, she has a MadnessMantra written in runes throughout her barrier: "Look at me!" [[spoiler:This comes from her frustration at Kyousuke ignoring her despite all her efforts to comfort and help him. She wants him to notice her, but he didn't even bother to tell her when he got out of the hospital.]] Her name also bears some analysis. "Oktavia" is derived from the Latin word for "eight," and is probably intended as another musical connection (an octave is an interval of eight notes). Her last name is likely a reference to the poet Karl Siegmund von Seckendorff, who wrote a novel titled ''The Wheel of Fate'' (which explains Oktavia's wheel attack) and set part of ''Faust'' to music. (Alternately, the wheels may be in reference to the [[TarotMotifs Wheel of Fortune tarot card]]; it represents possibilities, opportunities, and sudden changes, which would certainly be appropriate. Or it could just be a reference to [[spoiler: the train aboard which Sayaka crossed her MoralEventHorizon; it's implied that she '''murdered''' a pair of bartenders whom she heard spouting misogynistic sentiments]].)

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* '''Oktavia von Seckendorff''': Hooo, boy, this is going to be a long (and spoileriffic!) one. This is the witch who appeared in episodes 8 and 9. A slightly different version appeared in episode 10. She also [[spoiler:used to be Sayaka]], which gives us a ''lot'' of extra insight into the symbolism behind her barrier and appearance. She appears as a mermaid with three heads and the upper half of her body clad in plate armor and heraldic symbols, wearing a cape and carrying a giant sword. The cape and sword [[spoiler:are holdovers from her magical girl form, and the armor represents her KnightInShiningArmor tendencies]]. The mermaid tail, especially combined with her profile's description of her as "prone to falling in love," is probably in reference to Hans Christian Anderson's version of "The Little Mermaid." [[spoiler:Sayaka's story, suffering to please the man she loves who ultimately rejects her anyway, closely parallels the original fairy tale.]] Coupled with the heraldry, it also brings to mind the myth of [[http://images.puella-magi.net/5/5d/Melusine_information.jpg Melusine]]; it should also be noted that Goethe wrote a version of this story. Her barrier is full of music-related symbols, to the point where many of the runes are actually written in a variant font that resembles musical notes or instruments. The hallway that Kyouko first enters by is covered in concert posters[[hottip:*:Although most of them actually just say "Look at me"; I'll get to that in a minute]], while the room at the center of the maze resembles a concert hall, packed to the roof and housing a ghost orchestra. [[spoiler:This is, naturally, connected to Kyousuke and her wish for him to be able to play again. At one point, a figure that appears to be him can be seen standing in the center of the concert hall stage, holding a violin.]] Like most of the witches, she has a MadnessMantra written in runes throughout her barrier: "Look at me!" [[spoiler:This comes from her frustration at Kyousuke ignoring her despite all her efforts to comfort and help him. She wants him to notice her, but he didn't even bother to tell her when he got out of the hospital.]] Her name also bears some analysis. "Oktavia" is derived from the Latin word for "eight," and is probably intended as another musical connection (an octave is an interval of eight notes). Her last name is likely a reference to the poet Karl Siegmund von Seckendorff, who wrote a novel titled ''The Wheel of Fate'' (which explains Oktavia's wheel attack) and set part of ''Faust'' ''Theatre/{{Faust}}'' to music. (Alternately, the wheels may be in reference to the [[TarotMotifs Wheel of Fortune tarot card]]; it represents possibilities, opportunities, and sudden changes, which would certainly be appropriate. Or it could just be a reference to [[spoiler: the train aboard which Sayaka crossed her MoralEventHorizon; it's implied that she '''murdered''' a pair of bartenders whom she heard spouting misogynistic sentiments]].)



* '''Walpurgisnacht''': The most powerful witch until Kriemhild Gretchen, Walpurgisnacht is a looming threat throughout the entire series. In fact, she's so powerful that she doesn't need a barrier-- she just floats straight into town and starts letting her familiars loose and throwing buildings around. She's also nearly indestructible, easily shrugging it off when Homura blasts her with [[WallOfWeapons enough weaponry to outfit a small army]]. Given her plot-critical nature, all sorts of [[WildMassGuessing crazy theories]] cropped up about Walpurgis, particularly theories that she was [[spoiler:the witch form of a main character, usually either Sayaka (due to some details of clothing), Madoka (due to her immense power), or Homura (due to the gears)]]. However, these particular theories were all {{Jossed}} eventually, leaving us free to speculate wildly about Walpurgis herself. There are a few major things to keep in mind here. One is her name-- Walpurgisnacht, or Walpurgis Night, is a German festival in the spring which is also believed to be a night on which witches gather. It also features in ''Faust'', when Mephisto takes Faust there to try to distract him from thinking about his lover Gretchen; when it doesn't work, Mephisto instead takes him to where a play is about to be shown. The second half of this is notable: Walpurgisnacht is, according to [[AllThereInTheManual her card]], the witch of stage settings. Another interesting detail is that some of her minions resemble the silhouettes of magical girls. All of this combined has led many to believe that [[spoiler:rather than being the expression of ''one'' girl's despair, she's an amalgamation of many-- sort of a composite witch, which would also explain her incredible power]]. Another theory relies on the carnival theme that other of her minions seem to have, and theorizes that she is [[spoiler:the green-haired girl shown in the montage of Madoka saving all the witches in the finale, based on the fact that maypoles and what seems to be part of a fair can be seen behind where she was dying, and the location may have influenced her witch form]]. And, last but not least, there's the simplest one: [[spoiler: She started out as an ordinary magical girl that wished to join a theatre troupe, but in a time when theater was a male-only profession (thus her nature is inability). Since her fall into witchdom, she has been perpetually gathering other Witches as "actresses" for her "productions".]]. It is notable that she is the witch of stage machines, which in Greek theater was the "machina" part of DeusExMachina. This is appropriate as [[spoiler: her appearance instigated Madoka's ascent to godhood.]] And yet another theory would be that [[spoiler: Walpurgis was a lonely girl who was a victim of bullying and treated like a circus freak (hence the circus theme). She was helpless against it (hence the helplessness) and possibly wished to have friends (hence the mahou shoujo-like spectres; maybe said wish made her powers only fully workable when other mahou shoujo were near/being copied from other mahou shoujo, driving further the point of helplessness). She probably was curious and kept asking Kyubey about how the system worked (alluding to "The witch's mysteries have been handed down through the course of history" part; it could be referring to Walpurgis herself, or to how the system worked). Through years of loneliness, possibly coupled with some nerdiness, she treated life like a theater machine, where she just wanted to be the main character and see a happy ending. Her despair was that she ended up lonely again, because all of her friends became witches, but she couldn't do anything to help them. She became a powerful witch because she carried the burden of all magical girls who became her friends through the course of her history. There would be a chance of her being a LargeHam, given the witch's attitude (loud laughter and spinning around). The fact the witch tries to destroy the entire world as a ''"grand finale"'' might definitely confirm her hammish nature.]]

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* '''Walpurgisnacht''': The most powerful witch until Kriemhild Gretchen, Walpurgisnacht is a looming threat throughout the entire series. In fact, she's so powerful that she doesn't need a barrier-- she just floats straight into town and starts letting her familiars loose and throwing buildings around. She's also nearly indestructible, easily shrugging it off when Homura blasts her with [[WallOfWeapons enough weaponry to outfit a small army]]. Given her plot-critical nature, all sorts of [[WildMassGuessing crazy theories]] cropped up about Walpurgis, particularly theories that she was [[spoiler:the witch form of a main character, usually either Sayaka (due to some details of clothing), Madoka (due to her immense power), or Homura (due to the gears)]]. However, these particular theories were all {{Jossed}} eventually, leaving us free to speculate wildly about Walpurgis herself. There are a few major things to keep in mind here. One is her name-- Walpurgisnacht, or Walpurgis Night, is a German festival in the spring which is also believed to be a night on which witches gather. It also features in ''Faust'', ''Theatre/FaustI'', when Mephisto takes Faust there to try to distract him from thinking about his lover Gretchen; when it doesn't work, Mephisto instead takes him to where a play is about to be shown. The second half of this is notable: Walpurgisnacht is, according to [[AllThereInTheManual her card]], the witch of stage settings. Another interesting detail is that some of her minions resemble the silhouettes of magical girls. All of this combined has led many to believe that [[spoiler:rather than being the expression of ''one'' girl's despair, she's an amalgamation of many-- sort of a composite witch, which would also explain her incredible power]]. Another theory relies on the carnival theme that other of her minions seem to have, and theorizes that she is [[spoiler:the green-haired girl shown in the montage of Madoka saving all the witches in the finale, based on the fact that maypoles and what seems to be part of a fair can be seen behind where she was dying, and the location may have influenced her witch form]]. And, last but not least, there's the simplest one: [[spoiler: She started out as an ordinary magical girl that wished to join a theatre troupe, but in a time when theater was a male-only profession (thus her nature is inability). Since her fall into witchdom, she has been perpetually gathering other Witches as "actresses" for her "productions".]]. It is notable that she is the witch of stage machines, which in Greek theater was the "machina" part of DeusExMachina. This is appropriate as [[spoiler: her appearance instigated Madoka's ascent to godhood.]] And yet another theory would be that [[spoiler: Walpurgis was a lonely girl who was a victim of bullying and treated like a circus freak (hence the circus theme). She was helpless against it (hence the helplessness) and possibly wished to have friends (hence the mahou shoujo-like spectres; maybe said wish made her powers only fully workable when other mahou shoujo were near/being copied from other mahou shoujo, driving further the point of helplessness). She probably was curious and kept asking Kyubey about how the system worked (alluding to "The witch's mysteries have been handed down through the course of history" part; it could be referring to Walpurgis herself, or to how the system worked). Through years of loneliness, possibly coupled with some nerdiness, she treated life like a theater machine, where she just wanted to be the main character and see a happy ending. Her despair was that she ended up lonely again, because all of her friends became witches, but she couldn't do anything to help them. She became a powerful witch because she carried the burden of all magical girls who became her friends through the course of her history. There would be a chance of her being a LargeHam, given the witch's attitude (loud laughter and spinning around). The fact the witch tries to destroy the entire world as a ''"grand finale"'' might definitely confirm her hammish nature.]]



There is a special area that is within Episode 1 that takes a direct excerpt from Goethe's Faust. [[http://wiki.puella-magi.net/File:Ep1_Rune_Das_Hexeneinmaleins.jpg This picture]] from the wiki has been translated and allows for a complete understanding of the anime itself and possibly why their positions were chosen. This is also a case of ShownTheirWork, [[{{Faust}} since this direct from the original material]]. Here is the translated version (numbered lines as a reference).

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There is a special area that is within Episode 1 that takes a direct excerpt from Goethe's Faust.''Theatre/{{Faust}}''. [[http://wiki.puella-magi.net/File:Ep1_Rune_Das_Hexeneinmaleins.jpg This picture]] from the wiki has been translated and allows for a complete understanding of the anime itself and possibly why their positions were chosen. This is also a case of ShownTheirWork, [[{{Faust}} since this direct comes directly from the original material]].material. Here is the translated version (numbered lines as a reference).



* ''Eighth line:'' Episode 7. The first thing Sayaka thinks is how Kyubey tricked him. It is possible she was extremely GenreSavvy to know what went wrong, but fell on the wrong ideals due to Mami. On the other hand is her RelationshipValues, [[HeroicBSOD which falters by the end of the episode]]. The exact same thing, word for word, happened to Kyoko's father. This makes Sayaka's role in the anime [[FridgeBrilliance even more interesting]], because she is the ideal character for {{Faust}}.

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* ''Eighth line:'' Episode 7. The first thing Sayaka thinks is how Kyubey tricked him. It is possible she was extremely GenreSavvy to know what went wrong, but fell on the wrong ideals due to Mami. On the other hand is her RelationshipValues, [[HeroicBSOD which falters by the end of the episode]]. The exact same thing, word for word, happened to Kyoko's father. This makes Sayaka's role in the anime [[FridgeBrilliance even more interesting]], because she is the ideal character for {{Faust}}.Faust.
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** 'Tis also speculated that Charlotte is [[spoiler:the green-haired girl from ''[[PuellaMagiOrikoMagica Oriko]]'']].
*** This speculation is {{Jossed}}, as Charlotte appears in witch-form in OrikoMagica. The green-haired girl is Yuma.

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** 'Tis also speculated that Charlotte is [[spoiler:the green-haired girl from ''[[PuellaMagiOrikoMagica ''[[Manga/PuellaMagiOrikoMagica Oriko]]'']].
*** This speculation is {{Jossed}}, as Charlotte appears in witch-form in OrikoMagica.''Oriko Magica''. The green-haired girl is Yuma.



** It is also speculated that [[spoiler:since, in ''[[PuellaMagiOrikoMagica Oriko]]'', Oriko sees Walpurgis in a vision, she may actually ''be'' Walpurgis]].

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** It is also speculated that [[spoiler:since, in ''[[PuellaMagiOrikoMagica ''[[Manga/PuellaMagiOrikoMagica Oriko]]'', Oriko sees Walpurgis in a vision, she may actually ''be'' Walpurgis]].



** [[spoiler: Did you miss '''the whole ending'''? ''PuellaMagiMadokaMagica'''s plot is all about PowerOfLove and PowerOfFriendship. Madoka's complete selflessness and Homura's incredible devotion were the keys to breaking the ViciousCycle. But this overwhelming importance of PowerOfLove and PowerOfFriendship is exactly the reason why the series judge those who use love and friendship to mask their selfish desires for gratitude and approval so harshly. Mami dies because she placed having friends over the safety of said friends and because [[MyGreatestFailure she didn't saved her parents with her wish]]{ Sayaka tries to cast herself as a LoveMartyr, but fails horribly because she actually isn't. Homura had to go through hell to prove the purity of her intent to protect Madoka and is saved only when she stops caring how Madoka views her in the process.]]

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** [[spoiler: Did you miss '''the whole ending'''? ''PuellaMagiMadokaMagica'''s ''Anime/PuellaMagiMadokaMagica'''s plot is all about PowerOfLove and PowerOfFriendship. Madoka's complete selflessness and Homura's incredible devotion were the keys to breaking the ViciousCycle. But this overwhelming importance of PowerOfLove and PowerOfFriendship is exactly the reason why the series judge those who use love and friendship to mask their selfish desires for gratitude and approval so harshly. Mami dies because she placed having friends over the safety of said friends and because [[MyGreatestFailure she didn't saved her parents with her wish]]{ Sayaka tries to cast herself as a LoveMartyr, but fails horribly because she actually isn't. Homura had to go through hell to prove the purity of her intent to protect Madoka and is saved only when she stops caring how Madoka views her in the process.]]



Analysis (when I say "reference," I mean how the above is a cross-comparison to PuellaMagiMadokaMagica):

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Analysis (when I say "reference," I mean how the above is a cross-comparison to PuellaMagiMadokaMagica):''Anime/PuellaMagiMadokaMagica''):
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Sayaka: She becomes a Mahou Shoujo for the one she loves. Then she was betrayed and becomes a Witch. As in losing your virginity for your loved one, then he betrays you and you go full slut due to emotional damage. She is a good friend of Madoka (the girl who is afraid of losing virginity likes the idea of losing it to the person she loves).

Kyoko: Her family being religious made her hungry, so she becomes a Mahou Shoujo to satisfy her hunger. As in sexual hunger. And then her religious dad found out she was a Mahou Shoujo and commited suicide with her family and she had to live alone (as in the dad kicked out the daughter from home for being a slut).

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Sayaka: She becomes a Mahou Shoujo for the one she loves. Then she was betrayed and becomes a Witch. As in {{netorare}} stories about how losing your virginity for your loved one, then he betrays you and you go full slut into despair/insanity/loss of morals due to emotional damage. She is a good friend of Madoka (the girl who is afraid of losing virginity likes the idea of losing it to the person she loves).

Kyoko: Her family being religious made her hungry, so she becomes a Mahou Shoujo to satisfy her hunger. As in sexual hunger.hunger, or it's like in Real Life Third World countries where poor women turn to human trafficking so that she can earn money for her and her family's food. And then her religious dad found out she was a Mahou Shoujo and commited suicide with her family and she had to live alone (as in the dad kicked out the daughter from home for being a slut).
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No fiction needed.


In one scene, Madoka comments that it would be better if the Incubators had never come to Earth. Kyubey's response: "Your people would still be living naked in caves." The implication being that a majority of human civilization is due to the advancements that came from wishes, and curses, that Magical Girls have made since before history. Rather, we see the metaphor in civilization itself. Like Wishes, every discovery that mankind has made can (and has been) used for both good and ill. Fire brings warmth, energy, and destruction. ScienceFiction portrays a hope in acquiring knowledge, and LovecraftianFiction [[RomanticismVersusEnlightenment warns how it can drive us to despair (Witchdom) instead]]. Here we see Kyubey claiming that his race was the Serpent[=/=]Lilith that gave mankind the ForbiddenFruit of the Tree of Knowledge, and how science/technology is a real-world form of "forbidden magic".

to:

In one scene, Madoka comments that it would be better if the Incubators had never come to Earth. Kyubey's response: "Your people would still be living naked in caves." The implication being that a majority of human civilization is due to the advancements that came from wishes, and curses, that Magical Girls have made since before history. Rather, we see the metaphor in civilization itself. Like Wishes, every discovery that mankind has made can (and has been) used for both good and ill. Fire brings warmth, energy, and destruction. ScienceFiction portrays a hope in acquiring knowledge, and LovecraftianFiction [[RomanticismVersusEnlightenment warns how it can drive us to despair (Witchdom) instead]]. Here we see Kyubey claiming that his race was the Serpent[=/=]Lilith Serpent that gave mankind the ForbiddenFruit of the Tree of Knowledge, and how science/technology civilization/science is a real-world form the knowledge of "forbidden magic".
good and evil.
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*** No, diabetics do not have to avoid cheese. If she was a cancer patient, then it is likely that she undergoes repeat bouts of chemotherapy, which (depending on the chemotherapeutic agent) may induce terrible nausea and vomiting. This doesn't matter much as the actual theory is listed below.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


In one scene, Madoka comments that it would be better if the Incubators had never come to Earth. Kyubey's response: "Your people would still be living naked in caves." The implication being that a majority of human civilization is due to the advancements that came from wishes, and curses, that Magical Girls have made since before history. Rather, we see the metaphor in civilization itself. Like Wishes, every discovery that mankind has made can (and has been) used for both good and ill. Fire brings warmth, energy, and destruction. ScienceFiction portrays a hope in acquiring knowledge, and LovecraftianFiction [[RomanticismVersusEnlightenment warns how it can drive us to despair (Witchdom) instead]]. Here we see Kyubey claiming that his race was the Serpent[=/=]Lilith that gave mankind the ForbiddenFruit of the Tree of Knowledge.

to:

In one scene, Madoka comments that it would be better if the Incubators had never come to Earth. Kyubey's response: "Your people would still be living naked in caves." The implication being that a majority of human civilization is due to the advancements that came from wishes, and curses, that Magical Girls have made since before history. Rather, we see the metaphor in civilization itself. Like Wishes, every discovery that mankind has made can (and has been) used for both good and ill. Fire brings warmth, energy, and destruction. ScienceFiction portrays a hope in acquiring knowledge, and LovecraftianFiction [[RomanticismVersusEnlightenment warns how it can drive us to despair (Witchdom) instead]]. Here we see Kyubey claiming that his race was the Serpent[=/=]Lilith that gave mankind the ForbiddenFruit of the Tree of Knowledge.
Knowledge, and how science/technology is a real-world form of "forbidden magic".
Willbyr MOD

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Nightmare Fuel cleanup; see the thread for details











* MonsterOfTheWeek: The MagicalGirlWarrior genre has a long tradition of monsters that a) resemble everyday things twisted into [[ThisIsYourPremiseOnDrugs something you'd see on]] [[MushroomSamba a bad LSD trip]] and/or b) are PoweredByAForsakenChild in some way or another. ''HeartcatchPrettyCure'', for example, had [[MonsterOfTheWeek Monsters Of The Week]] made by ripping out human souls and inserting them into objects, with the victim's consciousness eternally reliving the state of misery and despair that made them vulnerable in the first place. This show demonstrates how [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel horrifying]] [[EldritchAbomination on all levels]] opponents like this would actually be if the plot did not mandate that they be ineffectual {{Mook}}s.

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* MonsterOfTheWeek: The MagicalGirlWarrior genre has a long tradition of monsters that a) resemble everyday things twisted into [[ThisIsYourPremiseOnDrugs something you'd see on]] [[MushroomSamba a bad LSD trip]] and/or b) are PoweredByAForsakenChild in some way or another. ''HeartcatchPrettyCure'', for example, had [[MonsterOfTheWeek Monsters Of The Week]] made by ripping out human souls and inserting them into objects, with the victim's consciousness eternally reliving the state of misery and despair that made them vulnerable in the first place. This show demonstrates how [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel horrifying]] horrifying [[EldritchAbomination on all levels]] opponents like this would actually be if the plot did not mandate that they be ineffectual {{Mook}}s.


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* There are a lot of similarities in the relationship between Faust/Homura and Gretchen/Madoka. Faust/Homura brings Gretchen/Madoka in trouble then desperately and hopelessly tries to save her. In the end it is this effort mixed with Gretchens/Madokas purity that saves Faust/Homura. In both stories the happy end is achieved trough "cheating." Both last scenes from each part of Goethe's Faust have equivalents in Madoka Magica: The prison scene from the first part several times in the tenth episode after the walpurgisnacht; the ascension scene from the second part in the the last episode.
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You lose your virginity (become a Mahou Shoujo) due to desire (making a wish), then eventually you maybe are consumed by the socioemotional problems of such and thus turn into a pervert (Witch).

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You lose your virginity (become a Mahou Shoujo) due to desire (making a wish), then eventually you maybe are consumed by the socioemotional problems of such (Hope to Despair) and thus turn into a pervert (Witch).

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QB is the desire. It makes you a Mahou Shoujo, and you can't kill it.
Mahou Shoujos turn into Witches. Witches represent perversion.

You lose your virginity (become a Mahou Shoujo) due to desire (QB), then eventually you maybe turn into a pervert (Witch).

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QB is Wishes, represented by QB, are the desire. It makes you a Mahou Shoujo, and you can't kill it.
Mahou Shoujos turn into Witches. Witches represent perversion.

perversion[=/=]whoredom.

You lose your virginity (become a Mahou Shoujo) due to desire (QB), (making a wish), then eventually you maybe are consumed by the socioemotional problems of such and thus turn into a pervert (Witch).
(Witch).






Madoka. She is the girl afraid of losing her virginity.
She doesn't feel prepared and is insecure, meanwhile she sees all her friends losing it. But once she decides to be a Mahou Shoujo, the world around her becomes perfect, and it feels like nothing bad ever happened, the liberation of that weight makes her feel like God.

Sayaka. She becomes a Mahou Shoujo for the one she loves. Then she is NTR'd and becomes a Witch. As in losing your virginity for your loved one, then he betrays you and you go full slut due to emotional damage. She is a good friend of Madoka (the girl who is afraid of losing virginity likes the idea of losing it to the person she loves).

Kyoko. Her family being religious made her hungry, so she becomes a Mahou Shoujo to satisfy her hunger. As in sexual hunger. And then her religious dad found out she was a Mahou Shoujo and commited suicide with her family and she had to live alone (as in the dad kicked out the daughter from home for being a slut).

Homura. Represents the girl who was raped. She desires to change the past, but she can't no matter how much she tries, and has a cold attitude but in the inside she is fragile.

Madoka is a projection of herself, she tries to save the virgin girl she was.

Mami. She is the experienced girl, the one the other girls admire, especially Madoka (the girl afraid of sex), she eventually loses her head to perversion.

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Madoka. Madoka: She is the girl afraid of losing her virginity.
virginity. She sublimate her desires through trying to do good, which only makes her feel even more depressed. She doesn't feel prepared and is insecure, meanwhile she sees all her friends losing it. But once she becomes honest about her true self and decides to be a Mahou Shoujo, the world around her becomes perfect, and it feels like nothing bad ever happened, the liberation of that weight makes her feel like God.

Sayaka. Sayaka: She becomes a Mahou Shoujo for the one she loves. Then she is NTR'd was betrayed and becomes a Witch. As in losing your virginity for your loved one, then he betrays you and you go full slut due to emotional damage. She is a good friend of Madoka (the girl who is afraid of losing virginity likes the idea of losing it to the person she loves).

Kyoko. Kyoko: Her family being religious made her hungry, so she becomes a Mahou Shoujo to satisfy her hunger. As in sexual hunger. And then her religious dad found out she was a Mahou Shoujo and commited suicide with her family and she had to live alone (as in the dad kicked out the daughter from home for being a slut).

Homura. Homura: Represents [[BreakTheCutie the girl who was raped. raped]]. She desires to change the past, but she can't no matter how much she tries, and has a cold cold, pessimistic attitude but to hide how in the inside she is fragile.

fragile. Both Madoka is a projection and the über-witch Walpurgis Night are projections of herself, she tries to save the virgin girl she was.

Mami.
was from such a pinnacle of perversion, while Walpurgis Night's nature itself is helplessness, as in helplessness from how [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil rape is the original]] FateWorseThanDeath.

Mami:
She is the experienced girl, the one the other girls admire, especially Madoka (the girl afraid of sex), she eventually loses her head to perversion.
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Now, Madoka is being driven further into this conflict between her own conventional morality (e.g., things like "love thy neighbour as thyself") and the Incubators' utilitarianism. Everyone around her is suffering, but the problem is that this vicious cycle of utilitarianism also ''makes sense'', and thus she cannot argue against the Incubators' position. But if she cannot argue against, why not compromise? At the end of the series, she gets an opportunity to change the PoweredByAForsakenChild-based universe and create a new one which also fits in with her morality that is based on rule of compassion.

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Now, Madoka is being driven further into this conflict between her own conventional morality (e.g., things like "love thy neighbour as thyself") and the Incubators' utilitarianism. Everyone around her is suffering, but the problem is that this vicious cycle of utilitarianism also ''makes sense'', and thus she cannot argue against the Incubators' position. But if she cannot argue against, why not compromise? At the end of the series, she gets an opportunity to change the PoweredByAForsakenChild-based universe and create a new one which also fits in with her morality that is based on rule of compassion.
compassion. Thus Madoka adopts Rule Utilitarianism: she can still preserve conventional rules that allow a comfortable life for everyone in this universe (like for example the necessity for Incubators and Magical Girls to fight entropy and ensure the prosperity of human civilization), while dumping those conventional rules that are unnecessary and harmful (like for example having magical girls fall to despair and become Witches).
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In one scene, Madoka comments that it would be better if the Incubators had never come to Earth. Kyubey's response: "Your people would still be living naked in caves." The implication being that a majority of human civilization is due to the advancements that came from wishes that Magical Girls have made since before history. Rather, we see the metaphor in civilization itself. Like Wishes, every discovery that mankind has made can (and has been) used for both good and ill. Fire brings warmth, and destruction. Here we see Kyubey claiming that his race was the Serpent that gave mankind the Fruit of the Tree of Good and Evil.

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In one scene, Madoka comments that it would be better if the Incubators had never come to Earth. Kyubey's response: "Your people would still be living naked in caves." The implication being that a majority of human civilization is due to the advancements that came from wishes wishes, and curses, that Magical Girls have made since before history. Rather, we see the metaphor in civilization itself. Like Wishes, every discovery that mankind has made can (and has been) used for both good and ill. Fire brings warmth, energy, and destruction. ScienceFiction portrays a hope in acquiring knowledge, and LovecraftianFiction [[RomanticismVersusEnlightenment warns how it can drive us to despair (Witchdom) instead]]. Here we see Kyubey claiming that his race was the Serpent Serpent[=/=]Lilith that gave mankind the Fruit ForbiddenFruit of the Tree of Good and Evil.Knowledge.
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** {{Word of God}} has confirmed that Walpurgisnacht is a fusion of multiple witches (although she was originally a single witch). She's like a tornado that can come across other witches and absorb them, according to Urobochi. Her character card which states that her nature is helplessness and that she symbolizes the fool who continuously spins in circles is a borderline {{tearjerker}} when you remember how the Puella Magi system works.

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** {{Word of God}} has confirmed that Walpurgisnacht is a fusion of multiple witches (although she was originally a single witch). She's like a tornado that can come across other witches and absorb them, according to Urobochi. Her character card which states that her nature is helplessness and that she symbolizes the fool who continuously spins in circles is a borderline {{tearjerker}} when you remember how the Puella Magi system works.
works and what [[spoiler:Homura's]] situation is about.



Now, Madoka is being driven further into this conflict between her own conventional morality (e.g., things like "love thy neighbour as thyself") and the Incubators' utilitarianism. Everyone around her is suffering, but the problem is that this vicious cycle of utilitarianism also ''makes sense'', and thus she cannot argue against the Incubators' position. But if she cannot argue against, why not compromise? But at the end of the series, she gets an opportunity to change the PoweredByAForsakenChild-based universe and create a new one which also fits in with her morality that is based on rule of compassion.

!Incubators and the Garden of Eden.

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Now, Madoka is being driven further into this conflict between her own conventional morality (e.g., things like "love thy neighbour as thyself") and the Incubators' utilitarianism. Everyone around her is suffering, but the problem is that this vicious cycle of utilitarianism also ''makes sense'', and thus she cannot argue against the Incubators' position. But if she cannot argue against, why not compromise? But at At the end of the series, she gets an opportunity to change the PoweredByAForsakenChild-based universe and create a new one which also fits in with her morality that is based on rule of compassion.

!Incubators !Incubators, their role as AncientAstronauts, and the Garden of Eden.
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!Incubators and the Garden of Eden.
In one scene, Madoka comments that it would be better if the Incubators had never come to Earth. Kyubey's response: "Your people would still be living naked in caves." The implication being that a majority of human civilization is due to the advancements that came from wishes that Magical Girls have made since before history. Rather, we see the metaphor in civilization itself. Like Wishes, every discovery that mankind has made can (and has been) used for both good and ill. Fire brings warmth, and destruction. Here we see Kyubey claiming that his race was the Serpent that gave mankind the Fruit of the Tree of Good and Evil.
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*** The episode 10 version is, as mentioned, a little different; some of her minions, instead of all being members of the orchestra, are dancers that look a lot like [[spoiler:Hitomi.]] Presumably this is either [[spoiler:a manifestation of jealousy (basically, a wish to control her rival) or due to differences in the timeline that effected their relationship.]]

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*** The episode 10 version is, as mentioned, a little different; some of her minions, instead of all being members of the orchestra, are dancers that look a lot like [[spoiler:Hitomi.]] Presumably this is either [[spoiler:a manifestation of jealousy (basically, a wish to control her rival) or due to differences in the timeline that effected affected their relationship.]]

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