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Why do a lot of people seem to think the Japanese sword is superior? For the Japanese it's understandable that they'd want to brag about their swords being the best, but much more remarkable is the fact that people from all over the world seem to believe them. There are many possible explanations for this state of affairs, and the following are just a few suggestions.\\

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Why do a lot of people seem to think the Japanese sword is superior? For the Japanese it's understandable that they'd want to brag about their swords being the best, but much more remarkable is the fact that people from all over the world seem to believe ''believe'' them. There are many possible explanations for this state of affairs, and the following are just a few suggestions.\\

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One reason is OlderIsBetter: the notion that the craftsmen of olden times had secret knowledge that has been lost to modern craftsmen. Since Japan has a relatively continuous tradition of swordsmithing which goes back to the middle ages and lives on today, it can be said that they still make swords very similar to the old ones. Japan's status as an island nation and the "closed country" policy of the Edo period also meant that their sword-making tradition was less "diluted" by influence from their neighbors, thus encouraging gradual evolution rather than disruptive revolution and preserving its distinct national character. The various governments of Japan since feudal times have also helped to foster the craft of sword making and preserve its history, culminating in post-war Japan's laws regulating the manufacture, import, and export of swords while protecting the best antique swords as national treasures and important cultural properties. Admittedly, Japan has sometimes had periods of war and disruption which interrupted or destroyed certain sword traditions, such as during the Meiji Restoration when the samurai class was abolished and the wearing of swords outlawed, thus putting many of the old-fashioned swordsmiths out of work. Still, their sword culture is more completely preserved than other Asian cultures that went through more prolonged cultural and technological upheaval, and is in a totally different league from Western Europe's Medieval and Renaissance traditions, which had to be resurrected after completely dying out. Although the first revivals of old European weapon-making and martial arts began in the 19th century, it was not until the rise of the internet in the 1990s and 2000s--accompanied by the publication of more translations of primary sources--that revived European sword arts really began to take off.\\

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One reason is OlderIsBetter: To begin with, Japanese culture both historically and today treats the notion that sword as having special spiritual significance. From a Western standpoint, a sword is often seen as a weapon or a tool. Now what does this mean? Most Westerners who think about the craftsmen of olden times had secret knowledge that has been lost to modern craftsmen. Since Japan has a relatively continuous tradition of swordsmithing which goes back to the middle ages katana, judge it more for it's functionality; how sharp it is, how well it can cut, and lives on today, how nimble it can be said used with two hands. From a Japanese viewpoint however, the katana is valued more than just it's role as a weapon. In Shintoism, the national religion of Japan, the sword is often portrayed as a divine sacred object. This is most evident in the founding myth of Japan, in which the two gods Izanami and Izanagi created the Japanese archipelago by dipping a sacred coral blade into the ocean before stirring it. So it goes to show that they still make swords very similar to the old ones. Japan's status katana in Japanese culture is valued more for it's divinity than as an island nation and the "closed country" policy of the Edo period a weapon. Japanese swordsmiths, who also meant happen to be Shinto priests, are expected to religiously devote themselves in the forging the sword. They have to perform prayers and rituals before and after the forging to create an object that their is sacred in value. Throughout the entirety of Japanese history, sword-making tradition was less "diluted" by influence from their neighbors, thus encouraging gradual evolution rather than disruptive revolution recognized as a form of high art. Because the making, use, and preserving its distinct national character. The various governments preservation of Japan since feudal times have also helped traditional Japanese swords became part of Japanese identity, there was a very strong reason to foster the craft of sword making and preserve its history, culminating in post-war Japan's laws regulating the manufacture, import, and export it instead of swords while protecting the best antique swords as national treasures and important cultural properties. Admittedly, Japan has sometimes had periods of war and disruption which interrupted or destroyed certain sword traditions, such as during the Meiji Restoration when the samurai class was abolished and the wearing of swords outlawed, thus putting many of the old-fashioned swordsmiths out of work. Still, their sword culture is more completely preserved than other Asian cultures that went through more prolonged cultural and technological upheaval, and is in a totally different league from Western Europe's Medieval and Renaissance traditions, which had simply discarding it to be resurrected after completely dying out. Although the first revivals of old European weapon-making and martial arts began in the 19th century, it was not until the rise of the internet in the 1990s and 2000s--accompanied by the publication of more translations of primary sources--that revived European sword arts really began to take off.make way for modernity.\\



Compared to Japan's traditional culture, which places more emphasis on tradition and basing present practices on the knowledge of one's ancestors, Western Europe has long been focused on the idea of progress and each generation being better than the last. The writers of the Renaissance and the Enlightenment created the idea of the [[TheDungAges primitive and superstitious Middle Ages]] because they thought they were so much better in comparison, and while they idolized the greatness of classical Greece and Rome, they nevertheless felt like they could build upon and surpass the achievements of the ancients. Despite the fact that there were always proponents of the GoodOldWays who resisted newfangled sword designs and fencing styles, each time they were ultimately drowned out by the embracers of change and improvement. While many swords associated with saints, nobles, and the like were preserved in churches or princely collections, they were not considered as templates for future generations of swordsmiths, and tended to be valued more for their history than for the intrinsic qualities of their blades. Contrast this with Japan, in which ''Kotō'' (古刀, "old swords") from around 900–1596 were considered the best and imitated by later swordsmiths, while the succeeding Shintō (新刀, "new swords") made from 1596–1780 were considered to be of lesser quality in comparison.\\

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Compared to Japan's traditional culture, which places more emphasis on tradition The Europeans did at one time in the middle ages elevate the cross-hilted knightly sword as a symbol of Christian chivalry, and basing present practices on the knowledge of one's ancestors, Western Europe has long been focused on the idea of progress and each generation being better than the last. The writers of later in the Renaissance treated the various side-swords and rapiers as symbols of manly honor, but fundamentally neither the Christian religion nor the nationalist myths of various countries gave the sword such singular importance that it could not be replaced with other symbols in accordance with the changing times. Furthermore, the swordsmith was rarely recognized as an artistic genius in the same way that painters and sculptors were from the Renaissance onwards, and the Enlightenment created creep towards capitalism and industrialization tended to reduce the idea of sword to the [[TheDungAges primitive status of a commodity, either a piece of jewelry to be worn by aristocrats or a purely functional weapon to meet military needs. As the progressive technological improvement of firearms and superstitious Middle Ages]] artillery made the sword less relevant as a practical weapon, there just wasn't enough of a cultural movement to prevent the gradual die-out of European sword culture. By the 19th century the Europeans and the upstart United States didn't really ''need'' their swords to represent their artistic and cultural merit; they found more than enough reasons--whether military, technological, racial, or religious--to feel superior to the Japanese. To the extent that they grew to respect Japan more than other Asian countries, it was because the Japanese were the quickest to successfully imitate the European model of modernization. In that regard the sword contest was a low-stakes issue that they could afford to concede to the Japanese, because they thought they were so much better far ahead in comparison, and while they idolized the greatness of classical Greece and Rome, they nevertheless felt like they could build upon and surpass the achievements of the ancients. Despite the fact that there were always proponents of the GoodOldWays who resisted newfangled sword designs and fencing styles, each time they were ultimately drowned out by the embracers of change and improvement. While many swords associated with saints, nobles, and the like were preserved in churches or princely collections, they were not considered as templates for future generations of swordsmiths, and tended to be valued more for their history than for the intrinsic qualities of their blades. Contrast this with Japan, in which ''Kotō'' (古刀, "old swords") from around 900–1596 were considered the best and imitated by later swordsmiths, while the succeeding Shintō (新刀, "new swords") made from 1596–1780 were considered to be of lesser quality in comparison.everything else.\\



But let's step away from the general history of swords for a bit, and focus a bit more on the difference between Japanese and Western viewpoints of the sword. From a Western standpoint, a sword is often seen as a weapon or a tool. Now what does this mean? Most Westerners who think about the katana, judge it more for it's functionality; how sharp it is, how well it can cut, and how nimble it can be used with two hands. From a Japanese viewpoint however, the katana is valued more than it's role as a weapon. Japan's national religion, Shintoism, is a very spiritual religion. And in most Shinto lores and mythologies, the sword is often portrayed as a divine sacred object. Arguably the most famous of this is the founding myth of Japan, where it establishes on the two gods, Izanami and Izanagi, creating the Japanese archipelago by dipping a sacred coral blade into the ocean before stirring it. So it goes to show that the katana in Japanese culture is valued more for it's divinity than as a weapon. Throughout the entirety of Japanese history, swords and sword-making was recognized as a form of high art. Especially important, because Japanese swordsmiths, who also happen to be Shinto priests, are expected to religiously devote themselves in the forging the sword. They have to perform prayers and rituals before and after the forging to create an object that is sacred in value. Thus, Japan, for centuries, have done a meticulous job of preserving the arts of sword-making, and even swordsmanship.

Meanwhile in Europe the older types of sword fell out of use due to changes in warfare and fashion--replaced by newer styles until swords were eventually discarded altogether--causing the smithing and teaching traditions associated with those weapons to die out. The old swords went into collections and museums where hardly anyone handled them anymore, while many of the fencing manuals preserving these teachings sat forgotten in old libraries. This general unfamiliarity with the old tools allowed later European writers to conjure up the pervasive myth of medieval European swords as being dull, twenty-pound bars of iron that prevented any kind of sophisticated technique, either to distance themselves from the brutish violence of the Middle Ages or to depict proto-nationalist heroes like William Wallace or Richard the Lionhearted as possessing superhuman physical strength. The low opinion of European swords compared to Japanese ones has been encouraged by the fact that many Japanese blades have been fastidiously maintained throughout history--including modern museum-sanctioned repolishing which demonstrates some ValuesDissonance between Japanese and Western preservation mindsets[[note]]Western museums tend to regard removing the original patina as destructive to the object and the historical record, while custodians in Japan are more likely to think that historical treasures are best appreciated by continuing to use and maintain them[[/note]]--while many early European swords in museums today are in excavated condition, being corroded and sometimes partially disintegrated from lying in graves or the bottoms of rivers for centuries. It's like the difference between looking at a new car at the dealership and a rusted-out auto body at the junkyard, with the drivetrain gone and all the seats and interior stripped out. That wreck was a beautiful new car once upon a time, but it's hard to imagine its former glory just from looking at its dilapedated remains; an explorer from outer space who had never seen a new car before might conclude that automobiles must have been crude, inefficient, ugly machines, and much the same fallacy has been applied to old European swords. Fortunately there are still significant numbers of European swords which are in good condition, but most people will never get a chance to hold one of these swords, and they're unlikely to get a flattering impression from films, television, or even modern replicas. In films, stage fights, and shows at Renaissance Faires, {{Flynning}} and inaccurately-made weapons are the rule rather than the exception. Most budget-priced medieval European sword replicas on the market are inaccurate and cut corners: incorrect proportions, unergonomic hilts, too much weight, poor balance and handling, little or no distal taper, bad edge geometry and sharpening, cheap steel, and unreliable heat treatment make these weapons less impressive than historical ones were, and whoever handles one without understanding the difference will get the wrong idea. Uninformed consumers who aren't serious history nuts are unlikely to pay higher prices for good replicas that would give them a more correct and flattering impression.\\

to:

But let's step away from the general history of swords for a bit, and focus a bit more on the difference between Japanese and Western viewpoints of the sword. From a Western standpoint, a sword is often seen as a weapon or a tool. Now what does this mean? Most Westerners who think about the katana, judge it more for it's functionality; how sharp it is, how well it can cut, and how nimble it can be used with two hands. From a Japanese viewpoint however, the katana is valued more than it's role as a weapon. Japan's national religion, Shintoism, is a very spiritual religion. And in most Shinto lores and mythologies, the sword is often portrayed as a divine sacred object. Arguably the most famous of this is the founding myth of Japan, where it establishes on the two gods, Izanami and Izanagi, creating the Japanese archipelago by dipping a sacred coral blade into the ocean before stirring it. So it goes to show that the katana in Japanese culture is valued more has a special appeal for it's divinity than as a weapon. Throughout those who think OlderIsBetter, believing the entirety craftsmen of Japanese history, olden times had secret knowledge that has been lost to modern craftsmen. Since Japan has a relatively continuous tradition of swordsmithing which goes back to the middle ages and lives on today, it can be said that they still make swords very similar to the old ones. Japan's status as an island nation and the "closed country" policy of the Edo period also meant that their sword-making tradition was recognized as a form of high art. Especially important, because Japanese swordsmiths, who also happen to be Shinto priests, are expected to religiously devote themselves in the forging the sword. They have to perform prayers less "diluted" by influence from their neighbors, thus encouraging gradual evolution rather than disruptive revolution and rituals before and after the forging to create an object that is sacred in value. Thus, Japan, for centuries, have done a meticulous job of preserving its distinct national character. The various governments of Japan since feudal times have also helped to foster the arts of sword-making, and even swordsmanship.

Meanwhile in Europe the older types
craft of sword fell out of use due to changes in warfare making and fashion--replaced by newer styles until preserve its history, culminating in post-war Japan's laws regulating the manufacture, import, and export of swords were eventually discarded altogether--causing while protecting the smithing and teaching traditions associated with those weapons to die out. The old best antique swords went into collections as national treasures and museums where hardly anyone handled them anymore, while important cultural properties. Admittedly, Japan has sometimes had periods of war and disruption which interrupted or destroyed certain sword traditions, such as during the Meiji Restoration when the samurai class was abolished and the wearing of swords outlawed, thus putting many of the fencing manuals preserving these teachings sat forgotten in old libraries. This general unfamiliarity with the old tools allowed later European writers to conjure up the pervasive myth old-fashioned swordsmiths out of medieval European swords as being dull, twenty-pound bars of iron work. Still, Japan's sword culture is more completely preserved than other Asian cultures that prevented any kind of sophisticated technique, either to distance themselves went through more prolonged cultural and technological upheaval, and is in a totally different league from the brutish violence of the Middle Ages or to depict proto-nationalist heroes like William Wallace or Richard the Lionhearted as possessing superhuman physical strength. The low opinion of European swords compared to Japanese ones has been encouraged by the fact that many Japanese blades have been fastidiously maintained throughout history--including modern museum-sanctioned repolishing which demonstrates some ValuesDissonance between Japanese and Western preservation mindsets[[note]]Western museums tend to regard removing the original patina as destructive to the object Europe's Medieval and the historical record, while custodians in Japan are more likely Renaissance traditions, which had to think that historical treasures are best appreciated by continuing to use and maintain them[[/note]]--while many early European swords in museums today are in excavated condition, being corroded and sometimes partially disintegrated from lying in graves or the bottoms of rivers for centuries. It's like the difference between looking at a new car at the dealership and a rusted-out auto body at the junkyard, with the drivetrain gone and all the seats and interior stripped be resurrected after completely dying out. That wreck was a beautiful new car once upon a time, but it's hard to imagine its former glory just from looking at its dilapedated remains; an explorer from outer space who had never seen a new car before might conclude that automobiles must have been crude, inefficient, ugly machines, and much Although the same fallacy has been applied to first revivals of old European swords. Fortunately there are still significant numbers of European swords which are in good condition, but most people will never get a chance to hold one of these swords, weapon-making and they're unlikely to get a flattering impression from films, television, or even modern replicas. In films, stage fights, martial arts began in the 19th century, it was not until the rise of the internet in the 1990s and shows at Renaissance Faires, {{Flynning}} and inaccurately-made weapons are 2000s--accompanied by the rule rather than the exception. Most budget-priced medieval publication of more translations of primary sources--that revived European sword replicas on the market are inaccurate and cut corners: incorrect proportions, unergonomic hilts, too much weight, poor balance and handling, little or no distal taper, bad edge geometry and sharpening, cheap steel, and unreliable heat treatment make these weapons less impressive than historical ones were, and whoever handles one without understanding the difference will get the wrong idea. Uninformed consumers who aren't serious history nuts are unlikely arts really began to pay higher prices for good replicas that would give them a more correct and flattering impression.take off.\\



The first visit to Japan by the Portuguese in 1543 began the Occidental World's relations with Japan. Over time, European visitors would be impressed with the cutting ability of the Japanese sword, and brought back some hair-raising tales of beheadings, encounters with fierce pirates, and the like, even if those weren't always related to the weapons they wielded rather than to the swordsmen's ferocity and cultural approach to warfare (for instance, Spaniards from the Philippines talked very highly about their Japanese mercenaries' discipline and dedication, but rarely mentioned their weapons as something special). Naturally, some fine swords entered European collections either as diplomatic gifts or war booty. The isolationist policies of the Edo period limited the amount of direct contact beteen Japanese and Europeans, but by the mid-19th century Japan was forced to sign treaties that opened her up to the West again. This is when Europeans started forming many of the opinions about Japanese swords that they have today.\\

to:

Compared to Japan's traditional culture, which places more emphasis on tradition and basing present practices on the knowledge of one's ancestors, Western Europe has long been focused on the idea of progress and each generation being better than the last. The first visit to Japan by the Portuguese in 1543 began the Occidental World's relations with Japan. Over time, European visitors would be impressed with the cutting ability writers of the Japanese sword, and brought back some hair-raising tales of beheadings, encounters with fierce pirates, Renaissance and the like, even if those weren't Enlightenment created the idea of the [[TheDungAges primitive and superstitious Middle Ages]] because they thought they were so much better in comparison, and while they idolized the greatness of classical Greece and Rome, they nevertheless felt like they could build upon and surpass the achievements of the ancients. Despite the fact that there were always related to proponents of the weapons GoodOldWays who resisted newfangled sword designs and fencing styles, each time they wielded rather than to were ultimately drowned out by the swordsmen's ferocity embracers of change and cultural approach to warfare (for instance, Spaniards from the Philippines talked very highly about their Japanese mercenaries' discipline and dedication, but rarely mentioned their weapons as something special). Naturally, some fine improvement. While many swords entered European collections either as diplomatic gifts or war booty. The isolationist policies of associated with saints, nobles, and the Edo period limited the amount of direct contact beteen Japanese and Europeans, but by the mid-19th century Japan was forced to sign treaties that opened her up to the West again. This is when Europeans started forming many of the opinions about Japanese swords that like were preserved in churches or princely collections, they have today.were not considered as templates for future generations of swordsmiths, and tended to be valued more for their history than for the intrinsic qualities of their blades. Contrast this with Japan, in which ''Kotō'' (古刀, "old swords") from around 900–1596 were considered the best and imitated by later swordsmiths, while the succeeding Shintō (新刀, "new swords") made from 1596–1780 were considered to be of lesser quality in comparison.\\



The European sword industry was nothing to sneeze at, of course, and was especially distinguished by its access to good steel and ability to turn out large numbers of blades that were of at least decent quality. As early as the 16th century, Indian weapon makers were importing blades from manufacturing centers like Solingen, Germany so they could hilt them in the native fashion. The best Indian bladesmiths could make blades that were a match for anything in the world, and none of them were in danger of losing their jobs, but it was the "budget" market that got displaced by the European imports; for the same price as a crappy Indian blade, you could get a munitions quality blade from Europe that was a bit nicer and much more reliable. By the 19th century, especially after the adoption of the Bessemer process, Europe was awash in high quality, affordable steel. The downside to all this innovation was that the sword makers in the meantime had lost some of the traditional wisdom going back to the middle ages, and in some cases ended up having to reinvent the wheel.\\

to:

Meanwhile in Europe the older types of sword fell out of use due to changes in warfare and fashion--replaced by newer styles until swords were eventually discarded altogether--causing the smithing and teaching traditions associated with those weapons to die out. The old swords went into collections and museums where hardly anyone handled them anymore, while many of the fencing manuals preserving these teachings sat forgotten in old libraries. This general unfamiliarity with the old tools allowed later European sword industry was nothing writers to sneeze at, of course, and was especially distinguished by its access to good steel and ability to turn out large numbers of blades that were of at least decent quality. As early as conjure up the 16th century, Indian weapon makers were importing blades from manufacturing centers like Solingen, Germany so they could hilt them in the native fashion. The best Indian bladesmiths could make blades that were a match for anything in the world, and none pervasive myth of them were in danger of losing their jobs, but it was the "budget" market that got displaced by the medieval European imports; for the same price swords as a crappy Indian blade, you could get a munitions quality blade being dull, twenty-pound bars of iron that prevented any kind of sophisticated technique, either to distance themselves from Europe that was a bit nicer and much more reliable. By the 19th century, especially after the adoption brutish violence of the Bessemer process, Europe was awash in high quality, affordable steel. The downside Middle Ages or to all this innovation was that depict proto-nationalist heroes like William Wallace or Richard the sword makers in the meantime had lost some of the traditional wisdom going back to the middle ages, and in some cases ended up having to reinvent the wheel.Lionhearted as possessing superhuman physical strength.\\



For example, scabbards made entirely out of steel had become common because of the need to mass-produce them, and also to make them durable since they would be taken on campaign by conscripts who didn't know the finer points of sword care and were likely to treat their swords and scabbards roughly. A wooden core was an additional expense, so they were often left out. Unfortunately, it turns out that wood is very good for preserving a sword's sharpness, while being kept in metal alone makes them dull really fast even if they've just been sharpened. British soldiers on colonial assignment were often frustrated that their swords would already have become dull within a couple weeks after sharpening, while their Indian and Japanese counterparts always seemed sharp and ready. At the time, the British were just as impressed with the Indian Talwar as they were with the katana, but for some reason that fact seems to have been forgotten by pop culture. European armies were also affected from time to time by a bad batch or some experimental new pattern that turned out to be a failure. Blades that weren't thick enough or that were tempered to be too flexible could fail to thrust through an opponent's greatcoat. There must have been quite a bit of envy, and a sense that the Indians and the Japanese knew something they didn't.\\

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For example, scabbards made entirely out The low opinion of steel had become common because of European swords compared to Japanese ones has been encouraged by the need to mass-produce them, fact that many Japanese blades have been fastidiously maintained throughout history--including modern museum-sanctioned repolishing which demonstrates some ValuesDissonance between Japanese and also Western preservation mindsets[[note]]Western museums tend to make them durable since they would be taken on campaign by conscripts who didn't know regard removing the finer points of sword care original patina as destructive to the object and were the historical record, while custodians in Japan are more likely to treat their think that historical treasures are best appreciated by continuing to use and maintain them[[/note]]--while many early European swords and scabbards roughly. A wooden core was an additional expense, so they were often left out. Unfortunately, it turns out that wood is very good for preserving a sword's sharpness, while in museums today are in excavated condition, being kept in metal alone makes them dull really fast even if they've just been sharpened. British soldiers on colonial assignment were often frustrated that their swords would already have become dull within a couple weeks after sharpening, while their Indian corroded and Japanese counterparts always seemed sharp sometimes partially disintegrated from lying in graves or the bottoms of rivers for centuries. It's like the difference between looking at a new car at the dealership and ready. At a rusted-out auto body at the time, the British were just as impressed junkyard, with the Indian Talwar as they were with drivetrain gone and all the katana, seats and interior stripped out. That wreck was a beautiful new car once upon a time, but for some reason it's hard to imagine its former glory just from looking at its dilapidated remains; an explorer from outer space who had never seen a new car before might conclude that fact seems to have been forgotten by pop culture. European armies were also affected from time to time by a bad batch or some experimental new pattern that turned out to be a failure. Blades that weren't thick enough or that were tempered to be too flexible could fail to thrust through an opponent's greatcoat. There automobiles must have been quite a bit of envy, crude, inefficient, ugly machines, and a sense that much the Indians and the Japanese knew something they didn't.same fallacy has been applied to old European swords.\\



There may have also just been something deeply romantic about feudal Japan that orientalist Westerners admired. Europe and North America in the mid-to-late 19th century were in the throes of industrialisation, and society was changing so fast that it seemed scary and alienating. Therefore, when Europeans finally got a proper look inside Japan, they were surprised to find what to them seemed like a country in MedievalStasis. The people lived under a social order that resembled the structure of European feudalism, with lords living in castles and peasants working the land; the culture supported all kinds of traditional arts and crafts permeated with spirituality and appreciation for beauty; and there were samurai warriors who seemed to practice a code of conduct like that of medieval knights, whose MartyrdomCulture and embrace of HonorBeforeReason appealed to the romantic side of RomanticismVersusEnlightenment; and of course, the government had established the closest possible thing to FantasyGunControl by disarming the population, while enforcing HeroesPreferSwords by making the ''daisho'' the samurai badge of office. Despite the similarities with European history, everything there was so thrillingly foreign, oriental, and exotic, and there was enough ValuesDissonance between the two cultures to generate a lot of interesting drama. This combination of the familiar and unfamiliar contributed to the great fad of ''Japonisme'', the fetishization of all things Japanese. Of course, no sooner had the West gained unfettered access to Japan than the highly conservative social order was already in danger of collapsing from both internal and external pressures, to be replaced in the nationalist and modernizing Meiji Restoration. The samurai were a dying breed, and occidental observers sighed at their passing in much the same way that they lamented the passing of the NobleSavage who once roamed TheWildWest. The romanticized spirit of the samurai which the katana is said to embody is undoubtedly part of the reason it appeals to Westerners so much.\\

to:

There may have also just been something deeply romantic about feudal Japan that orientalist Westerners admired. Europe and North America in the mid-to-late 19th century were in the throes of industrialisation, and society was changing so fast that it seemed scary and alienating. Therefore, when Europeans finally got a proper look inside Japan, they were surprised to find what to them seemed like a country in MedievalStasis. The people lived under a social order that resembled the structure Fortunately there are still significant numbers of European feudalism, with lords living swords which are in castles good condition, but most people will never get a chance to hold one of these swords, and peasants working they're unlikely to get a flattering impression from films, television, or even modern replicas. In films, stage fights, and shows at Renaissance Faires, {{Flynning}} and inaccurately-made weapons are the land; rule rather than the culture supported all kinds of traditional arts and crafts permeated with spirituality and appreciation for beauty; and there were samurai warriors who seemed to practice a code of conduct like that of exception. Most budget-priced medieval knights, whose MartyrdomCulture and embrace of HonorBeforeReason appealed to the romantic side of RomanticismVersusEnlightenment; and of course, the government had established the closest possible thing to FantasyGunControl by disarming the population, while enforcing HeroesPreferSwords by making the ''daisho'' the samurai badge of office. Despite the similarities with European history, everything there was so thrillingly foreign, oriental, sword replicas on the market are inaccurate and exotic, cut corners: incorrect proportions, unergonomic hilts, too much weight, poor balance and there was enough ValuesDissonance between the two cultures to generate a lot of interesting drama. This combination of the familiar handling, little or no distal taper, bad edge geometry and unfamiliar contributed to the great fad of ''Japonisme'', the fetishization of all things Japanese. Of course, no sooner had the West gained unfettered access to Japan sharpening, cheap steel, and unreliable heat treatment make these weapons less impressive than historical ones were, and whoever handles one without understanding the highly conservative social order was already in danger of collapsing from both internal and external pressures, to be replaced in difference will get the nationalist and modernizing Meiji Restoration. The samurai were a dying breed, and occidental observers sighed at their passing in much the same way wrong idea. Uninformed consumers who aren't serious history nuts are unlikely to pay higher prices for good replicas that they lamented the passing of the NobleSavage who once roamed TheWildWest. The romanticized spirit of the samurai which the katana is said to embody is undoubtedly part of the reason it appeals to Westerners so much.would give them a more correct and flattering impression.\\



The folding of the steel billet and the construction of the sword through lamination is always a major source of mystique for the Japanese sword. People tend to assume that the more handcrafting goes into something, the better the result will be. In many cases, such as the hand adjustments to make a hilt and scabbard fit a blade, this really does make a big difference. However, the invention of better smelting and steel-making technologies has reduced the amount of work that a swordsmith has to do in order to prepare the blank, and the raw material is often of better quality. We should consider, here, that what is most beautiful and what is functionally superior are not always the same thing. Many of the traditional processes are indispensible for creating the aesthetic qualities for which the katana is most loved, and fake effects such as a wire-brushed ''hamon'' are always easy to see through. It takes a certain amount of work to make something functional, but an amount of work far above and beyond that is needed to give it that kind of beauty and character.\\

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The folding of first visit to Japan by the steel billet and Portuguese in 1543 began the construction of Occidental World's relations with Japan. Over time, European visitors would be impressed with the sword through lamination is always a major source cutting ability of mystique for the Japanese sword. People tend to assume that sword, and brought back some hair-raising tales of beheadings, encounters with fierce pirates, and the more handcrafting goes into something, like, even if those weren't always related to the better weapons they wielded rather than to the result will be. In many cases, such as swordsmen's ferocity and cultural approach to warfare (for instance, Spaniards from the hand adjustments to make a hilt Philippines talked very highly about their Japanese mercenaries' discipline and scabbard fit a blade, this really does make a big difference. However, dedication, but rarely mentioned their weapons as something special). Naturally, some fine swords entered European collections either as diplomatic gifts or war booty. The isolationist policies of the invention of better smelting and steel-making technologies has reduced Edo period limited the amount of work direct contact beteen Japanese and Europeans, but by the mid-19th century Japan was forced to sign treaties that a swordsmith has opened her up to do in order to prepare the blank, and the raw material West again. This is often of better quality. We should consider, here, that what is most beautiful and what is functionally superior are not always the same thing. Many when Europeans started forming many of the traditional processes are indispensible for creating the aesthetic qualities for which the katana is most loved, and fake effects such as a wire-brushed ''hamon'' are always easy to see through. It takes a certain amount of work to make something functional, but an amount of work far above and beyond opinions about Japanese swords that is needed to give it that kind of beauty and character.they have today.\\



Because of ForeignCultureFetish and lack of skepticism about stories from outside their own culture, people seem more willing to believe exaggerated stories of the katana than sword myths from Western cultures. While chivalric romances often featured knightly heroes chopping their plate-armored opponents in half from the crown of the helmet down to the saddle, not many modern people would mistake this as a thing that actually happened. In contrast, stories about Japanese soldiers cutting off machine gun barrels during UsefulNotes/WorldWarII still circulate the internet as urban legends. As Creator/GeorgeOrwell noted in "Notes on Nationalism", a person who's disillusioned with their own country can believe more ridiculous propaganda in praise of a foreign country than even the most jingoistic native of that country, because they haven't got the personal experience from living there which would make them know better.\\

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Because The European sword industry was nothing to sneeze at, of ForeignCultureFetish course, and lack was especially distinguished by its access to good steel and ability to turn out large numbers of skepticism about stories blades that were of at least decent quality. As early as the 16th century, Indian weapon makers were importing blades from outside manufacturing centers like Solingen, Germany so they could hilt them in the native fashion. The best Indian bladesmiths could make blades that were a match for anything in the world, and none of them were in danger of losing their own culture, people seem jobs, but it was the "budget" market that got displaced by the European imports; for the same price as a crappy Indian blade, you could get a munitions quality blade from Europe that was a bit nicer and much more willing to believe exaggerated stories reliable. By the 19th century, especially after the adoption of the katana than Bessemer process, Europe was awash in high quality, affordable steel. The downside to all this innovation was that the sword myths from Western cultures. While chivalric romances often featured knightly heroes chopping their plate-armored opponents makers in half from the crown meantime had lost some of the helmet down traditional wisdom going back to the saddle, not many modern people would mistake this as a thing that actually happened. In contrast, stories about Japanese soldiers cutting off machine gun barrels during UsefulNotes/WorldWarII still circulate middle ages, and in some cases ended up having to reinvent the internet as urban legends. As Creator/GeorgeOrwell noted in "Notes on Nationalism", a person who's disillusioned with their own country can believe more ridiculous propaganda in praise of a foreign country than even the most jingoistic native of that country, because they haven't got the personal experience from living there which would make them know better.wheel.\\


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For example, scabbards made entirely out of steel had become common because of the need to mass-produce them, and also to make them durable since they would be taken on campaign by conscripts who didn't know the finer points of sword care and were likely to treat their swords and scabbards roughly. A wooden core was an additional expense, so they were often left out. Unfortunately, it turns out that wood is very good for preserving a sword's sharpness, while being kept in metal alone makes them dull really fast even if they've just been sharpened. British soldiers on colonial assignment were often frustrated that their swords would already have become dull within a couple weeks after sharpening, while their Indian and Japanese counterparts always seemed sharp and ready. At the time, the British were just as impressed with the Indian Talwar as they were with the katana, but for some reason that fact seems to have been forgotten by pop culture. European armies were also affected from time to time by a bad batch or some experimental new pattern that turned out to be a failure. Blades that weren't thick enough or that were tempered to be too flexible could fail to thrust through an opponent's greatcoat. There must have been quite a bit of envy, and a sense that the Indians and the Japanese knew something they didn't.\\
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The folding of the steel billet and the construction of the sword through lamination is always a major source of mystique for the Japanese sword. People tend to assume that the more handcrafting goes into something, the better the result will be. In many cases, such as the hand adjustments to make a hilt and scabbard fit a blade, this really does make a big difference. However, the invention of better smelting and steel-making technologies has reduced the amount of work that a swordsmith has to do in order to prepare the blank, and the raw material is often of better quality. We should consider, here, that what is most beautiful and what is functionally superior are not always the same thing. Many of the traditional processes are indispensible for creating the aesthetic qualities for which the katana is most loved, and fake effects such as a wire-brushed ''hamon'' are always easy to see through. It takes a certain amount of work to make something functional, but an amount of work far above and beyond that is needed to give it that kind of beauty and character.\\
\\
There may have also just been something deeply romantic about feudal Japan that orientalist Westerners admired. Europe and North America in the mid-to-late 19th century were in the throes of industrialisation, and society was changing so fast that it seemed scary and alienating. Therefore, when Europeans finally got a proper look inside Japan, they were surprised to find what to them seemed like a country in MedievalStasis. The people lived under a social order that resembled the structure of European feudalism, with lords living in castles and peasants working the land; the culture supported all kinds of traditional arts and crafts permeated with spirituality and appreciation for beauty; and there were samurai warriors who seemed to practice a code of conduct like that of medieval knights, whose MartyrdomCulture and embrace of HonorBeforeReason appealed to the romantic side of RomanticismVersusEnlightenment; and of course, the government had established the closest possible thing to FantasyGunControl by disarming the population, while enforcing HeroesPreferSwords by making the ''daisho'' the samurai badge of office. Despite the similarities with European history, everything there was so thrillingly foreign, oriental, and exotic, and there was enough ValuesDissonance between the two cultures to generate a lot of interesting drama. This combination of the familiar and unfamiliar contributed to the great fad of ''Japonisme'', the fetishization of all things Japanese. Of course, no sooner had the West gained unfettered access to Japan than the highly conservative social order was already in danger of collapsing from both internal and external pressures, to be replaced in the nationalist and modernizing Meiji Restoration. The samurai were a dying breed, and occidental observers sighed at their passing in much the same way that they lamented the passing of the NobleSavage who once roamed TheWildWest. The romanticized spirit of the samurai which the katana is said to embody is undoubtedly part of the reason it appeals to Westerners so much.\\
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Because of ForeignCultureFetish and lack of skepticism about stories from outside their own culture, people seem more willing to believe exaggerated stories of the katana than sword myths from Western cultures. While chivalric romances often featured knightly heroes chopping their plate-armored opponents in half from the crown of the helmet down to the saddle, not many modern people would mistake this as a thing that actually happened. In contrast, stories about Japanese soldiers cutting off machine gun barrels during UsefulNotes/WorldWarII still circulate the internet as urban legends. As Creator/GeorgeOrwell noted in "Notes on Nationalism", a person who's disillusioned with their own country can believe more ridiculous propaganda in praise of a foreign country than even the most jingoistic native of that country, because they haven't got the personal experience from living there which would make them know better.\\
\\
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Meanwhile in Europe the older types of sword fell out of use due to changes in warfare and fashion--replaced by newer styles until swords were eventually discarded altogether--causing the smithing and teaching traditions associated with those weapons to die out. The old swords went into collections and museums where hardly anyone handled them anymore, while many of the fencing manuals preserving these teachings sat forgotten in old libraries. This general unfamiliarity with the old tools allowed later European writers to conjure up the pervasive myth of medieval European swords as being dull, twenty-pound bars of iron that prevented any kind of sophisticated technique, an extreme contrast with how Europeans would soon percieve the swords of Asia. The low opinion of European swords compared to Japanese ones has been encouraged by the fact that many Japanese blades have been fastidiously maintained throughout history--including modern museum-sanctioned repolishing which demonstrates some ValuesDissonance between Japanese and Western preservation mindsets[[note]]Western museums tend to regard removing the original patina as destructive to the object and the historical record, while custodians in Japan are more likely to think that historical treasures are best appreciated by continuing to use and maintain them[[/note]]--while many early European swords in museums today are in excavated condition, being corroded and sometimes partially disintegrated from lying in graves or the bottoms of rivers for centuries. It's like the difference between looking at a new car at the dealership and a rusted-out auto body at the junkyard, with the drivetrain gone and all the seats and interior stripped out. That wreck was a beautiful new car once upon a time, but it's hard to imagine its former glory just from looking at its dilapedated remains; an explorer from outer space who had never seen a new car before might conclude that automobiles must have been crude, inefficient, ugly machines, and much the same fallacy has been applied to old European swords. Fortunately there are still significant numbers of European swords which are in good condition, but most people will never get a chance to hold one of these swords, and they're unlikely to get a flattering impression from films, television, or even modern replicas. In films, stage fights, and shows at Renaissance Faires, {{Flynning}} and inaccurately-made weapons are the rule rather than the exception. Most budget-priced medieval European sword replicas on the market are inaccurate and cut corners: incorrect proportions, unergonomic hilts, too much weight, poor balance and handling, little or no distal taper, bad edge geometry and sharpening, cheap steel, and unreliable heat treatment make these weapons less impressive than historical ones were, and whoever handles one without understanding the difference will get the wrong idea. Uninformed consumers who aren't serious history nuts are unlikely to pay higher prices for good replicas that would give them a more correct and flattering impression.\\

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Meanwhile in Europe the older types of sword fell out of use due to changes in warfare and fashion--replaced by newer styles until swords were eventually discarded altogether--causing the smithing and teaching traditions associated with those weapons to die out. The old swords went into collections and museums where hardly anyone handled them anymore, while many of the fencing manuals preserving these teachings sat forgotten in old libraries. This general unfamiliarity with the old tools allowed later European writers to conjure up the pervasive myth of medieval European swords as being dull, twenty-pound bars of iron that prevented any kind of sophisticated technique, an extreme contrast with how Europeans would soon percieve either to distance themselves from the swords brutish violence of Asia.the Middle Ages or to depict proto-nationalist heroes like William Wallace or Richard the Lionhearted as possessing superhuman physical strength. The low opinion of European swords compared to Japanese ones has been encouraged by the fact that many Japanese blades have been fastidiously maintained throughout history--including modern museum-sanctioned repolishing which demonstrates some ValuesDissonance between Japanese and Western preservation mindsets[[note]]Western museums tend to regard removing the original patina as destructive to the object and the historical record, while custodians in Japan are more likely to think that historical treasures are best appreciated by continuing to use and maintain them[[/note]]--while many early European swords in museums today are in excavated condition, being corroded and sometimes partially disintegrated from lying in graves or the bottoms of rivers for centuries. It's like the difference between looking at a new car at the dealership and a rusted-out auto body at the junkyard, with the drivetrain gone and all the seats and interior stripped out. That wreck was a beautiful new car once upon a time, but it's hard to imagine its former glory just from looking at its dilapedated remains; an explorer from outer space who had never seen a new car before might conclude that automobiles must have been crude, inefficient, ugly machines, and much the same fallacy has been applied to old European swords. Fortunately there are still significant numbers of European swords which are in good condition, but most people will never get a chance to hold one of these swords, and they're unlikely to get a flattering impression from films, television, or even modern replicas. In films, stage fights, and shows at Renaissance Faires, {{Flynning}} and inaccurately-made weapons are the rule rather than the exception. Most budget-priced medieval European sword replicas on the market are inaccurate and cut corners: incorrect proportions, unergonomic hilts, too much weight, poor balance and handling, little or no distal taper, bad edge geometry and sharpening, cheap steel, and unreliable heat treatment make these weapons less impressive than historical ones were, and whoever handles one without understanding the difference will get the wrong idea. Uninformed consumers who aren't serious history nuts are unlikely to pay higher prices for good replicas that would give them a more correct and flattering impression.\\
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The dissapearance of medieval style swords in Europe was not caused by the deterioration of the blade-making tradition; rather the smithing tradition and those particular schools of fencing died out because people in Europe stopped buying and using those kinds of swords.


Meanwhile in Europe, the swordsmithing culture has completely died down in the later centuries. Because of this, the teaching of medieval styles of fencing in Europe became lost in time. The old swords went into collections and museums where hardly anyone handled them anymore, while many of the fencing manuals preserving these teachings sat forgotten in old libraries. This general unfamiliarity with the old tools allowed later European writers to conjure up the pervasive myth of medieval European swords as being dull, twenty-pound bars of iron that prevented any kind of sophisticated technique, an extreme contrast with how Europeans would soon percieve the swords of Asia. The low opinion of European swords compared to Japanese ones has been encouraged by the fact that many Japanese blades have been fastidiously maintained throughout history--including modern museum-sanctioned repolishing which demonstrates some ValuesDissonance between Japanese and Western preservation mindsets--while many early European swords in museums today are in excavated condition, being corroded and sometimes partially disintegrated from lying in graves or the bottoms of rivers for centuries. It's like the difference between looking at a new car at the dealership and a rusted-out auto body at the junkyard, with the drivetrain gone and all the seats and interior stripped out. That wreck was a beautiful new car once upon a time, but it's hard to imagine its former glory just from looking at its dilapedated remains; an explorer from outer space who had never seen a new car before might conclude that automobiles must have been crude, inefficient, ugly machines, and much the same fallacy has been applied to old European swords. Fortunately there are still significant numbers of European swords which are in good condition, but most people will never get a chance to hold one of these swords, and they're unlikely to get a flattering impression from films, television, or even modern replicas. In films, stage fights, and shows at Renaissance Faires, {{Flynning}} and inaccurately-made weapons are the rule rather than the exception. Most budget-priced medieval European sword replicas on the market are inaccurate and cut corners: incorrect proportions, unergonomic hilts, too much weight, poor balance and handling, little or no distal taper, bad edge geometry and sharpening, cheap steel, and unreliable heat treatment make these weapons less impressive than historical ones were, and whoever handles one without understanding the difference will get the wrong idea. Uninformed consumers who aren't serious history nuts are unlikely to pay higher prices for good replicas that would give them a more correct and flattering impression.\\

to:

Meanwhile in Europe, Europe the swordsmithing culture has completely died down older types of sword fell out of use due to changes in warfare and fashion--replaced by newer styles until swords were eventually discarded altogether--causing the later centuries. Because of this, the smithing and teaching of medieval styles of fencing in Europe became lost in time.traditions associated with those weapons to die out. The old swords went into collections and museums where hardly anyone handled them anymore, while many of the fencing manuals preserving these teachings sat forgotten in old libraries. This general unfamiliarity with the old tools allowed later European writers to conjure up the pervasive myth of medieval European swords as being dull, twenty-pound bars of iron that prevented any kind of sophisticated technique, an extreme contrast with how Europeans would soon percieve the swords of Asia. The low opinion of European swords compared to Japanese ones has been encouraged by the fact that many Japanese blades have been fastidiously maintained throughout history--including modern museum-sanctioned repolishing which demonstrates some ValuesDissonance between Japanese and Western preservation mindsets--while mindsets[[note]]Western museums tend to regard removing the original patina as destructive to the object and the historical record, while custodians in Japan are more likely to think that historical treasures are best appreciated by continuing to use and maintain them[[/note]]--while many early European swords in museums today are in excavated condition, being corroded and sometimes partially disintegrated from lying in graves or the bottoms of rivers for centuries. It's like the difference between looking at a new car at the dealership and a rusted-out auto body at the junkyard, with the drivetrain gone and all the seats and interior stripped out. That wreck was a beautiful new car once upon a time, but it's hard to imagine its former glory just from looking at its dilapedated remains; an explorer from outer space who had never seen a new car before might conclude that automobiles must have been crude, inefficient, ugly machines, and much the same fallacy has been applied to old European swords. Fortunately there are still significant numbers of European swords which are in good condition, but most people will never get a chance to hold one of these swords, and they're unlikely to get a flattering impression from films, television, or even modern replicas. In films, stage fights, and shows at Renaissance Faires, {{Flynning}} and inaccurately-made weapons are the rule rather than the exception. Most budget-priced medieval European sword replicas on the market are inaccurate and cut corners: incorrect proportions, unergonomic hilts, too much weight, poor balance and handling, little or no distal taper, bad edge geometry and sharpening, cheap steel, and unreliable heat treatment make these weapons less impressive than historical ones were, and whoever handles one without understanding the difference will get the wrong idea. Uninformed consumers who aren't serious history nuts are unlikely to pay higher prices for good replicas that would give them a more correct and flattering impression.\\
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None


But let's step away from the general history of swords for a bit, and focus a bit more on the difference between Japanese and Western viewpoints of the sword. From a Western standpoint, a sword is often seen as a weapon or a tool. Now what does this mean? Most Westerners who think about the katana, judge it more for it's functionality; how sharp it is, how well it can cut, and how nimble it can be used with two hands. Now in Japan, this is different. In Japan, the katana is valued more than it's role as a weapon. This is all inspired from the national religion, Shintoism. Shintoism is very spiritual. And in most Shinto lores and mythologies, the sword is often portrayed as a divine sacred object. Arguably the most famous of this is the founding myth of Japan, where it establishes on the two gods, Izanami and Izanagi, creating the Japanese archipelago by dipping a sacred coral blade into the ocean before stirring it. So it shows that the katana in Japanese culture is valued more for it's divinity. In the entirety of Japanese history, swords and sword-making has been recognized as a form of high art. Especially important, because Japanese swordsmith, who also happen to be Shinto priests, are expected to religiously devote themselves in the forging the sword. They have to perform prayers and rituals before and after the forging to create an object that they deem to be very sacred in value. Thus, Japan, for centuries have done a meticulous job of preserving the arts of swords, sword-making, and even swordsmanship.

to:

But let's step away from the general history of swords for a bit, and focus a bit more on the difference between Japanese and Western viewpoints of the sword. From a Western standpoint, a sword is often seen as a weapon or a tool. Now what does this mean? Most Westerners who think about the katana, judge it more for it's functionality; how sharp it is, how well it can cut, and how nimble it can be used with two hands. Now in Japan, this is different. In Japan, From a Japanese viewpoint however, the katana is valued more than it's role as a weapon. This is all inspired from the Japan's national religion, Shintoism. Shintoism Shintoism, is a very spiritual.spiritual religion. And in most Shinto lores and mythologies, the sword is often portrayed as a divine sacred object. Arguably the most famous of this is the founding myth of Japan, where it establishes on the two gods, Izanami and Izanagi, creating the Japanese archipelago by dipping a sacred coral blade into the ocean before stirring it. So it shows goes to show that the katana in Japanese culture is valued more for it's divinity. In divinity than as a weapon. Throughout the entirety of Japanese history, swords and sword-making has been was recognized as a form of high art. Especially important, because Japanese swordsmith, swordsmiths, who also happen to be Shinto priests, are expected to religiously devote themselves in the forging the sword. They have to perform prayers and rituals before and after the forging to create an object that they deem to be very is sacred in value. Thus, Japan, for centuries centuries, have done a meticulous job of preserving the arts of swords, sword-making, and even swordsmanship.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


But perhaps one big takeaway of this is the deep cultural values placed in the sword, which is unique to Japan itself; this cultural value is non-existent in other cultures, including Europe. You see, Japan's national religion, Shintoism, is a very spiritual religion. And in many Shinto lores and ideologies, the sword is often recognized as a sacred divine object that can ward off demons or evil spirits. In fact, the founding myth of Japan establishes on the two gods, Izanami and Izanagi, creating the Japanese archipelago by dipping a sacred coral blade into the ocean before stirring it. For the entirety of it's history, swords and sword-making in Japan was often recognized a high form of art. Especially because Japanese swordsmiths happen to be Shinto priests. They perform prayers and mandatory rituals before and after forging the sword (such as not eating meat as a form of purification process). Swords produced in Japan, even today, are often made, for religious offerings by being enshrined to certain temples. Contrast this with the Western standpoint, where swords are valued more as weapons or tools. Westerners value the katana more for it's functionality, such as how sharp it is, how well it can cut, and how nimble it can be used with two hands. Meanwhile in Japan, the katana is more valued for it's cultural background. So the sword in Japan is recognized as an object that demands great reverence. And it has been like since the beginning of it's history to even today.

Meanwhile, the teaching of medieval styles of fencing in Europe died out as the weapons they were based on went out of fashion. The old swords went into collections and museums where hardly anyone handled them anymore, while many of the fencing manuals preserving these teachings sat forgotten in old libraries. This general unfamiliarity with the old tools allowed later European writers to conjure up the pervasive myth of medieval European swords as being dull, twenty-pound bars of iron that prevented any kind of sophisticated technique, an extreme contrast with how Europeans would soon percieve the swords of Asia. The low opinion of European swords compared to Japanese ones has been encouraged by the fact that many Japanese blades have been fastidiously maintained throughout history--including modern museum-sanctioned repolishing which demonstrates some ValuesDissonance between Japanese and Western preservation mindsets--while many early European swords in museums today are in excavated condition, being corroded and sometimes partially disintegrated from lying in graves or the bottoms of rivers for centuries. It's like the difference between looking at a new car at the dealership and a rusted-out auto body at the junkyard, with the drivetrain gone and all the seats and interior stripped out. That wreck was a beautiful new car once upon a time, but it's hard to imagine its former glory just from looking at its dilapedated remains; an explorer from outer space who had never seen a new car before might conclude that automobiles must have been crude, inefficient, ugly machines, and much the same fallacy has been applied to old European swords. Fortunately there are still significant numbers of European swords which are in good condition, but most people will never get a chance to hold one of these swords, and they're unlikely to get a flattering impression from films, television, or even modern replicas. In films, stage fights, and shows at Renaissance Faires, {{Flynning}} and inaccurately-made weapons are the rule rather than the exception. Most budget-priced medieval European sword replicas on the market are inaccurate and cut corners: incorrect proportions, unergonomic hilts, too much weight, poor balance and handling, little or no distal taper, bad edge geometry and sharpening, cheap steel, and unreliable heat treatment make these weapons less impressive than historical ones were, and whoever handles one without understanding the difference will get the wrong idea. Uninformed consumers who aren't serious history nuts are unlikely to pay higher prices for good replicas that would give them a more correct and flattering impression.\\

to:

But perhaps one big takeaway let's step away from the general history of swords for a bit, and focus a bit more on the difference between Japanese and Western viewpoints of the sword. From a Western standpoint, a sword is often seen as a weapon or a tool. Now what does this mean? Most Westerners who think about the katana, judge it more for it's functionality; how sharp it is, how well it can cut, and how nimble it can be used with two hands. Now in Japan, this is different. In Japan, the deep cultural values placed in katana is valued more than it's role as a weapon. This is all inspired from the sword, which is unique to Japan itself; this cultural value is non-existent in other cultures, including Europe. You see, Japan's national religion, Shintoism, Shintoism. Shintoism is a very spiritual religion. spiritual. And in many most Shinto lores and ideologies, mythologies, the sword is often recognized portrayed as a divine sacred divine object that can ward off demons or evil spirits. In fact, object. Arguably the most famous of this is the founding myth of Japan Japan, where it establishes on the two gods, Izanami and Izanagi, creating the Japanese archipelago by dipping a sacred coral blade into the ocean before stirring it. For So it shows that the katana in Japanese culture is valued more for it's divinity. In the entirety of it's Japanese history, swords and sword-making in Japan was often has been recognized as a high form of high art. Especially important, because Japanese swordsmiths swordsmith, who also happen to be Shinto priests. priests, are expected to religiously devote themselves in the forging the sword. They have to perform prayers and mandatory rituals before and after the forging the sword (such as not eating meat as a form of purification process). Swords produced in Japan, even today, are often made, for religious offerings by being enshrined to certain temples. Contrast this with the Western standpoint, where swords are valued more as weapons or tools. Westerners value the katana more for it's functionality, such as how sharp it is, how well it can cut, and how nimble it can be used with two hands. Meanwhile in Japan, the katana is more valued for it's cultural background. So the sword in Japan is recognized as create an object that demands great reverence. And it has been like since they deem to be very sacred in value. Thus, Japan, for centuries have done a meticulous job of preserving the beginning arts of it's history to swords, sword-making, and even today.

Meanwhile,
swordsmanship.

Meanwhile in Europe, the swordsmithing culture has completely died down in the later centuries. Because of this,
the teaching of medieval styles of fencing in Europe died out as the weapons they were based on went out of fashion.became lost in time. The old swords went into collections and museums where hardly anyone handled them anymore, while many of the fencing manuals preserving these teachings sat forgotten in old libraries. This general unfamiliarity with the old tools allowed later European writers to conjure up the pervasive myth of medieval European swords as being dull, twenty-pound bars of iron that prevented any kind of sophisticated technique, an extreme contrast with how Europeans would soon percieve the swords of Asia. The low opinion of European swords compared to Japanese ones has been encouraged by the fact that many Japanese blades have been fastidiously maintained throughout history--including modern museum-sanctioned repolishing which demonstrates some ValuesDissonance between Japanese and Western preservation mindsets--while many early European swords in museums today are in excavated condition, being corroded and sometimes partially disintegrated from lying in graves or the bottoms of rivers for centuries. It's like the difference between looking at a new car at the dealership and a rusted-out auto body at the junkyard, with the drivetrain gone and all the seats and interior stripped out. That wreck was a beautiful new car once upon a time, but it's hard to imagine its former glory just from looking at its dilapedated remains; an explorer from outer space who had never seen a new car before might conclude that automobiles must have been crude, inefficient, ugly machines, and much the same fallacy has been applied to old European swords. Fortunately there are still significant numbers of European swords which are in good condition, but most people will never get a chance to hold one of these swords, and they're unlikely to get a flattering impression from films, television, or even modern replicas. In films, stage fights, and shows at Renaissance Faires, {{Flynning}} and inaccurately-made weapons are the rule rather than the exception. Most budget-priced medieval European sword replicas on the market are inaccurate and cut corners: incorrect proportions, unergonomic hilts, too much weight, poor balance and handling, little or no distal taper, bad edge geometry and sharpening, cheap steel, and unreliable heat treatment make these weapons less impressive than historical ones were, and whoever handles one without understanding the difference will get the wrong idea. Uninformed consumers who aren't serious history nuts are unlikely to pay higher prices for good replicas that would give them a more correct and flattering impression.\\
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


But perhaps one big takeaway of this is the cultural beliefs and values that Japan has with the sword, which is actually non-existent in other cultures, including Europe. You see, Japan's national religion, Shintoism, is a very spiritual religion. And in many Shinto lores and ideologies, the sword is often recognized as a sacred divine object that can ward off demons or evil spirits. In fact, the founding myth of Japan establishes on the two gods, Izanami and Izanagi, creating the Japanese archipelago by dipping a sacred coral blade into the ocean before stirring it. For the entirety of it's history, swords and sword-making in Japan was often recognized a high form of art. Especially because Japanese swordsmiths happen to be Shinto priests. They perform prayers and mandatory rituals before and after forging the sword (such as not eating meat as a form of purification process). Swords produced in Japan, even today, are often made, for religious offerings by being enshrined to certain temples. Contrast this with the Western standpoint, where swords are valued more as weapons or tools. Westerners value the katana more for it's functionality, such as how sharp it is, how well it can cut, and how nimble it can be used with two hands. Meanwhile in Japan, the katana is more valued for it's cultural background. So the sword in Japan is recognized as an object that demands great reverence. And it has been like since the beginning of it's history to even today.

to:

But perhaps one big takeaway of this is the deep cultural beliefs and values that Japan has with placed in the sword, which is actually unique to Japan itself; this cultural value is non-existent in other cultures, including Europe. You see, Japan's national religion, Shintoism, is a very spiritual religion. And in many Shinto lores and ideologies, the sword is often recognized as a sacred divine object that can ward off demons or evil spirits. In fact, the founding myth of Japan establishes on the two gods, Izanami and Izanagi, creating the Japanese archipelago by dipping a sacred coral blade into the ocean before stirring it. For the entirety of it's history, swords and sword-making in Japan was often recognized a high form of art. Especially because Japanese swordsmiths happen to be Shinto priests. They perform prayers and mandatory rituals before and after forging the sword (such as not eating meat as a form of purification process). Swords produced in Japan, even today, are often made, for religious offerings by being enshrined to certain temples. Contrast this with the Western standpoint, where swords are valued more as weapons or tools. Westerners value the katana more for it's functionality, such as how sharp it is, how well it can cut, and how nimble it can be used with two hands. Meanwhile in Japan, the katana is more valued for it's cultural background. So the sword in Japan is recognized as an object that demands great reverence. And it has been like since the beginning of it's history to even today.
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Upon review, Red hot is an understatement. It comes out yellow and cools through shades of orange before it goes back in.


Japanese swords are made from bloomery steel. Iron-rich sand called ''setetsu'' is gathered and piled up together with charcoal inside the ''tatara'', and after smelting it comes out as a porous mass of iron and slag called a bloom, or in Japanese, the ''kera''. The kera is broken up into pieces, which are tested and sorted into three categories: ''hocho-tetsu'', which is low-carbon steel (about 0.2% carbon); ''tamahagane'', or high-carbon steel (1-1.5% carbon), and ''nabe-gane'', which is pig iron (>2% carbon). Swordsmiths choose the best pieces of ''hocho-tetsu'', ''tamahagane'', and ''nabe-gane'', while the lesser-quality parts go to blacksmiths and tool makers. The sword smith and his apprentices make a billet to form each part of the blade by flattening the pieces into plates, stacking them, and welding them together. The folding of a billet is performed by drawing it out, scoring it with a chisel, and then folding it onto itself so that the two halves are forge-welded together. The billet is repeatedly folded in order remove as many impurities as possible while spreading out any slag that remains, homogenize the distribution of carbon, and achieve the desired carbon level for each part of the blade. Before each heating and folding, the steel is coated in a mixture of clay, water, and straw ash to protect it from oxidation and carburization, with fayalite from the clay acting as a flux to assist in forge welding. Folding the red-hot metal removes impurities in two ways: it is like wringing out a sponge, causing substances other than iron to be squeezed out from between the crystaline structures of the iron by the blows of the hammer, and the heat causes non-oxidized impurities on the outside to bond with oxygen and get burned off. At the same time there are some substances, namely oxides, which cannot be burned off by the forging process and can only be spread throughout the blade so that a fatal flaw doesn't form somewhere. The tricky part of purifying the steel is that despite being desirable, carbon is also technically an impurity and it gets burned off as well. Each time the steel is heated and folded, it is decarburized a little more, so if your starting material has the carbon content you're aiming for, then you'll end up too low by the time you're done forging. Therefore, you need to pick starting material with ''more'' carbon than you're aiming for, so that after you've folded it as much as you intend, the amount of carbon will be just right. The ''shin-gane'' and ''kawa-gane'' need to have different carbon percentages, and therefore require different types of starting material. All three types of steel are used to make the sword. Thus the urban legend that the katana is made of brittle pig iron is only one-third right, and misleading to boot: ''nabe-gane'' is the starting material for the hardest part of the blade, but by the time it's been decarburized by folding it is no longer pig iron. It is possible to ruin the properties of a billet by folding too many times, and a billet should only be folded 8 to 16 times depending on which part of the blade it's for. Since the number of layers is doubled every time you fold it, over 16,000 layers are produced by folding only fourteen times.\\

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Japanese swords are made from bloomery steel. Iron-rich sand called ''setetsu'' is gathered and piled up together with charcoal inside the ''tatara'', and after smelting it comes out as a porous mass of iron and slag called a bloom, or in Japanese, the ''kera''. The kera is broken up into pieces, which are tested and sorted into three categories: ''hocho-tetsu'', which is low-carbon steel (about 0.2% carbon); ''tamahagane'', or high-carbon steel (1-1.5% carbon), and ''nabe-gane'', which is pig iron (>2% carbon). Swordsmiths choose the best pieces of ''hocho-tetsu'', ''tamahagane'', and ''nabe-gane'', while the lesser-quality parts go to blacksmiths and tool makers. The sword smith and his apprentices make a billet to form each part of the blade by flattening the pieces into plates, stacking them, and welding them together. The folding of a billet is performed by drawing it out, scoring it with a chisel, and then folding it onto itself so that the two halves are forge-welded together. The billet is repeatedly folded in order remove as many impurities as possible while spreading out any slag that remains, homogenize the distribution of carbon, and achieve the desired carbon level for each part of the blade. Before each heating and folding, the steel is coated in a mixture of clay, water, and straw ash to protect it from oxidation and carburization, with fayalite from the clay acting as a flux to assist in forge welding. Folding the red-hot metal glowing-hot billet removes impurities in two ways: it is like wringing out a sponge, causing substances other than iron to be squeezed out from between the crystaline structures of the iron by the blows of the hammer, and the heat causes non-oxidized impurities on the outside to bond with oxygen and get burned off. At the same time there are some substances, namely oxides, which cannot be burned off by the forging process and can only be spread throughout the blade so that a fatal flaw doesn't form somewhere. The tricky part of purifying the steel is that despite being desirable, carbon is also technically an impurity and it gets burned off as well. Each time the steel is heated and folded, it is decarburized a little more, so if your starting material has the carbon content you're aiming for, then you'll end up too low by the time you're done forging. Therefore, you need to pick starting material with ''more'' carbon than you're aiming for, so that after you've folded it as much as you intend, the amount of carbon will be just right. The ''shin-gane'' and ''kawa-gane'' need to have different carbon percentages, and therefore require different types of starting material. All three types of steel are used to make the sword. Thus the urban legend that the katana is made of brittle pig iron is only one-third right, and misleading to boot: ''nabe-gane'' is the starting material for the hardest part of the blade, but by the time it's been decarburized by folding it is no longer pig iron. It is possible to ruin the properties of a billet by folding too many times, and a billet should only be folded 8 to 16 times depending on which part of the blade it's for. Since the number of layers is doubled every time you fold it, over 16,000 layers are produced by folding only fourteen times.\\
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One simple reason that katanas might not be "better" in a modern situation is their price. As already mentioned, making a katana in the traditional way is extremely labor-intensive. This is why, [[http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/high-quality-katana.html according to Sword Buyers Guide]], the starting price for a newly made katana from a licensed Japanese swordsmith is about 4,000 USD, with the average being closer to 7,000 USD; the best can cost up to 30,000 USD, and you can hardly ever order them online; you would probably have to go to Japan and prove yourself worthy of owning the sword! If you can't afford a bespoke sword made in Japan, there are cheaper alternatives from China. High-quality Chinese-made katana with folded blades come in the $1,000-2,000 range; you would not want to buy a folded katana for less than this, because the steel quality or forge welds are more likely to be defective, which would actually make it ''worse'' than a cheaper one made from mono steel. A decent, functional Chinese-made katana with a through-hardened mono steel blade can be bought for as little as $300, though you'll normally have to go above $600 to get high quality. The main sacrifice of mass-produced katana comes in fit and finish, especially regarding the ''tsuka'' (hilt) and fittings. And by Japanese law, a sword isn't a ''nihonto'' unless it is made from ''tatara'' steel using the traditional methods, so your mono steel Chinese-made sword technically isn't a "real" katana despite what the marketing may tell you. Also, there's maintenance. Regardless of whether it's a priceless antique or a relatively modest modern sword, if yours is traditionally made then you can't just polish it the way you would one of mono steel, but have to use more skill- and labor-intensive methods. Perhaps it isn't necessary from a purely functional standpoint, but you have to take it to a professional polisher if you want it to look its absolute best, which can cost upwards of $100 per inch. All that comparison is moot if you live in Japan, however, because the manufacture or import of non-native swords is forbidden by Japan's gun and sword law. There, as a result, the traditionally made Japanese sword is the ''only'' real (i.e. made of steel and sharpened) sword you're allowed to own, making it "just better" by default.\\

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One simple reason that katanas might not be "better" in a modern situation is their price. As already mentioned, making a katana in the traditional way is extremely labor-intensive. This is why, [[http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/high-quality-katana.html according to Sword Buyers Guide]], the starting price for a newly made katana from a licensed Japanese swordsmith is about 4,000 USD, with the average being closer to 7,000 USD; the best quality can cost up to 30,000 USD, and you can hardly ever order them online; you would probably have to go to Japan and prove yourself to the swordsmith that you’re worthy of owning the sword! If you can't afford a bespoke sword made in Japan, there are cheaper alternatives from China. High-quality Chinese-made katana with folded blades come in the $1,000-2,000 range; you would not want to buy a folded katana for less than this, because the steel quality or forge welds are more likely to be defective, which would actually make it ''worse'' than a cheaper one made from mono steel. A decent, functional Chinese-made katana with a through-hardened mono steel blade can be bought for as little as $300, though you'll normally have to go above $600 to get high quality. The main sacrifice of mass-produced katana comes in fit and finish, especially regarding the ''tsuka'' (hilt) and fittings. And by Japanese law, a sword isn't a ''nihonto'' unless it is made from ''tatara'' steel using the traditional methods, so your mono steel Chinese-made sword technically isn't a "real" katana despite what the marketing may tell you. Also, there's maintenance. Regardless of whether it's a priceless antique or a relatively modest modern sword, if yours is traditionally made then you can't just polish it the way you would one of mono steel, but have to use more skill- and labor-intensive methods. Perhaps it isn't necessary from a purely functional standpoint, but you have to take it to a professional polisher if you want it to look its absolute best, which can cost upwards of $100 per inch. All that comparison is moot if you live in Japan, however, because the manufacture or import of non-native swords is forbidden by Japan's gun and sword law. There, as a result, the traditionally made Japanese sword is the ''only'' real (i.e. made of steel and sharpened) sword you're allowed to own, making it "just better" by default.\\
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But perhaps one big takeaway of this is the cultural beliefs and values that Japan has with the sword, which is actually non-existent in other cultures, including Europe. You see, Japan's national religion, Shintoism, is a very spiritual religion. And in many Shinto lores and ideologies, the sword is often recognized as a sacred divine object that can ward off demons or evil spirits. In fact, the founding myth of Japan establishes on the two gods, Izanami and Izanagi, creating the Japanese archipelago by dipping a sacred coral blade into the ocean before stirring it. For the entirety of it's history, swords and sword-making in Japan was often recognized a high form of art. Especially because Japanese swordsmiths happen to be Shinto priests. They perform prayers and mandatory rituals before and after forging the sword (such as not eating meat as a form of purification process). Swords produced in Japan, even today, are often made, for religious offerings by being enshrined to certain temples. So the sword is recognized as an object that demands great reverence. And it has been like since the beginning of it's history to even today.

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But perhaps one big takeaway of this is the cultural beliefs and values that Japan has with the sword, which is actually non-existent in other cultures, including Europe. You see, Japan's national religion, Shintoism, is a very spiritual religion. And in many Shinto lores and ideologies, the sword is often recognized as a sacred divine object that can ward off demons or evil spirits. In fact, the founding myth of Japan establishes on the two gods, Izanami and Izanagi, creating the Japanese archipelago by dipping a sacred coral blade into the ocean before stirring it. For the entirety of it's history, swords and sword-making in Japan was often recognized a high form of art. Especially because Japanese swordsmiths happen to be Shinto priests. They perform prayers and mandatory rituals before and after forging the sword (such as not eating meat as a form of purification process). Swords produced in Japan, even today, are often made, for religious offerings by being enshrined to certain temples. Contrast this with the Western standpoint, where swords are valued more as weapons or tools. Westerners value the katana more for it's functionality, such as how sharp it is, how well it can cut, and how nimble it can be used with two hands. Meanwhile in Japan, the katana is more valued for it's cultural background. So the sword in Japan is recognized as an object that demands great reverence. And it has been like since the beginning of it's history to even today.
today.
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Added DiffLines:

But perhaps one big takeaway of this is the cultural beliefs and values that Japan has with the sword, which is actually non-existent in other cultures, including Europe. You see, Japan's national religion, Shintoism, is a very spiritual religion. And in many Shinto lores and ideologies, the sword is often recognized as a sacred divine object that can ward off demons or evil spirits. In fact, the founding myth of Japan establishes on the two gods, Izanami and Izanagi, creating the Japanese archipelago by dipping a sacred coral blade into the ocean before stirring it. For the entirety of it's history, swords and sword-making in Japan was often recognized a high form of art. Especially because Japanese swordsmiths happen to be Shinto priests. They perform prayers and mandatory rituals before and after forging the sword (such as not eating meat as a form of purification process). Swords produced in Japan, even today, are often made, for religious offerings by being enshrined to certain temples. So the sword is recognized as an object that demands great reverence. And it has been like since the beginning of it's history to even today.
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Cementite is slightly more dense than martensite at the same temperature, which contributes to the bending as the blade cools.


A traditionally made Japanese sword blade (the katana is a Japanese sword, but not EveryJapaneseSwordIsAKatana) is defined by three things: being made of ''tamahagane'' steel, smelted from iron-rich sand in a large clay furnace called a ''tatara'' and folded several times to form a layered billet; being of laminated construction, of which the most common version--the ''kobuse''-style--is a high-carbon outer "skin steel" (''kawagane'') wrapped around and forge-welded to a low-carbon inner "core steel" (''shingane''); and being differentially hardened. Differential hardening is performed by applying insulating layers of clay to the blade, which are thicker on the back than on the edge. The coated blade is heated to a high enough temperature that it becomes non-magnetic, and then quenched in a trough of cold water. During quenching the edge cools rapidly and gets set into a very hard crystaline structure called martensite. The slower-cooling sides of the blade become not-quite-so-hard pearlite, while the core and back of the blade comprising the ''shingane'' ends up as malleable cementite, and may even consist partially of ferrite or pure iron. The pattern in which the clay is applied will determine the appearance of the ''hamon'', a cloudy pattern showing the boundary between the hardened edge and the softer body of the blade. Unlike a Western sword, the katana is not tempered after hardening. Differential hardening is also what gives the blade its curvature: unlike a curved sword blade made from a carbon-homogeneous piece of steel, which is forged in a curved shape before heat treatment, the Japanese sword blade is forged almost straight and actually ''bends itself'' into a curved shape as it's quenched because the edge and the body have different masses and cool at different rates. At first the blade bends forward because the edge is first to cool, but there is more material in the spine, and as it catches up to the edge in terms of cooling it overpowers the initial tendency to bend forward and pulls the sword into its final backward-curving shape. If there was an error in the making of the blade it's possible that quenching will cause it to bend crookedly, in which case the smith has to start all over again.\\

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A traditionally made Japanese sword blade (the katana is a Japanese sword, but not EveryJapaneseSwordIsAKatana) is defined by three things: being made of ''tamahagane'' steel, smelted from iron-rich sand in a large clay furnace called a ''tatara'' and folded several times to form a layered billet; being of laminated construction, of which the most common version--the ''kobuse''-style--is a high-carbon outer "skin steel" (''kawagane'') wrapped around and forge-welded to a low-carbon inner "core steel" (''shingane''); and being differentially hardened. Differential hardening is performed by applying insulating layers of clay to the blade, which are thicker on the back than on the edge. The coated blade is heated to a high enough temperature that it becomes non-magnetic, and then quenched in a trough of cold water. During quenching the edge cools rapidly and gets set into a very hard crystaline structure called martensite. The slower-cooling sides of the blade become not-quite-so-hard pearlite, while the core and back of the blade comprising the ''shingane'' ends up as malleable cementite, and may even consist partially of ferrite or pure iron. The pattern in which the clay is applied will determine the appearance of the ''hamon'', a cloudy pattern showing the boundary between the hardened edge and the softer body of the blade. Unlike a Western sword, the katana is not tempered after hardening. Differential hardening is also what gives the blade its curvature: unlike a curved sword blade made from a carbon-homogeneous piece of steel, which is forged in a curved shape before heat treatment, the Japanese sword blade is forged almost straight and actually ''bends itself'' into a curved shape as it's quenched because the edge and the body have different masses densities and thicknesses and cool at different rates. At first the blade bends forward because the edge is first to cool, but there is more and slightly-more-dense material in the spine, and as it catches up to the edge in terms of cooling it overpowers the initial tendency to bend forward and pulls the sword into its final backward-curving shape. If there was an error in the making of the blade it's possible that quenching will cause it to bend crookedly, in which case the smith has to start all over again.\\
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People who want to believe tall tales about the katana will move the burden of proof, claiming you can't prove that they ''didn't'' happen. If you take the stereotypical HypotheticalFightDebate where an army of plate armored European knights invades Japan in the 15th or 16th century--or vice-versa with katana-wielding samurai invading Western Europe--the fact that for obvious geographical and logistical reasons this ''didn't'' happen is rather convenient: whoever is already predisposed to believe that samurai would have chopped Western swords in half with their katanas and sliced through plate armor like butter is secure in the knowledge that there is not an event in the history books which proves this belief wrong. History buffs can count some chosen incidents where Spanish and Portuguese swords did clash against their Japanese counterparts, such as the battles of [[UsefulNotes/CagayanBattles Cagayán]], Manilla and Fukuda Bay, but as those were, you know, literal battles, complete with artillery, fortified positions and all sorts of weapons aside from swords, it becomes a moot point again to rate their individual performances: the excuse tends to be that the Iberians prevailed in all those cases exclusively thanks to their superior firearms (after all, [[FirearmsAreCowardly no proper samurai would ever use such dishonorable weapons]], right?), leaving it open to claim that a knightly duel would have seen a wholly different result. And it should be fairly easy to prove through physics calculations that katana cutting through steel swords or gun barrels is impossible--which can also be determined from next-best-thing tests using the best practitioners and replicas available--but katana supremacists can potentially deny this conclusion as long as there still hasn't been a perfect experiment using a real antique masterwork katana wielded by an Nth ''dan'' master of the XYZ school of swordsmanship against a real medieval breastplate or WWII U.S. machine gun, which for reasons of cost and historical preservation is probably never going to be performed.

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People who want to believe tall tales about the katana will move the burden of proof, claiming you can't prove that they ''didn't'' happen. If you take the stereotypical HypotheticalFightDebate where an army of plate armored European knights invades Japan in the 15th or 16th century--or vice-versa with katana-wielding samurai invading Western Europe--the fact that for obvious geographical and logistical reasons this ''didn't'' happen is rather convenient: whoever is already predisposed to believe that samurai would have chopped Western swords in half with their katanas and sliced through plate armor like butter is secure in the knowledge that there is not an event in the history books which proves this belief wrong. History buffs can count some chosen incidents where Spanish and Portuguese swords did clash against their Japanese counterparts, such as the battles of [[UsefulNotes/CagayanBattles Cagayán]], Manilla Manila and Fukuda Bay, but as those were, you know, literal battles, complete with artillery, fortified positions and all sorts of weapons aside from swords, it becomes a moot point again to rate their individual performances: the excuse tends to be that the Iberians prevailed in all those cases exclusively thanks to their superior firearms (after all, [[FirearmsAreCowardly no proper samurai would ever use such dishonorable weapons]], right?), leaving it open to claim that a knightly duel would have seen a wholly different result. And it should be fairly easy to prove through physics calculations that katana cutting through steel swords or gun barrels is impossible--which can also be determined from next-best-thing tests using the best practitioners and replicas available--but katana supremacists can potentially deny this conclusion as long as there still hasn't been a perfect experiment using a real antique masterwork katana wielded by an Nth ''dan'' master of the XYZ school of swordsmanship against a real medieval breastplate or WWII U.S. machine gun, which for reasons of cost and historical preservation is probably never going to be performed.
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The first visit to Japan by the Portuguese in 1543 began the Occidental World's relations with Japan. From the beginning, European visitors were impressed with the cutting ability of the Japanese sword, and brought back some hair-raising tales of beheadings, encounters with fierce pirates, and the like. Naturally, some fine swords entered European collections as diplomatic gifts. The isolationist policies of the Edo period limited the amount of direct contact beteen Japanese and Europeans, but by the mid-19th century Japan was forced to sign treaties that opened her up to the West again. This is when Europeans started forming many of the opinions about Japanese swords that they have today.\\

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The first visit to Japan by the Portuguese in 1543 began the Occidental World's relations with Japan. From the beginning, Over time, European visitors were would be impressed with the cutting ability of the Japanese sword, and brought back some hair-raising tales of beheadings, encounters with fierce pirates, and the like. like, even if those weren't always related to the weapons they wielded rather than to the swordsmen's ferocity and cultural approach to warfare (for instance, Spaniards from the Philippines talked very highly about their Japanese mercenaries' discipline and dedication, but rarely mentioned their weapons as something special). Naturally, some fine swords entered European collections either as diplomatic gifts.gifts or war booty. The isolationist policies of the Edo period limited the amount of direct contact beteen Japanese and Europeans, but by the mid-19th century Japan was forced to sign treaties that opened her up to the West again. This is when Europeans started forming many of the opinions about Japanese swords that they have today.\\



The European sword industry was nothing to sneeze at, mind you, and was especially distinguished by its access to good steel and ability to turn out large numbers of blades that were of at least decent quality. As early as the 16th century, Indian weapon makers were importing blades from manufacturing centers like Solingen, Germany so they could hilt them in the native fashion. The best Indian bladesmiths could make blades that were a match for anything in the world, and none of them were in danger of losing their jobs, but it was the "budget" market that got displaced by the European imports; for the same price as a crappy Indian blade, you could get a munitions quality blade from Europe that was a bit nicer and much more reliable. By the 19th century, especially after the adoption of the Bessemer process, Europe was awash in high quality, affordable steel. The downside to all this innovation was that the sword makers in the meantime had lost some of the traditional wisdom going back to the middle ages, and in some cases ended up having to reinvent the wheel.\\

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The European sword industry was nothing to sneeze at, mind you, of course, and was especially distinguished by its access to good steel and ability to turn out large numbers of blades that were of at least decent quality. As early as the 16th century, Indian weapon makers were importing blades from manufacturing centers like Solingen, Germany so they could hilt them in the native fashion. The best Indian bladesmiths could make blades that were a match for anything in the world, and none of them were in danger of losing their jobs, but it was the "budget" market that got displaced by the European imports; for the same price as a crappy Indian blade, you could get a munitions quality blade from Europe that was a bit nicer and much more reliable. By the 19th century, especially after the adoption of the Bessemer process, Europe was awash in high quality, affordable steel. The downside to all this innovation was that the sword makers in the meantime had lost some of the traditional wisdom going back to the middle ages, and in some cases ended up having to reinvent the wheel.\\



People who want to believe tall tales about the katana will move the burden of proof, claiming you can't prove that they ''didn't'' happen. If you take the stereotypical HypotheticalFightDebate where an army of plate armored European knights invades Japan in the 15th or 16th century--or vice-versa with katana-wielding samurai invading Western Europe--the fact that for obvious geographical and logistical reasons this ''didn't'' happen is rather convenient: whoever is already predisposed to believe that samurai would have chopped Western swords in half with their katanas and sliced through plate armor like butter is secure in the knowledge that there is not an event in the history books which proves this belief wrong. And it should be fairly easy to prove through physics calculations that katana cutting through steel swords or gun barrels is impossible--which can also be determined from next-best-thing tests using the best practitioners and replicas available--but katana supremacists can potentially deny this conclusion as long as there still hasn't been a perfect experiment using a real antique masterwork katana wielded by an Nth ''dan'' master of the XYZ school of swordsmanship against a real medieval breastplate or WWII U.S. machine gun, which for reasons of cost and historical preservation is probably never going to be performed.

to:

People who want to believe tall tales about the katana will move the burden of proof, claiming you can't prove that they ''didn't'' happen. If you take the stereotypical HypotheticalFightDebate where an army of plate armored European knights invades Japan in the 15th or 16th century--or vice-versa with katana-wielding samurai invading Western Europe--the fact that for obvious geographical and logistical reasons this ''didn't'' happen is rather convenient: whoever is already predisposed to believe that samurai would have chopped Western swords in half with their katanas and sliced through plate armor like butter is secure in the knowledge that there is not an event in the history books which proves this belief wrong. History buffs can count some chosen incidents where Spanish and Portuguese swords did clash against their Japanese counterparts, such as the battles of [[UsefulNotes/CagayanBattles Cagayán]], Manilla and Fukuda Bay, but as those were, you know, literal battles, complete with artillery, fortified positions and all sorts of weapons aside from swords, it becomes a moot point again to rate their individual performances: the excuse tends to be that the Iberians prevailed in all those cases exclusively thanks to their superior firearms (after all, [[FirearmsAreCowardly no proper samurai would ever use such dishonorable weapons]], right?), leaving it open to claim that a knightly duel would have seen a wholly different result. And it should be fairly easy to prove through physics calculations that katana cutting through steel swords or gun barrels is impossible--which can also be determined from next-best-thing tests using the best practitioners and replicas available--but katana supremacists can potentially deny this conclusion as long as there still hasn't been a perfect experiment using a real antique masterwork katana wielded by an Nth ''dan'' master of the XYZ school of swordsmanship against a real medieval breastplate or WWII U.S. machine gun, which for reasons of cost and historical preservation is probably never going to be performed.



In a fictional setting, the katana presents some more issues. As a cutting sword, it evolved in an environment where armour was typically extremely light and relatively ineffective compared to some of its contemporaries, as can be seen on the Viking v Samurai episode of Deadliest Warrior - even though the katana can cut through mats representing Japanese armour with ease, it's stopped dead by the chainmail worn by the Vikings. Due to the sword's design, it is somewhat more fragile than western counterparts, particularly with the hilt, which means that, unlike bigger, stronger swords like the Zweihander, it can't be used as a substitute club against armour which protects from slashing - chainmail, plate, even tougher leather armours could be expected to stop the sword dead, which is especially problematic against opponents like knights or well-equipped vikings, who wore armour which would have protected them quite handily from strikes from a slashing weapon like the katana. In a modern setting, this is also true of stab vests, which can be purchased much more cheaply than a katana can, as well as, theoretically (though as far as I can tell, never tested), ballistic vests, which might be able to distribute a blow from the katana enough to prevent it cutting. It is, however, definitely true of modern ballistic armour and riot gear, as well as vehicles. The katana was never designed or built to be capable of cutting through metal, and no katana would be able to cut through things like car doors, guns, other swords, metal shields, and especially not tanks (don't believe everything you see in anime, folks). A katana might be a fearsome weapon in the hands of a trained opponent - the same is true of any weapon. As a cutter, the katana is most effective against unarmoured opponents, as it, like any good cutting sword, is capable of striking multiple organs or arteries with one blow. If a character is tending to remove limbs with ease, they probably want a chopping sword (the half-way point between axes and swords, check out the variations on the machete, like the Bolo used in eskrima, or things like the kukri or kopesh). If the character is fighting armoured opponents, they're most likely to have a piercing sword, like an estoc. If they don't know what kind of opponent they might face, a cruciform sword is generally the JackOfAllStats of swords. Generally speaking, the katana is a sword that has its reputation vastly overblown in some media, and undersold in others. It's a situational weapon, and, typically, many writers do not consider the situation in which it is used as a factor in its effectiveness.

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In a fictional setting, the katana presents some more issues. As a cutting sword, it evolved in an environment where armour was typically extremely light and relatively ineffective compared to some of its contemporaries, as can be seen on the Viking v Samurai episode of Deadliest Warrior - even though the katana can cut through mats representing Japanese armour with ease, it's stopped dead by the chainmail worn by the Vikings. Due to the sword's design, it is somewhat more fragile than western counterparts, particularly with the hilt, which means that, unlike bigger, stronger swords like the Zweihander, it can't be used as a substitute club against armour which protects from slashing - chainmail, plate, even tougher leather armours could be expected to stop the sword dead, which is especially problematic against opponents like knights or well-equipped vikings, who wore armour which would have protected them quite handily from strikes from a slashing weapon like the katana. In a modern setting, this is also true of stab vests, which can be purchased much more cheaply than a katana can, as well as, theoretically (though as far as I can tell, never tested), ballistic vests, which might be able to distribute a blow from the katana enough to prevent it cutting. It is, however, definitely true of modern ballistic armour and riot gear, as well as vehicles. The katana was never designed or built to be capable of cutting through metal, and no katana would be able to cut through things like car doors, guns, other swords, metal shields, and especially not tanks (don't believe everything you see in anime, folks). A katana might be a fearsome weapon in the hands of a trained opponent - the same is true of any weapon. As a cutter, the katana is most effective against unarmoured opponents, as it, like any good cutting sword, is capable of striking multiple organs or arteries with one blow. If a character is tending to remove limbs with ease, they probably want a chopping sword (the half-way point between axes and swords, check out the variations on the machete, like the Bolo used in eskrima, UsefulNotes/{{Eskrima}}, or things like the kukri or kopesh). If the character is fighting armoured opponents, they're most likely to have a piercing sword, like an estoc. If they don't know what kind of opponent they might face, a cruciform sword is generally the JackOfAllStats of swords. Generally speaking, the katana is a sword that has its reputation vastly overblown in some media, and undersold in others. It's a situational weapon, and, typically, many writers do not consider the situation in which it is used as a factor in its effectiveness.

Added: 1517

Changed: 1896

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Meanwhile, the teaching of medieval styles of fencing in Europe died out as the weapons they were based on went out of fashion, and many of the fencing manuals preserving these teachings sat forgotten in obscure libraries until the aforementioned Internet Age revival. This general unfamiliarity with the old tools allowed later writers to conjure up the pervasive myth of medieval European swords as being dull, twenty-pound bars of iron that prevented any kind of sophisticated technique, an extreme contrast with how Europeans would soon percieve the swords of Asia. It doesn't help that many early Japanese sword blades have been fastidiously maintained throughout history and are now elegantly displayed in museums with perfectly polished surfaces, while many early European swords in museums today are in excavated condition, being corroded and sometimes partially disintegrated from lying in graves or the bottoms of rivers for centuries. It's like the difference between looking at a new car at the dealership and a rusted-out auto body at the junkyard, with the drivetrain gone and all the seats and interior stripped out. That wreck was a beautiful new car once upon a time, but it's hard to imagine its former glory just from looking at its dilapedated remains; an explorer from outer space who had never seen a new car before might conclude that automobiles must have been crude, inefficient, ugly machines, and much the same fallacy has been applied to old European swords. Fortunately there are still significant numbers of European swords which are in good condition, but most people will never get a chance to hold one of these swords, and they're unlikely to get a flattering impression from films, television, or even modern replicas. In films, stage fights, and shows at Renaissance Faires, {{Flynning}} and inaccurately-made weapons are the rule rather than the exception. Most budget-priced medieval European sword replicas on the market are inaccurate and cut corners: incorrect proportions, unergonomic hilts, too much weight, poor balance and handling, little or no distal taper, bad edge geometry and sharpening, cheap steel, and unreliable heat treatment make these weapons less impressive than historical ones were, and whoever handles one without understanding the difference will get the wrong idea. Uninformed consumers who aren't serious history nuts are unlikely to pay higher prices for good replicas that would give them a more correct and flattering impression.\\

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Meanwhile, the teaching of medieval styles of fencing in Europe died out as the weapons they were based on went out of fashion, fashion. The old swords went into collections and museums where hardly anyone handled them anymore, while many of the fencing manuals preserving these teachings sat forgotten in obscure libraries until the aforementioned Internet Age revival. old libraries. This general unfamiliarity with the old tools allowed later European writers to conjure up the pervasive myth of medieval European swords as being dull, twenty-pound bars of iron that prevented any kind of sophisticated technique, an extreme contrast with how Europeans would soon percieve the swords of Asia. It doesn't help The low opinion of European swords compared to Japanese ones has been encouraged by the fact that many early Japanese sword blades have been fastidiously maintained throughout history history--including modern museum-sanctioned repolishing which demonstrates some ValuesDissonance between Japanese and are now elegantly displayed in museums with perfectly polished surfaces, while Western preservation mindsets--while many early European swords in museums today are in excavated condition, being corroded and sometimes partially disintegrated from lying in graves or the bottoms of rivers for centuries. It's like the difference between looking at a new car at the dealership and a rusted-out auto body at the junkyard, with the drivetrain gone and all the seats and interior stripped out. That wreck was a beautiful new car once upon a time, but it's hard to imagine its former glory just from looking at its dilapedated remains; an explorer from outer space who had never seen a new car before might conclude that automobiles must have been crude, inefficient, ugly machines, and much the same fallacy has been applied to old European swords. Fortunately there are still significant numbers of European swords which are in good condition, but most people will never get a chance to hold one of these swords, and they're unlikely to get a flattering impression from films, television, or even modern replicas. In films, stage fights, and shows at Renaissance Faires, {{Flynning}} and inaccurately-made weapons are the rule rather than the exception. Most budget-priced medieval European sword replicas on the market are inaccurate and cut corners: incorrect proportions, unergonomic hilts, too much weight, poor balance and handling, little or no distal taper, bad edge geometry and sharpening, cheap steel, and unreliable heat treatment make these weapons less impressive than historical ones were, and whoever handles one without understanding the difference will get the wrong idea. Uninformed consumers who aren't serious history nuts are unlikely to pay higher prices for good replicas that would give them a more correct and flattering impression.\\




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[[/folder]]

[[folder:What About Zombies?]]
As a bonus round, what are the pros and cons of a katana in a ZombieApocalypse context? From Literature/WorldWarZ to Series/TheWalkingDead2010, katanas are a go-to choice. And in fact, it's hardly the worst choice you could make. Against zombies, first of all, cutting or chopping is bound to be more reliable than thrusting. A thrust does nothing to slow down a zombie unless you nail it right in the brain; the thrust can usually only threaten one zombie at a time; and there is a risk of the blade getting stuck in the zombie's body when you try to withdraw it. A cut can damage or dismember a zombie even if the brain is not destroyed; a cut can damage or hold multiple zombies at bay; and the blade is less likely to get stuck. As we already established, the katana is a good cutter and one which is fairly forgiving of technique, which would come in handy for a survivor who happened not to be a master swordsman, or one likely to be fighting in situations of panic or confusion. Furthermore, the katana is something of a hand-and-a-half-sword. One can either go two-handed for power, or wield SwordAndGun together. All that said, it would be better for the sake of durability to take a modern-style replica katana with a mono steel blade and reinforced hilt. The zombies aren't going to give you any points for artistic and historical accuracy. You could also substitute other kinds of swords and get very similar benefits, such as a 19th century cavalry sabre or a Chinese dao.\\



As a bonus round, what are the pros and cons of a katana in a ZombieApocalypse context? From Literature/WorldWarZ to Series/TheWalkingDead2010, katanas are a go-to choice. Unfortunately in reality, katanas would be CoolButInefficient. While the long, sharp blade can easily sever a limb or cut through the spine and decapitate a zombie, it would also be too long and unwieldy to properly swing in a confined indoor space. It would also be comparatively heavy and require regular maintenance to keep the weapon keen (blades are at their best against soft tissue, but zombies are unphased by such damage; regularly banging a blade against bone is liable to chip or crack the blade eventually). [[BoringButPractical In a survival situation where weight and resources are at a premium, having a lightweight, tough little number that requires little maintenance and fulfils multiple functions will serve you much better than any fancy sword]]. Contrast the [[MacheteMayhem machete]] or carpenter's hatchet (edge on one side, hammer on the other), which would be three times tougher than a katana while also being a third of the weight, and being half the length limits the reach but allows you to swing it in a tight corridor or doorway. The humble crowbar is even more of a foil to the katana; as it's just a lump of hard iron that needs hardly any maintenance and also can be used to pry open (or bar) doors, break containers, and lift heavy objects.

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As a bonus round, what There are some problems with the pros katana as a zombie weapon, and cons of a they have less to do with the katana in a ZombieApocalypse context? From Literature/WorldWarZ to Series/TheWalkingDead2010, katanas are a go-to choice. Unfortunately particular than with swords in reality, katanas would be CoolButInefficient. While the long, sharp general. A sword with a roughly 30 inch blade can easily sever be a limb or cut through the spine bit bothersome to wear, and decapitate a zombie, it would also be too long and unwieldy becomes awkward to properly swing use in a confined indoor space. It would spaces. Various sword designs from earlier in history might also lack the appropriate design philosophy, being designed in general for warriors who expected to occasionally fight similarly-armed opponents in short, sharp combats requiring a light, well-optimized weapon. It was not expected to pull double-duty as a tool, since there tended to be comparatively heavy a separate logistics train to take care of the warrior's needs, and require regular maintenance as long as it survived any particular combat it was easy to keep send the weapon keen (blades are at sword to a sharpener or cutler for repairs afterward, or in the worst case to simply buy a replacement. Contrast that with the survivor of the zombie apocalypse, who is living hand-to-mouth with few if any human allies to trade or cooperate with, needs to potentially carry any useful tools on their best against soft tissue, but person, and may have to chop through dozens or hundreds of zombies are unphased by such damage; regularly banging a blade against bone is liable before being able to chip or crack the blade eventually). [[BoringButPractical find a suitiable replacement blade. In a survival situation where weight and resources are at a premium, having a lightweight, tough little number that requires little maintenance and fulfils multiple functions [[BoringButPractical will serve you much better than any fancy sword]]. Contrast the [[MacheteMayhem machete]] or carpenter's hatchet (edge on one side, hammer on the other), which would be three times tougher than a katana the sword while also being a third of the weight, and being half the length limits the reach but allows you to swing it in a tight corridor or doorway. The humble crowbar is even more of a foil to the katana; sword; as it's just a lump of hard iron that needs hardly any maintenance and also can be used to pry open (or bar) doors, break containers, and lift heavy objects.
objects.
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Because of ForeignCultureFetish and lack of skepticism about stories from outside their own culture, people seem more willing to believe exaggerated stories of the katana than sword myths from Western cultures. While chivalric romances often featured knightly heroes chopping their plate-armored opponents in half from the crown of the helmet down to the saddle, not many modern people would mistake this as thing that actually happened. In contrast, stories about Japanese soldiers cutting off machine gun barrels during UsefulNotes/WorldWarII still circulate the internet as urban legends. As Creator/GeorgeOrwell noted in "Notes on Nationalism", a person who's disillusioned with their own country can believe more ridiculous propaganda in praise of a foreign country than even the most jingoistic native of that country, because they haven't got the personal experience from living there which would make them know better.\\

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Because of ForeignCultureFetish and lack of skepticism about stories from outside their own culture, people seem more willing to believe exaggerated stories of the katana than sword myths from Western cultures. While chivalric romances often featured knightly heroes chopping their plate-armored opponents in half from the crown of the helmet down to the saddle, not many modern people would mistake this as a thing that actually happened. In contrast, stories about Japanese soldiers cutting off machine gun barrels during UsefulNotes/WorldWarII still circulate the internet as urban legends. As Creator/GeorgeOrwell noted in "Notes on Nationalism", a person who's disillusioned with their own country can believe more ridiculous propaganda in praise of a foreign country than even the most jingoistic native of that country, because they haven't got the personal experience from living there which would make them know better.\\
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Added DiffLines:

\\
As a bonus round, what are the pros and cons of a katana in a ZombieApocalypse context? From Literature/WorldWarZ to Series/TheWalkingDead2010, katanas are a go-to choice. Unfortunately in reality, katanas would be CoolButInefficient. While the long, sharp blade can easily sever a limb or cut through the spine and decapitate a zombie, it would also be too long and unwieldy to properly swing in a confined indoor space. It would also be comparatively heavy and require regular maintenance to keep the weapon keen (blades are at their best against soft tissue, but zombies are unphased by such damage; regularly banging a blade against bone is liable to chip or crack the blade eventually). [[BoringButPractical In a survival situation where weight and resources are at a premium, having a lightweight, tough little number that requires little maintenance and fulfils multiple functions will serve you much better than any fancy sword]]. Contrast the [[MacheteMayhem machete]] or carpenter's hatchet (edge on one side, hammer on the other), which would be three times tougher than a katana while also being a third of the weight, and being half the length limits the reach but allows you to swing it in a tight corridor or doorway. The humble crowbar is even more of a foil to the katana; as it's just a lump of hard iron that needs hardly any maintenance and also can be used to pry open (or bar) doors, break containers, and lift heavy objects.
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Another thing is that katana tend to be relatively short-bladed compared to other kinds of swords with two-handed grips. The length of a Japanese sword's blade--excluding the tang--is the ''nagasa'', a measurement based on an imaginary straight line drawn between the sword's point and the ''mune machi'', a notch at the back of the blade at the top of the tang. In other words, ''nagasa'' refers to the naked steel that isn't covered up by the handle. By modern defnition a katana is a blade of at least 60 cm (23 1⁄2 inches), while those exceeding 90 cm (35 7/16 in) are called ''odachi'' ("great sword") or ''nodachi'' ("field sword"). Matt Easton notes that antique katana that survive today normally have a ''nagasa'' of between 26 and 28 inches (). This may have to do with the average katana blade's relatively low amount of either profile or distal taper, which would make the blade heavier and more forward-balanced for a given increase in length. Also, admittedly, some of today's antiques were shortened during the 19th and 20th centuries when long blades were out of fashion. The broader average stated by Antony Cummins is 60-80 cm (23 1⁄2–31 1⁄2 in). In comparison, European longswords tend to be more like 35 to 40 inches (89–101 cm) in the blade, rapiers 40 inches or more, and even most one-handed sabers of the 19th century had more than 30 inches: keep in mind that an acutely tapered longsword or arming sword has a lot more profile taper than a katana, while a European saber would have more distal taper than a katana. Another category of Japanese swords, ''Nodachi'', could have blades of up to 130 cm; however, this trope is called ''Katanas'' Are Just Better, and by definition the katana is limited in length. A complicating factor [[https://youtu.be/J_S3tS4K_T4 pointed out]] by Cummins is that the height of people in that time and place may have influenced the length of swords. The average height of a Sengoku Period man as derived from period texts and skeletal remains was around 5 ft or 5 ft 2 in, which is shorter than a lot of present day people. A 6 ft tall person would need a 70 cm katana to keep the same proportional relationship as a 5 ft tall person using a 60 cm katana.\\

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Another thing is that katana tend to be relatively short-bladed compared to other kinds of swords with two-handed grips. The length of a Japanese sword's blade--excluding the tang--is the ''nagasa'', a measurement based on an imaginary straight line drawn between the sword's point and the ''mune machi'', a notch at the back of the blade at the top of the tang. In other words, ''nagasa'' refers to the naked steel that isn't covered up by the handle. By modern defnition a katana is a blade of at least 60 cm (23 1⁄2 inches), while those exceeding 90 cm (35 7/16 in) are called ''odachi'' ("great sword") or ''nodachi'' ("field sword"). Matt Easton notes that antique katana that survive today normally have a ''nagasa'' of between 26 and 28 inches ().(66 and 71 cm). This may have to do with the average katana blade's relatively low amount of either profile or distal taper, which would make the blade heavier and more forward-balanced for a given increase in length. Also, admittedly, some of today's antiques were shortened during the 19th and 20th centuries when long blades were out of fashion. The broader average stated by Antony Cummins is 60-80 cm (23 1⁄2–31 1⁄2 in). In comparison, European longswords tend to be more like 35 to 40 inches (89–101 cm) in the blade, rapiers 40 inches or more, and even most one-handed sabers of the 19th century had more than 30 inches: keep in mind that an acutely tapered longsword or arming sword has a lot more profile taper than a katana, while a European saber would have more distal taper than a katana. Another category of Japanese swords, ''Nodachi'', could have blades of up to 130 cm; however, this trope is called ''Katanas'' Are Just Better, and by definition the katana is limited in length. A complicating factor [[https://youtu.be/J_S3tS4K_T4 pointed out]] by Cummins is that the height of people in that time and place may have influenced the length of swords. The average height of a Sengoku Period man as derived from period texts and skeletal remains was around 5 ft or 5 ft 2 in, which is shorter than a lot of present day people. A 6 ft tall person would need a 70 cm katana to keep the same proportional relationship as a 5 ft tall person using a 60 cm katana.\\
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People who want to believe tall tales about the katana will move the burden of proof, claiming you can't prove that they ''didn't'' happen. If you take the stereotypical HypotheticalFightDebate where an army of plate armored European knights invades Japan in the 15th or 16th century--or vice-versa with katana-wielding samurai invading Western Europe--the fact that for obvious geographical and logistical reasons this ''didn't'' happen is rather convenient: whoever is already predisposed to believe that samurai would have chopped Western swords in half with their katanas and sliced through plate armor like butter is secure in the knowledge that there is not an event in the history books which proves this belief wrong. And it should be fairly easy to prove through physics calculations that katana cutting through steel swords or gun barrels is impossible, which can also be determined from next-best-thing tests using replicas, but katana supremacists can deny this conclusion as long as there still hasn't been a perfect experiment using a real antique katana wielded by a kenjutsu master against a real medieval breastplate or WWII U.S. machine gun, which for reasons of cost and historical preservation is probably never going to be performed.

to:

People who want to believe tall tales about the katana will move the burden of proof, claiming you can't prove that they ''didn't'' happen. If you take the stereotypical HypotheticalFightDebate where an army of plate armored European knights invades Japan in the 15th or 16th century--or vice-versa with katana-wielding samurai invading Western Europe--the fact that for obvious geographical and logistical reasons this ''didn't'' happen is rather convenient: whoever is already predisposed to believe that samurai would have chopped Western swords in half with their katanas and sliced through plate armor like butter is secure in the knowledge that there is not an event in the history books which proves this belief wrong. And it should be fairly easy to prove through physics calculations that katana cutting through steel swords or gun barrels is impossible, which impossible--which can also be determined from next-best-thing tests using replicas, but the best practitioners and replicas available--but katana supremacists can potentially deny this conclusion as long as there still hasn't been a perfect experiment using a real antique masterwork katana wielded by a kenjutsu an Nth ''dan'' master of the XYZ school of swordsmanship against a real medieval breastplate or WWII U.S. machine gun, which for reasons of cost and historical preservation is probably never going to be performed.

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