This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Anonymous: ...Kisshu has a sister? Um, citations, please?
Jisu: It's not proven who the two people with him in his flashback about the alien planet are, but we assume that it's a mother and a sister.
Jisu: PURIST RAGE. Seriously, The Swedish Elf, can you explain yourself? I'd bring this up on your contributor's page, but apparently, you don't have one.
- What's wrong with the canon names, and why must you use the Tokyopop ones?
- What's wrong with Zakuro/Minto? Removing examples related to the pairing and mentioning Minto's "just-as-notable attraction to men" (really? How many times has she showed interest toward a male? How many times has she gone Squee because Zakuro talked to her today? We're talking a very imbalanced scale here.) smacks of Yuri Is Ew.
TheSwedishElf: Heh. Purist Rage is right. For the record, I effing hate purist anime fans. They're an embarrassment to the normal ones. First off, the names I put are just as canon. You do realize that Minto, Retasu, Purin, Kisshu, etc, are all just how the Japanese say the English food-based names, right? Using the names as they're written in katakana {which is used for writing words foreign to the Japanese} is no different than calling Cloud Strife "Kuraudo Sturaifu". I bet you're probably one of those people who also calls Light and L "Raito" and "Eru". Second, Mint/Zakuro {Oh, sorry, MINTO/Zakuro} is not a canon pairing, so quit acting like it is one. It's based on the incorrect assumption that Mint is not simply an obsessed fan of Zakuro who looks up to her like a sister and wants to be just like her but rather madly in love with her. You have to realize, our culture may see a girl fawning over another girl and automatically proclaim "SHE BE A LESBIAN", but the Japanese don't, because they're mature enough to understand that there's about 50 varieties of the concept of love. Sorry for thinking realistically about Japan's culture. But go ahead, add whatever yuri fan pandering you want.
Jisu: Idiot. For one, purists DO call them Cloud, Light and L. Purism is sticking with the original intent of the series creator, as well as common sense. Minto is Japanese. Retasu is Japanese. Bu-ling is Chinese. Why would their parents name them Mint, Lettuce and Pudding? Oh, and have you ever even seen their names written in Japanese? Mew Mint, Mew Lettuce and Mew Pudding are in katakana. They are loan words. Minto and Retasu are in hiragana, and Bu-ling is in Chinese hanzi.
Secondly, Minto/Zakuro IS a canon pairing. How on earth can Minto look up to Zakuro "like her sister"? Would you collect photo books of your sister? Would you blush every time your sister smiled at you? Would you go catatonic when your sister, whom you'd never met before in your life, told you to get lost? If your sister did a Face–Heel Turn, would you declare, "I loved you! I really loved you!" while forcing yourself to fight her? If you would, I think you have a few problems. And don't go bringing up the fact that Minto refers to Zakuro as "oneesama". It doesn't just mean sister, although that's the literal meaning; look at any yuri series and you'll have the cute girl calling her older, Tall, Dark and Bishoujo girlfriend "oneesama". Minto's feelings for Zakuro and expression of such are even more fangirly than Ichigo's for Masaya, but you don't go calling them non-canon. Hide Your Lesbians is at work here, to be sure, but again, you're clearly working from a viewpoint of Yuri Fans Are Perverts Who Must Be Censored.
Finally, don't give me that stuff about the Japanese understanding the different concepts of love better than we do. I know you're just trying to cloud it up because of your hatred of girl/girl pairings; I've seen it happen before(Save Our Sailors, anyone? Before they started saying Haruka must really be a man, they insisted that her relationship with Michiru was a "Romantic" Two-Girl Friendship and thought those who saw the truth were perverts) and I'm sorry to say I engaged in it myself when I was an annoying fangirl in the past. Hate to admit it, but it's just as binary there as it is here. Go hug your friend (or your sister) on the streets of Tokyo. Everyone will think you're either a couple or you're American.
TheSwedishElf: I love how you automatically think I'm a homophobe for not thinking Mint and Zakuro are ZOMG CANON LESBIANS. How typical. Yeah, sure, despite the fact that I've read and enjoyed several series with FAR less ambiguous "pairings" of that sort. And if you can find me any Japanese person who just happens to have a name that is also the Japanese pronounciation of an English food name, I'll show you a Canadian $1 bill.
As for your other BRILLIANT points...
"Would you collect photo books of your sister?" Is Zakuro just some normal girl off the streets? No, she's a frickin' world-famous teen model, and Mint's idol. It's absolutely no different than girls of that age here collecting pictures of models. "Would you blush every time your sister smiled at you?" That can also be used to show same-sex idol worship in anime. "Would you go catatonic when your sister, whom you'd never met before in your life, told you to get lost?" Again, idol worship. I would in fact be crushed if someone I thought was so nice and wonderful and who I looked up to and wanted to be just like treated me like dirt. And you also seem to have conveniently missed the fact that Mint is a spoiled 12-year-old who, early on, expects everything will go the way she wants it. "If your sister did a Face–Heel Turn, would you declare, "I loved you! I really loved you!" while forcing yourself to fight her?" Yeah, about that infamous scene—she didn't use the phrase meaning "I love you romantically and want to spend my life with you". The choice of words was far different, if you take the time to compare it to how Ichigo says the same basic phrase to Masaya, and in Japanese therefore has a somewhat different meaning.
I dunno why I bother anyway, you're just gonna once again treat me like I'm the stupidest homophobic dirtbag alive because I'm thinking like a normal human being instead of an obsessed yuri fan.
The Toon Geekette: Um...pardon me for butting in, but MST3K Mantra, you guys?
(Though, to satisfy everyone on the name issue, I included all the names the Mews have been given in English adaptations)
Jisu: Sorry, I'm just trying to deal with a crazy person here. Thanks, though.
TheSwedishElf: Yeah, of course I'm the crazy person for thinking like something other than a yuri-obsessed otaku.
Ninjacrat: You guys are cognizant you're doing this in public, right? In front of an audience of thousands of people? Just thought I ought to throw that out there.
Jisu: Go tell that to the person who's calling me a mindless Yuri Fangirl and user of Gratuitous Japanese just for trying to stick with the canon. I don't even want to fight, I just want to undo censorship and respond to personal attacks.
Ninjacrat: Well run along, dear.
Jisu: *facepalm*
Shadow of the Sun: I love this site, and, in general, love the people on it. But here is my ultimatum. I hate you. I hate everyone who will argue over such trivial things as freakin' character names. It is a show, made for entertainment, entertainment that is, funnily enough, not diminished based on how you name the characters. Names signify a thing. As long as that thing is identified with a consistent name within the version a person watches, it doesn't matter.
Your opinion is not objective fact. Canon, even Word of God of the author of the piece, is subject to interpretation. Telling me that your opinion is the only right one removes all of my respect for you.
Peace.
Oh, and I don't care what you think of my opinion. Ignore it, treat it as if it was an affirmation, use it to make fish-pudding for all I care. I can't stop you. But damn if it didn't feel good to say that.
TheSwedishElf: Sorry to start this up again, but here's another flawed argument I forgot to point out before.
"Why would their parents name them Mint, Lettuce and Pudding?"
Yeah, cause we know anime, manga and game characters NEVER have names that few to no real people would actually name their child.
Starscream: What the hell?
Jisu: You may have just stepped on your own argument... wasn't it you who asked why their parents would name them Minto or Retasu? Of course they have weird names, because, as you said, Theme Naming is weird. But the only one of them who might conceivably have a connection to an English-speaking country, and therefore have an English name, is Zakuro, and her name is a Japanese word, not a loan word.
TheSwedishElf: I never made such an argument at all. You were the one who insisted Mint, Lettuce, etc. weren't their real names because, AND THESE ARE YOUR OWN WORDS, "Why would their parents name them Mint, Lettuce and Pudding?". You were the one who insisted in your fit of purist rage that their names as pronounced in Japan aren't loan words, but TOTALLY REAL JAPANESE NAMES.
And before you decide it's time to bring in "No Japanese person would name their child after an English loan word", let's keep LIGHT Yagami in mind. And let's keep in mind that it's, y'know, fictional.
Jisu: Death Note has such names because the author didn't want to offend people who would really be named that. No one in the cast of that series has a plausible name at all, and this is INTENTIONAL. Besides, even though names like Minto and Retasu aren't TOTALLY REAL JAPANESE NAMES, I'll just pull up what you said about Theme Naming being weird: they can be named that. I'm saying that they can't be Mint and Lettuce, and that Bu-ling can't be Pudding, because it's less believable. Seriously, do you just come here every few months to check if you've gotten the last word or not? You're giving me a headache.
TheSwedishElf: "No one in the cast of that series has a plausible name at all" Pardon me while I laugh out loud.
Anonymous: Let me bring up for the fact that Mia Ikumi made up the awkward food names for Tokyo Mew Mew out of pure humor and were never the intended names to begin with. They were made randomly out of stress (and intended for temporary placeholders) when her original magical girl horror concepts were rejected by her editors of the time and couldn't think of what to do when requested for a alternate plans instead.
"During one of the project meetings, an editor felt the names might be hard to remember and suggested colors for the names instead, but the food names were eventually kept."
Not valid source on this being the main reason, but plausible.
Jisu: Yes, we know, and we also know it's Theme Naming. It's still Theme Naming whether the Ojou is named Minto or Mint.
soup: Ahhh, I love things like this. There is absolutely nothing more entertaining. Don't complain about it guys. They aren't doing it on the main page, this is discussion. They're discussing. And its funny.
Radioactive Zombie came here because of a suggestion from the Gannon-Banned article. Came for the flames, stayed for the belly laughs.
Milucha did the exact same thing as Radioactive Zombie and is now shaking her head in amusement. As has been said, MST3K Mantra, guys, remember it.
SpiriTsunami also did the same thing as Radioactive Zombie and Milucha; wouldn't have said anything if not for the fact that soup forgot that you need to put a double space between paragraphs when not using the bullet points or else it ends up on the same line. Incredible stuff you've got here, guys.
Ezekiel thinks that all parties in the argument are goddamn idiots but at least The Swedish Elf isn't a frickin' weeaboo.
Kevin-020 thinks we should all just shut up and get on with our lives.
I read the Gannon-Banned section, so I wanna test it out:
—Zoey
Ditto. I laughed, I cried, I made julienne fries. And I like both sets of names equally, just the same way I liked both sets of pre-outer Sailor Senshi names, due to Lita just fitting so well. In fact when discussing TMM outside of imageboards I use the NA names exclusively... Time to run! ~Shiralee
