This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
ParadiscaCorbasi: Putting back some valid tropes.
- Window Pain is a valid trope. Lots of things got thrown out of the windows of Carl's house.
- Badass Grandpa fits even though Carl isn't himself a grandpa; he Took a Level in Badass.
- Lock-and-Load Montage: Carl decides to go after Russell.
- Parental Abandonment: Russell's father isn't around much, and "Phyllis" isn't Russell's mother.
- Show Within a Show: the Charles Muntz newsreels, which included their own tropes:
- Clear My Name - Muntz's reason for returning to Paradise Falls.
- Time-Passes Montage: In the first ten minutes, as we see Carl and Ellie's lives together. Ellie lovingly ties Carl's ties throughout their entire married life together.
Paradisca Corbasi: Thanks for letting me know it was technical difficulties. No harm done. I just wanted to make sure I had 'em to hand if there turned out to have been an actual Edit War rather than what actually happened.
Other Joey: Does anyone else think the movie counts as Magic Realism? Everything is presented totally matter-of-factly, but a lot of it: the house flying, the talking-dog collars, the blimp still working after 70 years in a cave, etc - is really quite fantastical.
- Yes. But not completely.
Paradisca Corbasi: Other Joey, I think the MST3K Mantra applies if you're taking it quite that seriously.
Puffy Treat: I have a theory on why even though the film is presented as a fantasy, some viwers have great difficulty accepting the balloon house: Since it's set in what seems to be more or less something like our world and not Oz or the Galactic Empire, some expect this to be more or less a realistic film, despite being a cartoon. But, in fact, it actually takes place in a world similar to where a lot of the Studio Ghibli films seem to take place: It looks mundane on the surface, but layers upon layers of wonderment and miracles exist that occasionally become revealed.
That said, the current parenthetical interjection to "willing suspension of disbelief" seems a bit...awkwardly worded.
Hadri: It's also because the world isn't well-defined. Incredibles also took place in a lifelike world, but it was a fifties-inspired superhero world; something that viewers familiar with comic book lore understand. Up is a more original story and the universe it takes place in isn't that important, while Incredibles was more of an homage and with the other movies, talking animals, toys, or machinery need not be explained.
Puffy Treat: Okay, I'm at a loss: Which scene is the tidbit about "You Fail Physics Forever" referring to? There are several scenes throughout the second and third acts that could qualify.
- Whoever added that WAS most likely referring to every scene that needed it!
- But that's the confusing thing. Carl made it clear he didn't -want- the house to hit the ground until they reached Paradise Falls. He was afraid all the jostling around would damage the Ellie items.
Jonn: I don't think Ellie is a Disposable Woman; she's not kidnapped by the baddie, nor is she stuffed into the fridge. She's just a normal woman who loved her husband and died a natural death. She especially doesn't fit the "easily forgotten" part, since she's pretty much the entire impetus of Carl's storyline. Also, why were the following dropped?
- Complete Monster: Charles Muntz. I mean, come on, he murdered dozens of people who probably never knew about Kevin, sent his dogs after Carl and Russell with a implicit but obvious intent to kill, forced Carl to a Sadistic Choice, tried to murder Russell (and with one of the most horrifying deaths ever!), tried to murder Carl, and threatened everyone with a shotgun!! He perfectly deserved the death he had.
- Eh, Muntz is more of a villain with a freudianexcuse than a complete monster. This troper had a great deal of sympathy for the man who had been fruitlessly trying to recover his honor for 70 years. Being alone for that long, failing for that long, I would expect that it would drive you a little mad.
- I Am Not Making This Up: And old guy turns his house into a balloon to fufill a promise with his dead wife and move his house to South America. And that's just the premise.
Paradisca Corbasi: I believe Ellie still fits Disposable Woman. She dies just so Carl has something to angst about. It's a very well done version of the trope but she shows up, falls in love, marries him, and dies in the first ten minutes just so we know why Carl's the cranky old man with nothing left to live for except his promise to her.
Also, I don't think "I was hiding under your porch because I love you" fits Blatant Lies. The first thing Dug says to Russell and Carl is "Hi there. I just met you and I love you!" so I think the rest was completely sincere, especially because he no longer felt wanted or welcome in the Muntz dogpack.
Rebochan: That's really unfair to how well her character was developed. I pulled the trope for this very reason - she isn't just there to create angst and then exists the film, job finished. Despite not actually being there for the rest of the film, she's still in the film, whether its from trinkets or words left to Carl or just his constant discussion with her. A Disposable Woman wouldn't have that kind of presence - she'd die and only her death would be mention. In essence, Ellie is still a character even though she's dead rather early on. She's not forgotten. And really, dying of old age after living a full life is not a tragic death. The whole point of the movie is Carl letting go of the kind of grief every elderly person who eventually loses their spouse will go through. At the very least, this trope is subverted because Ellie is not forgotten and because of her effect on the film after her death, but its most certainly not played straight unless every single elderly widow/widower in fiction was married to a Disposable Woman.
Trogga: As for Complete Monster and I Am Not Making This Up being dropped, the first was too nattery and the second was I Am Not Making This Up.
Paradisca Corbasi: I'm thinking that maybe somebody found the sky filling with babies Nightmare Fuel frightening because of how many babies it implied that Ellie wanted to have. And that makes it all the more tragic when we see her in the doctor's office. I didn't take it as "they lost their unborn child" so much as I considered it "they are finding out they can't have children at all".
