This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Looney Toons: I'll be the first to admit that this article is just my adaptation of a brief summary of the concepts that I found elsewhere, and my best attempt at comprehending that summary. If someone with a better grasp of the material would doublecheck and correct it as necessary, I would be very, very grateful.
Citizen: Oh, that's a traditional Japanese proverb? Heh, I recognized it as a proverb used by one of the nations in the Wheel Of Time books. ^^
Seven Seals: Next thing you know it's a Klingon proverb. "Revenge is a dish best served cold"...
Looney Toons: Citizen, Jordan lifted it and recast it a bit. The proverb is actually attributed to the Emperor Meiji, which would put it about a century before The Wheel Of Time.
(random passer-by): These concepts do not seem especially alien to me as a Westerner, but I have read of grave misunderstandings arising from them. It is natural for most Americans, for instance, to hold a door open for a stranger who is struggling with his hands full. Yet many Americans do this in Japan, perhaps holding open the door of a supermarket to allow a woman with an armload of groceries to pass, only to be berated a moment later by the woman's husband: "You! Foreigner! What are you doing? I won't be your On-man! No one asked this of you!"
Perhaps this is a difference of emphasis, rather than a fundamental cultural difference. It is Western "ninjo," which can also be translated as "sense of community." We do not hold a door open in the hope of imposing an unasked-for obligation and extorting a favor; we do it because it is the polite and proper thing that we do for anyone, perhaps rooted in what Kant called the Categoriological Imperative, meaning that we do this not to impose an obligation, but because we want to live in a world where people hold doors for one another.
Citizen: Be nice, LT. I was just amused to recognize the quote. The WOTFAQ has a whole section dedicated to real world references.
Morgan Wick: I think he was trying to, and was just clarifying. But referring to your subject by name before actually starting makes it sound sterner.
Twin Bird: Can we really call Ranma "honorable"? I seem to recall him trying to weasel out of his marriage to Shan Pu via a baldfaced lie (that he was a female crossdresser).
Binaroid: Well, we definitely know that he has standards that he can't or won't bring himself to break (the whole "P-chan" thing with Akane and Ryouga, for instance). Doesn't Japanese honor at least implicitly allow for some double-dealing — or at least creative interpretation — as long as "face" is maintained (for instance, Ranma calling Ryouga "P-chan" in front of Akane, but never spelling it out for her)?
osh: Pretty much. Remember most of the characters do maintain a mostly respectable face to most other people, we just know them intimately enough to know it's bullhockey though.
Looney Toons: In re: the changes to the Ranma entry — the Pillars are not people, they're the four principles in the article. Ranma is not a Pillar of Moral Character, nor is he intended to be seen that way.
mikkeneko: The Fullmetal Alchemist entry seems to be relying on an entirely subjective reading of the anime subtitles; whether Edward is 'cold and distant' and Alphonse is 'whiny and annoying' seems to be massively YMMV. Is this really necessary?
