Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Point of interest? Vincent only says "I shot Marvin in the face", no "just" in there. Not sure if it merits changing the trope name.

Phartman: There are two kinds of shooters, huh? I'd always heard it said that when all the proper gun safety rules are followed, accidents don't happen. Every firearm-related tragedy I've read about always involved someone overlooking the rules (before you even try it; giving an automatic weapon to a child too small to manage the recoil is flagrantly irresponsible any way you slice it).

Eric DVH: Much as I despise Cheney, this isn't really a good example. The trope is about ignoring gun safety rules so commonly taught that they are reflexive for all shooters from childhood (don't store it loaded, safety on until you intend to take aim, point guns away from people even if you don't think they're loaded, etc…), not about intentionally firing at what you misjudged as your intended target, which is the substance of this and every other hunting accident. Removed the following:
  • Real life example: Dick Cheney, on a quail hunt at his friend's South Texas ranch, accidentally shot fellow hunter Harry Whittington in the face and chest with birdshot. However, Whittington had himself ignored a basic safety rule of quail hunting and was standing somewhere he was not supposed to be.

phantomreader42: I would consider "always positively identify your target" to be a pretty basic safety rule, and really just common sense (as stated in my CSI example). But then I actually have been shooting since childhood.

Akodo: I concur, it is one of the "4 rules" I put the cheney example back in, and mentioned the rule he broke

This trope is about it being a reflex of every shooter not to put the finger on the trigger. This is wishful thinking, I'd say. "Finger off the trigger" is a pretty modern rule that was not common around the time "Pulp fiction" was made. Have a look at the Hecker&Koch brochures of that the time for example. has several of the old pictures with their model keeping the finger on the trigger. And even now, I know lots of CAS members and hunters who do the same. So much for the west. And from my own experiences I can tell you that Belarussian and Ukranian police and military even patrol with fingers on the trigger - which makes a simple traffic check very, very interesting.

Akodo: Yes, what is standard practice now wasn't always so. Hawaii Five-0 style, "squat-and-elbow-point" was at one time commonly used by police. Finger off the trigger is a fairly modern one, but watching where the muzzle points is not. Also, I'd not put much faith in HK, they did release an avertisement for their gun where the bullets were loaded backwards into the magazazine (clip for you muggles)

J Chance: The four rules were codified by Colonel Jeff Cooper in the late 60s or early 70s, and took some time to spread around. No, I'm not a shooter, just an obsessive researcher.

Vampire Buddha: I've cut out the irrelevant complaining from the CSI example, to hopefully make it more succint. Here's the original text of said example.
The Furry Fandom in general objected to CSI's "Fur And Loathing" episode, due to the "lookit the freaks" tone and general bad image it gave to the fandom, elevating the lunatic fringe for laughs. This furry troper didn't like that either, but forgave it due to Rule of Funny. His main objection was to the fact that the event that put everything in motion was when some dumbass shot a man in a raccoon suit, thinking he was a coyote, despite the obvious differences in size, shape, and coloration. The idiot forgot perhaps the single most important and obvious rule of firearm safety, which is always positively identify the target you are shooting at. And he apparently was not arrested or penalized in any way, despite the recklessness of this act, the loss of human life, the investigation costs incurred by the crime lab following red herrings, and the general hassle to the convention-goers. Yes, it was an accident, but it was a damn stupid accident, and anyone who made such a mistake probably shouldn't be trusted with a deadly weapon.

From current revision: "In Deus Ex, JC Denton can be seen in the third-person view breaking.". Is "breaking" in this case a technical term I'm not familiar with? —Document N

Akodo: I disagree with the 'elephant gun needs to be shot with it under the arm' note this rifle is in the same chambering as the one that knocks over all the arabs shooting it in seen here

I will edit that out soon unless someone objects

Akodo: I have edited out the following from the tremors comment
  • Also when he is firing the elephant gun he is firing under his arm not on his shoulder. Which is the correct way to fire an elephant gun because the recoil willl dislocate your shoulder.

Phartman: I can see why you took that out; it's completely wrong. Elephant guns got the name from being used to hunt elephants and other very large game, and you don't have a prayer of taking down anything without at least using the iron sights. If you hold it correctly, the recoil impact is transferred through your shoulder instead of into it. It's still very unpleasant to fire, though.

Akodo: I disagree with the CSI miami as an example of a 'subversion' when the lab tech has an accident. Fully automatic does not mean the gun fires without the trigger being pulled (how do you fire it then? Just hope? voice activated? point it at the enemy and give it a little shake?) Full auto means that if the trigger is pulled, the gun will fire until the trigger is released, or it runs out of ammo. This is an example of Shur Fine Gun

Akodo: I removed "* CSI Subversion again: A firearm accidentally went off in ballistics because it was modified to be fully automatic, which meant the trigger didn't need to be pulled for it to fire." as this is NOT how a fully automatic gun works, and is more an example of Shure Fine Guns

"** This troper knows of a five year old who can handle a rifle safely and bullseyes rats with it in her father's barn. Admittedly she can't actually lift it, but operates it pretty well from a rest..." - Just been cut from the article because it's a pointless addition, also because I know approximately twenty-seven children around that age who can't handle and fire rifles. One example hardly disproves anything.

I remember a Batman comic where he reveals to the current Robin (Tim Drake?) that the Batcave has guns. Which they will practice throwing. Never saw a scene of Batman throwing a gun at someone. That would have been a CMOA. Yes, I've seen mooks throw guns at Superman.

The Final Fantasy Tactics example doesn't really fit. The world of Ivalice, having only recently begun to rediscover firearms of any sort, has no gun safety rules to speak of. The one about Worker 8 is funny, but not really relevant.