This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Working Title: Anti Fans: From YKTTW
Okay, what happened and how can I easily edit it back into shape? This wiki needs Wikipedia's revert button.
Hit-and-Run: Removed references to actual racism and religious bigotry (including the fatwa against Salman Rushdie) from the "Real Life" section. I feel that to call these things Hatedom (i.e. negative fandom) is to trivialise them. I'd personally question whether a "Real Life" section is necessary, but that's up to you guys. I also removed a comment that just seemed like the author taking the opportunity to complain about people being mean to him (or her).
Rissa: Not quite sure I'm getting the 4chan reference. Is it that everyone hates 4chan, that 4chan hates everything, or that 4chan hates itself? (All three of these are probably true.)
Mman: I'm kind of curious about the "You only started hating Family Guy because South Park told you to." quote. Wasn't Cartoon Wars (I'm assuming that's what it's referring to) essentially a big Affectionate Parody of Family Guy? Is interpreting it as negative towards the show some sort of "hatedumb" or something?
Lord TNK: Why do you assume that episode wasn't bashing Family Guy?
Deadguy: [Affectionate Parody Affectionate Parodys] have to be Affectionate, which Southpark isn't. I'd say it's a safe bet that Southpark was genuinely making fun of Family Guy.
Mman: Because there were various parts where positives were said? Along with it taking an antaonistic stance against those who didn't want it to stay on (along with said antagonists happening to be Cartman and terrorists So Yeah).
Sara: I want to give a medal to whoever put the Barney example up there. It was a staple of my teen years and I can't believe I forgot about it!
Lord Seth: Deleted:
- Television Without Pity
Filby: Half of this list is made up of stuff that should be on Accentuate the Negative, unless I'm wrong in my assumption that this article is solely about groups that come together to hate a specific thing and not groups that hate things in general. If I am wrong and this article is about groups that hate things in general, why do we have this page? Come to think of it, what separates a Hatedom from an Unpleasable Fanbase and/or Snark Bait? This article just seems too hastily thought-out.
I'm also taking out scans_daily, because while there are quite a few people there who complain vocally about DC and Marvel, there's just as many if not more people squeeing over their favorite comics or celebrating the medium in general.
Nev- someone added scans_daily again, so I took it out. It's true, there's a lot of negativity. Comics these days are a very mixed bag. But I've been a member of the site long enough to see that most of the members genuinely enjoy comics, and like Filby said, there's plenty of squeeing and love. Whoever's putting this in? Did Not Do The Research
Freezer: Clipped the Monday Night Crew links from the Madden entry. The second comic wasn't making fun of Madden players, it was potshotting those who MUST HAVE THE NEWEST MADDEN and will wait overnight outside retailers and pay top dollar, for what is usually a tweaked version of the previous year's game - which most of the above will have already owned.
Rebochan: I'm putting Television Without Pity back. Whereas in the past they were actually recapping things they liked, these days most of the recaps are characterized by the recapper reiterating how much they actually hate the show, and much of the forums are people trying to top each other about how much they hate the show they're talking about. It may vary from forum to forum, it's a huge site, but its been my experience with the shows I watch that they've recapped. I thought it was pretty telling that they gave up recapping Doctor Who because they just couldn't snark it enough.
Aquillion: The lead seems unnecessarily negative. Hatedoms do not have to be bad things. Some works are, well, just flat-out bad, and there's nothing wrong with deriving humor from making fun of them or anything like that. For that matter, it's not like there's anything wrong with enjoying a good show or whatever by making fun of it. (Luckily, we don't need to decide which is which on this page, only that there are people who feel that way.) 'Hatedom' is not and shouldn't be seen as a slur, basically.
Freezair For A Limited Time: I think there's a big difference between Hatedom and Snark Bait. Your description seems more keyed to the latter. Just ribbing a piece of media, and enjoying doing so, does not make you a member of a Hatedom. A member of the Alice and Bob Show snark crew teases it and may occasionally MST it. A member of the Alice and Bob Show Hatedom trolls Alice and Bob messageboards, verbally attacks its fans, and goes out of their way to make sure everyone knows just how much they hate the Alice and Bob Show.
It's the difference between disliking a movie and insulting your mother-in-law for daring to like the same movie.
Aquillion: No, insulting your mother-in-law for daring to like the same movies, verbally attacking or trolling its fans, and all that is Fan Hater. A Hatedom can encompass Fan Haters, but it can also encompass people who enjoy hating on a show, which means they think it's Snark Bait. Not all people who see a show as Snark Bait actually like it — some of them think it's horrible, but still find the snark surrounding it funny. Of course, there's some subjectivity into where exactly people fall...
Freezair For A Limited Time: Fan Haters are a type of Hatedom. And there's still a difference between "thinking a show is amusingly stupid (and liking it anyway) and "thinking that a show is a horrible, horrible piece of trash that should be wiped from the face of the earth, possibly along with its creator.
Rebochan: Is it really a good idea to actually put a warning on the main page about Hatedoms on this site? That just seems like a way to stir up even more internet drama.
Komodin: I believe it's best that it should be removed. The Hatedoms on this site apparently don't know of the concept called "subtlety". Plus it would just up Flame Wars that this site don't need.
Rebochan: I made some edits to the 4Kids entry, but I'd rather pull it all together because it's so blatantly ignorant of why people hate 4Kids. There's a group of people on this site that seem bound and determined to paint 4Kids as some sort of unfairly maligned saints of anime, whilst they willfully ignore that 4Kids has actually earned their reputation for Macekre'd anime dubs and that they have had the amazingly inept foresight of actually insulting anime fans.
As for the anime boom, no, it was well in its upswing with or without 4Kids. Adult Swim and Toonami are easily much bigger factors in that - and note that while some 4Kids shows were aired, so were many shows with minimal edits. 4Kids pretty much just rode on getting lucky with two massive merchandising phenomenons, one of which they don't have anymore. The "angry fans" didn't make Yu Gi Oh popular, it was the target audience of children that loved trading cards and shows about trading cards. Because, lets be honest, that's all Yu Gi Oh really has going for it. All of their projects that didn't involve merchandising tie-ins were massive failures.
Rebochan: I went ahead and pulled what was left. Here's the entry.
- Two words, a number, and an intensive: 4Kids freakin' Entertainment. There are people who actually like the work for who they are, which are overwhelmingly outnumbered by those who consider them "awful, soulless demons" (actual quote) who get their gnarled, murderous hands on an anime with a large fandom, stab it several times with a butcher knife the size of the Eiffel Tower, mangle its bloody corpse until it's no longer recognizable, and release the resultant Macekre into the wild while rubbing their greedy, grubby hands together in anticipation of the endless amounts of cash that will soon pour in while sacrificing the respect of millions. There is absolutely no in-between.
- A couple of cases advocating 4Kids as a possibly-necessary evil: Yugioh The Abridged Series, and The Abridged Series genre as a whole would not have surfaced as it did if it weren't for the company's sometime badly comical editing practices. Another case would be Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, which not only got back into public perception, but was also actually handled well compared to 4Kids other properties. There may be a few other good examples(as well as some that do deserve the company getting major flak), but if you look close enough, you'll find that it's not all unashamed money-grubbing and baby-eating(that is thoroughly sanitized and garnished with fluffy pink dressings).
- Let's not forget Mew Mew Power, Magical Do Re Mi, and Shaman King, most of which flopped and flopped hard thanks to the horrible dubbing. Not to mention One Piece, botched so badly it was stripped of its license - mostly because on top of the horrible dub, it made no money. Then there's also the attitude of the executives showing up at anime conventions and making such illuminatingly friendly comments as "Kids don't read!" and "When we finish, they don't even know its from Japan anymore!" 4Kids has actively fed their Hatedom.
- A couple of cases advocating 4Kids as a possibly-necessary evil: Yugioh The Abridged Series, and The Abridged Series genre as a whole would not have surfaced as it did if it weren't for the company's sometime badly comical editing practices. Another case would be Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, which not only got back into public perception, but was also actually handled well compared to 4Kids other properties. There may be a few other good examples(as well as some that do deserve the company getting major flak), but if you look close enough, you'll find that it's not all unashamed money-grubbing and baby-eating(that is thoroughly sanitized and garnished with fluffy pink dressings).
Donomni: No, I pretty much fault them for a lot of junk. It's when people say everything is equally bad that I'd raise a stink. And if someone mocks TMNT even though it doesn't suck, well, that's this trope.
Rebochan: That 4Kids can occasionally get something right doesn't make legitimate criticism of them go away.
Unless you want to say that 4Kids does not have a hatedom; that entry should stay. It doesn't have anything positive to say about the company you hate so much.
Rebochan: I pulled the religion example because that was just asking for it. Yes, people get bent out of shape over people religious views and whether or not they even have any. Discussing it here is flamebait.
DarkSovereign: Deleting "For a good example, see Barack Obama and Republican Party." and "They didn't even wait 2 months before laying charges that he was destroying the country." because they are needlessly inflammatory.
Justice4243: Added a comment to the Michael Bay section as the first entry comes off a bit pro Bay. I'm not sure if this a better or worse idea than editing out the biased of the first comment outright...though given the paragraphs dedicated to other topics on the page, I'm likely over thinking the whole thing.
