This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
dotchan: Would Harry Mason's variations on "Have You Seen a Little Girl" be this or a Catchphrase? (It feels a bit too long to be a catchphrase...)
The Bad Wolf:Took out a bunch of entries that were just RunningGags or creepy character motifs or Spoon Speakers. Remember an arc word has to foreshadow but also not be obvious when originally used.
The Bad Wolf: there are still a lot of things on this page that look more like running gags or motifs as opposed to real arc words I'm going to go ahead and delete the following ones in the next couple of days unless anyone objects.
- All the anime ones, unless I'm missing something about Japanese culture these all just seem like running gags
- except Spiral, giant robo looks good, but correct me if im wrong isn't an OVA just a single direct to video movie, which would mean it really couldn't have an arc word.
- V.F.D from Series Of Unfortunate Events if the charicters know about it, it's not an arc word, it's an Important Clue
- The contributor is correct about don't panic, that is in fact just a running joke.
- Watchmen really don't have arc words, those are just visual motifs
- Films really can't have arc words because an arc word is suposed to puzzle you as you watch multiple episodes of something, in a film the arc would would be introduced and revealed in one sitting. So Moulin Rouge! is out. (note this doesn't apply to books, because most people don't read a book in one sitting.
Gus:Hopefully, this makes sense to Dr. Who fans because if it doesn't, I think it is clear miss.
Looney Toons: Yeah, a couple more examples might help, too.
Dark Sasami: It makes sense to Doctor Who fans, but I've never seen it done anywhere else. I think it's an example of something that does happen on occasion, in which a particular symbol (or phrase, in this case) keeps showing up in seemingly unrelated instances that a clever viewer can pick out. Usually they're more heavy-handed about it, and the characters will point it out; they didn't in Doctor Who. I think it's more the sort of thing you'd see in a well-done video game; I can't think of a television example.
Gus: Oh. Is this something like the lottery numbers in Lost, or the highlighted letters in city names in Alias? There being a puzzle that these are clues to?
Dark Sasami: I haven't seen either of those, but if the puzzle is actually something that can be solved, not exactly. If it's just something sort of odd that either turns out to be the Big Bad's signature or the key to defeating it, then yes.
Gus: Whether or not there is a solution is still at issue for the shows I cited. Pretty good chance, though, there is a puzzle. Anyway, I don't think it fits, and the Arc Words deal is not striking any other chords ... Ooh, wait. The fractal spiral that showed up everywhere in Threshold might an instance of the sort of thing — in this case, a recurring image that clues in the viewer that the Big Bad has been at work. // Later... It looks like Silent Hunter had a chance to clear it up and apssed, so we'll just Cut List it.
Ununnilium: I dunno, it makes sense to me. It's one of those dropped-hint things that you see all over. I'll take a look at it and see if I can spruce it up.
Red Shoe: It makes sense to me, but I'm not sure it's an actual trope yet, as opposed to "just something Doctor Who is doing." I have this feeling that there's a Buffy or Angel example, though, but I can't come up with out (Except maybe the rat/cheese symbolism, which, according to the Word of God, is actually just coincidental).
Bluetooth The Pirate: If I may interject, there's no good reason to cut a trope just because it isn't widespread yet. While I agree that the list is supposed to contain items we can expect a viewer to regognize, we also have a rule to not only include overused and cliche entries. So, if this is a baby trope, let it stand. After all, this is a writer's resource, and why not include something we'd like to see repeated.
Gus: Cool. I'll de-Cut List it, since it seems to have some support. I think it (the "Words") may be a specific instance of some kind of bread-crumb-sprinkling trope. I also think it goes on a list of Emerging Tropes, which may be what Silent Hunter had in mind with New Kids On The Block. //Later: ... And Looney Tunes hits another one out of the park.
Looney Toons: I did?
Gus: Didn't you? I thought you added the examples and the item about IMDB "repeated lines." Aanyway, the entry works, now.
Looney Toons: Well, yeah, I did. Didn't think of it as "hitting it out of the park", though...
Ununnilium: I don't think the Code Lyoko example fits, since it's immediately obvious what it means.
Brickie: I've not seen Van Wilder, so I can't really comment - but can you have "Arc Words" in a movie? I wonder if that's more a Running Gag.
Shinra: What about Videogame Arc Words? I remember seeing in the Final Fantasy VII manual, as well as in the actual game, a phrase seen in the Gold Saucer Battle Arena "The Brave do not Fear the Grave", which was inside a circle on the Arena floor. Another two examples might be the poem on the loading screen in Ace Combat 5, which is referring to the Razgriz Squadron.
Seth: Thats more of a catch phrase or a marketing slogan. Its not an arc word since it has no cryptic/symbolic meaning which unravels with the plot.
Inyssius: There are a whole bunch of these examples that don't seem to fit (Code Lyoko, Kingdom Hearts II, Spiral, "Save the cheerleader, save the world" from Heroes, "... the monologue before each episode" in Noir, and the number 47). Can anyone else corroborate?
HeartBurn Kid: I'm really not sure how the Heroes example doesn't fit; after all, it's often repeated by the characters, much of the first arc is devoted to trying to figure out who and what it means, etc.
Binaroid: As for Noir, the opening monologue seems to be appropriate-yet-vague Fauxlosophic Narration, right up until Chloe and Kirika begin reciting it word for word, as a sign that Kirika's amnesia is fading. In the end, the monologue ties in to the main Myth Arc about the Soldats and what they want from our protagonists.
Looney Toons: "Arc Words" has appeared in [i]Wired[/i] Magazine's "Jargon Watch" feature, in issue 15.04 (April 2007). The text of the tiny definition they give is evocative enough of our entry that I suspect it was at least consulted.
Ununnilium: Awesome!
Ununnilium: The number 47? Whaaaaaaaaaa? How is it different from 53, or 26, or 98? Also, cutting out:
- God's In His Heaven, All's Right With the World: the NERV motto from Neon Genesis Evangelion (itself a quotation from Robert Browning's Pippa Passes).
...as it doesn't really refer to anything; it's just... a motto.
Tabby: 47 is a J. J. Abrams thing. I don't know enough about it to be more specific than that.
Cort Jstr: 47 is most associated with Star Trek, I'd say. Wikipedia entry
Zeke: Yep, any Trekkie can tell you of the deep and mystical significance of 47. (J. J. Abrams? Pfft. Kids.) But as important as it is, it's not an Arc Word — more of a running joke — so Ununnilium was right to remove it.
Aerin Pegadrak: 47's a Pomona College thing. It started out as a statistics thesis in the '60s and sort of spiraled out of control; whenever a former Sagehen needs a random number for something, they'll usually pick 47. The Star Trek writer who started the thing on the series went to Pomona (I lived in the dorm that inspired the Borg my sophomore year), and while I don't think Abrams did, I think its prevalence in Alias comes from either a Star Trek homage or a Sagehen on his writing staff. There's a whole website about it. However, I agree that it doesn't really qualify as an arc word wherever it appears, since the number is very rarely plot significant. Just thought I'd explain.
Ununnilium: Taking it out, then:
- Although it is rarely used as an arc word proper, an honourable mention has to go to the number 47, which recurs in far too many series to list — but is best known and associated with Star Trek in all its forms.
The Bad Wolf: I don't think people are really getting this Arc Word concept. An Arc Word is a recurring like or symbol that foreshadows things to come and is not just a recurring joke or reference. A catch phrase is not going to be one. Additionally a character isn't going to notice the Arc Word at least for a while as the Arc Word is for the viewer not the character. Fooly Cooly from FLCL is not one barring any twists its just an Unusual Euphemism, The blood drop and smiley face in watch men isn't one either because it doesn't "pay off" and turn into repeated foreshadowing. Also "Save the cheerleader, save the world" isn't one either its just a cryptic prophesy that the characters mentioned to each other a lot. It can some times be tricky to tell whether a phrase is going to end up being an Arc Word or not, from Fire Fly "two by two hands of blue" did end up being one but the blue sun corp. may or may not be one as the show was canceled before it could pay off.
Travis Wells: Merged the Doctor Who entries, seemed a bit excessive to have three entries for one show.
Ununnilium: Taking out:
- Another graphical example: A bulls-eye-like symbol appears on anything related to Lyoko, and XANA by extension. Since XANA is the dominant force in Lyoko, the symbol is often called "the Eye of XANA."
...because its meaning seems straightforward.
Also, are the Babylon 5 Prisoner references anything but references? Is the thing from National Lampoon's Van Wilder anything but a running gag? Can there really be Arc Words in a short story?
Also also, shouldn't "All Along The Watchtower" from the main entry be despoilered, since it's obviously said repeatedly before The Reveal?
The Bad Wolf: no it shouldn't, its not until The Reveal that you actually realize what song it is. Before that you just hear distorted music and lyrics from the song are subtly placed into dialog.
Twin Bird: I've un-spolered "Mr. Saxon" now that it's come to fruition on Scifi. Also, I'm a little nervous about the Haruhi entry, but I'm putting it in because while it's pretty clear from the start that all these things are somehow related to each other and Haruhi, it's not really made clear how until the second-to-last episode.
Looney Toons: After some thought I've removed
- The prophecy relating to Harry Potter and Voldemort, specifically the last line, "Neither can live while the other survives."
because the prophecy shows up rather late — practically at the beginning of the sixth book of seven — and does not make numerous mysterious and confusing appearances in the remaining two books.
Prfnoff: Revised the example from The Country of the Blind, in part to remove the words "Wrong. I believe it's William Blake." Lee M, your conjecture was incorrect, and how was the example 'wrong'?
Rothul: Removed surpurfluous Homestar Runner DNA Evidence example.
Blork: Regarding the Torchwood example. Was is ever stated that the monster from the final episode of Season One was the "something in the darkness"? It was sealed beneath the Rift not in the afterlife, noone in the episode draws a connection to the Arc Words and the clues suggest that the thing in the darkness was trying to get Jack specifically which means that the monster's weakness is rather stupid if they're the same thing it overloaded itself and was killed when it tried to drain Jack's Life-Force. It seems to me that a far more likely explanation would be in Season 2 when they use the second glove to resurrect Owen and the spirit of Death comes back with him.
Looney Toons: Natter nukage:
- I diagree with the [[spoildr: The Shadow Proclamatian]] as it is a goup. Though if it is a person as a speculated aboce, it could be.
Looney Toons: Gitman, I deleted your
- {{Firefly:}} "Two by two, hands of blue"
because there's already an entry for Firefly (correctly marked up to boot) that cites the quote.
Looney Toons: Snipped
- Supposedly, in 1791 James Daly made a bet that he could invent a word within 24 hours. The next morning, the word "quiz" — which had no meaning then — was scribbled in various places. Puzzled onlookers believed they were being tested, and thus infused the nonsense word with meaning, and Mr. Daly with extra money.
- If that is true, then that is awesome
- Sorry to burst your bubble, but The Other Wiki would like a word with you about the authenticity of your story.
- Sorry to burst your bubble, but The Other Wiki would like a word with you
- If that is true, then that is awesome
because, as I said in my edit reason, unless Daly were hinting at the overall plot of Life in General, that ain't an arc word. Regardless of whether the story is true.
Is "Come with me if you want to live." from the Terminator series an example, or more of a catchphrase, ala "I'll be/I'm back"?
DoKnowButchie: Deleted:
Those are clearly catch phrases, not Arc Words—what exactly would their plot significance be? Also removed the upcoming bit from the Heroes example.
Because, um, Isn't that how all Arc Words come about? Unless whoever wrote it meant to say they didn't succeed, he or she isn't really saying anything.
