This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Filby: I've never seen or played any of the derivative works based on ROTTK besides the MTG example, so if anyone could flesh that section out a little more I'd much appreciate it.
SenatorJ: It didn't seem right to put this under Talking the Monster to Death, but Sun Ce kills a dude by shouting at him. We've got to have a trope for that.
- Grazzt: Zhang Fei is put under the Make Me Wanna Shout trope, so I guess we can put Sun Ce there until a better trope is made.
Vampire Buddha: Removed some natter:
natter
- This troper considers the most visible one to be Zhang Liao talking Guan Yu into surrender specifically by questioning his idea of loyalty. However, there's plenty of conflicts between doing the "morally upstanding" thing and serving the greater good in the long run, such as Liu Bei (superego) and Zhuge Liang (ego)'s relationship. In fact, they actually invert their usual characterizations on Liu Bei's deathbed when Liu Bei, who'd been riding a hereditary claim to power, tells Zhuge Liang to ignore that with his son Liu Shan and just take the throne for himself if need be, and it's Zhuge Liang who shoots that down.
- I'd betcha Hua Tuo could pull it off. For a guy who was so keen to attempt brain surgery on Cao Cao, this should be a piece of cake.
- And always remember: Bros before Hos.
- But you're not supposed to include your children in that slogan like Liu Bei explicitly does!
- Like you said, Values Dissonance.
- Liu Bei was a warlord. We would have Values Dissonance with him whatever happened.
- Liu Bei was traditionally depicted with long arms; conceptually, it wouldn't have been much of a drop for Liu Chan. This was more likely a well-calculated move by Liu Bei to win the loyalty of Zhao Yun.
- Unless you're taking Chapter 1's description literally, I'd still be a little worried about dropping the kids from any height, regardless of arm length. (And if you are taking it literally, Liu Bei, the man whose "ears were long, the lobes touching his shoulders", whose "hands hung down below his knees", and whose eyes were so "big and prominent" that he could "see backward past his ears", was definitely not Chinese. Or Human, for that matter.)
- Single-handedly subverted by how hard Lu Bu falls for Diao Chan. (Specifically, the Phoenix Pavilion scene is made of sheer, unadulterated sap.)
- Ironically, mildly subverted by Zhuge Liang in the episode where during the impending succession dispute before Liu Biao's death, Zhuge Liang didn't want to get involved in the "family affair," so behind his back Liu Bei ended up picking him (without telling him why) to see one of Liu Biao's sons. When Zhuge Liang tried to bow out, the son managed to lure him upstairs... then had the stairs taken away. OWNED.
- Possibly not even then. If he hadn't given Liu Qi the advice he did, they may have lost Jiang Xia as well when Liu Cong surrendered to Cao Cao. Keeping Liu Qi alive and on their side payed off in the long run, he just needed an excuse to allow him to meddle in a family affair.
- The Battle of Chi Bi was Zhou Yu's and Wu's Crowning Moment Of Awesome in history, but Zhuge Liang stole it in the novel - and made it even better.
- Lampshaded in BB Senshi Sangokuden, where the characters' "style names" are actually taken from whichever Gundam mecha they were based on.
- And, of course, Dynasty Warriors turns him into the The Ditz.
- Subverted at times by Liu Bei's conduct, as seen in various examples here.
- In fairness though Wu comes off as pretty badass, even cool, during Sun Ce's rise and the founding of Wu; it's only when they start conflicting with Liu Bei that their negatives start to show.
- Arguably the whole "personal duels" thing, although it's subverted more than once when there are some ganging-ups — the most famous of all being when Liu Bei, Guan Yu, and Zhang Fei all fight Lu Bu at the same time, and he holds his own. Then there's the time that Gan Ning issues a challenge during a naval battle, the enemy commander designates a "champion"... and as the champion's boat approaches, Gan Ning just shoots and kills him.
- Liu Bei's modus operandi... some of the time. Other times...
- Hey, it helps to be a Villain with Good Publicity, you know...
- Look on the bright side: at least she couldn't have been Stuffed into the Fridge.
- Could be because when Yuan Shu got it from Sun Ce, he decided to declare himself Emperor... only to be opposed by Cao Cao, Liu Bei, Sun Ce, and Lu Bu.
- And that's a Dynasty Warriors stage I'd love to see.
- It's easier when you know Chinese: for example, the pronunciation of the "Lu" in "Lu Bu" and "Lu Meng" is different from the "Lu" in "Lu Xun". (It's technically "Lü Bu".) Having said that, it's worse when everyone shares common surnames (you have Zhang Fei and his sons from Shu, Zhang Liao and Zhang He from Wei - not related to each other - and the Zhang brothers from the Yellow Turbans) and there's at least one duplicate name: Zhang Bao (either Zhang Fei's son, or Zhang Jiao's brother from the Yellow Turbans).
- Many of them are simply different Chinese characters that have the same pinyin.
- Surprisingly averted in the case of Xiahou Dun's anticlimactic, barely-mentioned, single-sentence demise, and in Lu Bu's case as his demise is not cool. Cao Cao and Liu Bei's deaths are old and in bed, but they get a longer and more notable treatment, as their passings matter more.
- Well, at least Cao Cao gets crazy Taoists, hallucinations and an offer for brain surgery.
- ...but one moment of awesome doth not a Bastard make. (He probably pulled it off IRL, but Luo Guanzhong was heavily pro-Shu in his portrayal, which meant Villain and Idiot Balls for everyone else.)
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