Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Daibhid C: I've already asked this on the Nice to the Waiter page, but what does the comparison between football and asassination have to do with good characters treating the help with respect? (The fact both Ridcully and Lord V take Glenda's comments seriously might be a better example.) And Prince Charming? There aren't any princes in it at all. (Edit: Having checked the UA example in the Prince Charming entry, I've expanded that a bit.)
  • Red Wren: I'd say (after checking the example on the Nice to the Waiter page) the original troper probably meant that assassins are nice to the help, as defined as those who have less. When Glenda says that the assassins kill people just as much as the street gangs, the difference given is that street gangs will attack anyone, whereas assassins tend to avoid people who are lower in the social structure—waiters, cooks, the servants. I think that was mainly misunderstanding the trope based upon title, or possibly the conversation. (Only contracts are picked up on rich people because only rich people are worth the money to kill—it's not characterization.) I'm going to change them to the above suggestions.

Red Wren: I feel like there's a Bilingual Bonus here...
Nutt: " Herr Frugal said in Das Nichts des Wissens, "Ich kann mich nicht genau erinnern, aber es war so etwas wie eine Vanillehaltige süsse Nachspeisenbeigabe," although I believe he was on some medication at the time."

Anaheyla: I doubt this is entirely accurate, but for what it's worth:

"I cannot remember exactly, but it was something akin to a vanilla containing sweet after food addition."

Goggle Fox: Just adding a note to make sure this doesn't get brought up again . . . By all appearances, the description of Nutt's claws is such that he has nothing to do with a certain clawed comic book character. Any indications to the contrary appear to be figments of someone's imagination. He's an orc, not a scrapper. Thank you.

Red Wren: Removed
  • There's also the bit where Glenda and Juliet are travelling home, and Glenda tells Juliet it would be good if she tried to sound less "common", but "That doesn't mean you have to sound like-" and the ticket inspector interrupts: "My fare, lady?".
From Stealth Pun, because in order to be a stealth pun, the punchline must be missing, and "My fare, lady?" is the punchline.

Johnny E: As far as I'm aware, football's never been mentioned before, at least as a major part of Ankh-Morpork life, and yet as of this book everyone working-class has always been fanatical about it. Do we ahave a trope that covers that? It's not quite a Retcon, but it seems similar.

20thcenturyvole: As a matter of fact, Jingo features it quite heavily: Carrot is seen using it to make rival youth gangs play (relatively) nicely together, and later, when Vimes has arrested both armies for behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace, he induces said armies to play a game that very much resembles the violent scrum of Unseen Academicals, while blissfully referring to the football as "a very pacifying object". On a continuity-related note, Carrot's ball appears to be the inflatable type - we never hear it go 'gloing', but it still seems closer to Nutt's leather bladder thing than the hunk of wood covered in cloth scraps.

20thcenturyvole: I'd really like to debate the Character Derailment of Vetinari and Ridcully, as well as this line:

... But I wasn't sure just deleting the entries was the polite way to go about it. For one thing, Vetinari and Ridcully seem perfectly in character to me - Ridcully is showing a lot less Obfuscating Stupidity, but is otherwise his keen-sportsman, locomotive-brained self, even displaying the philosophical side he betrayed in Lords and Ladies. Vetinari seems exactly as he has been up to the present, especially taking into account the Moist Von Lipwig books. As for Uberwald psychologists having Germanic accents, Uberwaldian accents (albeit cod-Slavic until now) have always been shown to use any variation of 've' and 'ze', so conflating any European accent that includes similar adherence to the Rule of Funny is not much of a stretch - especially when you compare that mishmash with Genua, which is a Fantasy Counterpart Culture for, simultaneously, Louisiana, Italy, and Disneyland.

Johnny E: Vetinari has kept up a The Unfunny facade for all the books I can think of, and in this one he seems to have dropped his guard an awful lot. Having thought about it though, this could be explained by this being possibly the first time we've seen him talking with an actual friend, of sorts - although she seems pretty shocked by his behaviour herself. Maybe he really was drunk?

Artemis92: Does anybody know when this will be out in America?

Anaheyla: October 8, 2009