I decided to compromise on the Lord of Dark and labeled the Past Lord of Dark as "Past Lord of Dark" as decided, while labelling the "Fake Lord of Dark" as such to avoid confusion. Is this acceptable?
.....
I feel like the Shadow Archetype thing in various characters can be overbloated. It's mostly on those from this page too. But on the other hand, it still serves as a counterpoint to how things go wrong in the Middle Ages chapter so Oersted snaps.
Should we:
- Continue as is?
- Move the whole thing to the Analysis subpage?
- Cull them completely?
I say move it to the analysis page, there's a lot of bloat but it is still good writing.
I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
When I discuss it in ATT, they say it better fits the Fridge page since Undertale did the same. So... Fridge page, then?
Team Rocket Boss.
So the Odie Olbright page lists cruel mercy with the example being given is thus: He's spared from death by Masaru. However, he will live the rest of his life with the knowledge that his life philosophy of 'Strength is the only thing that matters, you can kill your weaker opponents' is utterly knocked down by Masaru who is stronger but without resorting to killing others, a rather cruel humiliation and a reminder that his way of life about 'The Strongest' is no longer the prevailing one.
But like there's nothing like that in the actual story. Hell, Masuru outright tells Odie " I WILL END YOU! " Masuru doesn't make it a point to spare Odie and it's vague if he died or not.
This seems like an interpretation of Odie's unofficial translated speech where he's in shock at how Masuru beat him.
Edited by RedHunter543 I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult. Hide / Show Replies
I should point out that in the original Japanese, Masaru doesn't express any intent to kill Odie. He uses the phrase "ぶっ潰す," which roughly translates to "I'll crush you!"
Given the context in which he says it, it's a declaration that he will use all he learned from the other fighters to defeat Odie. That's basically it.
Edited by dragonfire5000
Either way, I think the trope needs to have it be a point that Odie Olbright was explicitly spared by Masuru to prove his philosophy wrong to be counted as cruel mercy.
Or it could be something like Not Worth Killing.
There's nothing, Odie just gives a speech about how Masuru will keep fighting to stay the best.
I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
Seems to be the case of Not Worth Killing. Also if he killed Odie he would be as bad as him. So yeah.
I mean, Odie came at him, and Masuru would be killing him in self defense if Odie did indeed die.
It's still vague as to if he died or not, and there's no point made that Masuru spared him out of Cruel Mercy or anything, (This seems to be another theory put into the pages.) so I guess uncertain doom is the appropriate trope.
Edited by RedHunter543 I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
He just stops moving after he gives his speech to Masuru, which can be seen as him fainting or dying. The red aura that's a calling card to Odio leaves his body implying he is dead, but it's still vague enough that I think uncertain doom is the correct trope.
EDIT: Oh right, so in Odie's speech in the remake, he has a line in final speech that Masuru stands in judgement with bloodied hands, and will again bloody them.
I missed this line, yeah he's def dead.
https://youtu.be/4UcOKuYllOc?t=2215
Here's a link to the speech. I'll let the rest see if it does fit.
Edited by RedHunter543 I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
That bit about bloody hands isn't in the original Japanese script, so I don't think that's a good indication of what happened.
Hah... i-it all starts now. The path to becoming the true strongest. People like me will keep appearing, one after the other. People who won't hesitate to lay down their lives to become the strongest... people like me... and like you. Will you... be able to... keep your humanity? I wonder..."
So what are the opinions of the thread? The bit about " People who won't hesitate to lay down their lives to become the strongest... people like me" implies that Odie is dying.
So any thoughts on the speech?
Edited by RedHunter543 I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
Was going to say that I didn't see this discussion was going on when I added the Uncertain Doom entry, so I apologize if that caused collusion.
Yeah don't worry about it. We're still discussing the trope but no one else seems to be talking about it.
I say we put that uncertain doom bit back with a bit of rewriting.
I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
The Uncertain Doom entry should probably be reworded a little, particularly "The remake gives more evidence that he's dead as Odio's signature dark aura dissipates from his body afterwards" as the dark aura dissipating isn't actually evidence that he died; every Odio incarnation has the red aura dissipate (save for OD-10 outside of their boss battle), and we have at least one incarnation that didn't end up dying.
It can probably be reworded into something like:
You mean O.Dio right? Well technically the person formed from the ghosts is O.Dio, not the horse, and he basically dies after his fight with Sundown and Mad Dog, the horse just seems to be a vessel for the ghosts like the liquified humans or statue for Odeo.
I think the red aura should stay as it is foreshadowing for the existence of Odio, but we should also bring up the whole "lay down your life line" since Odie brings up in the context of people wiling to fight to the death and he does say he himself is one of those persons in JP.
Edited by RedHunter543 I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
It should be pointed out that just because Odie is willing to fight to the death does NOT mean that Masaru ended up killing him. All he's saying is that it's possible Masaru will fight someone that will push him to break the no-killing rule; it doesn't mean that he himself has croaked by the end of the chapter.
We should also avoid saying what the red aura leaving a boss means when nothing in the game explicitly confirms what it means. Speculative Troping says this:
But that's ALL it implies. Just because a work used one trope doesn't mean it used similar tropes. Without any other context, tropers can't just leap to other conclusions. This doesn't automatically make them an Official Couple. It doesn't mean one or more of the characters have redeemed past deeds. Heck, it doesn't even mean they ENJOYED it. The only information we can convey from that basic scene is that something naughty may have happened, but it's still only implied.
I really feel all the Neo Nazi stuff under Odie's entry either needs to be cut completely or heavily culled. Nothing in the game implies he's a Nazi whatsoever, he just looks like a mix between Sagat and Akuma in a story referencing fighting games. Him being a bald murderer does not equate to him being a skinhead.
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Yes I agree with this. I had been debating about this and you confirmed what I thought about them.
Just scrap it.
And Odie Olbright did murder Max Morgan, a German white blond man.
With all this said, I think some of it should be kept in at least, maybe just trim down the shout out part or move it to the trivia page.
But the stuff claiming that he's objectively a skinhead like how if he'll beat Masuru, he'll bring power to supremacist groups, needs to be cut.
I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
> With all this said, I think some of it should be kept in at least, maybe just trim down the shout out part or move it to the trivia page.
I think to the WMG page it goes.
Seems that this whole skinhead theory started out in the WMG, and then someone put it in the trope page as fact.
I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
Team Rocket Boss.
So we need to discuss the time loop theory. There's not enough textual evidence to support it in-game to have tropes referencing it on the page.
I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
Okay, is it just me, or does "Haunted"
by Disturbed fit Odio insanely well? I've been listening to it on repeat while assigning it to Odiodama
in my Progress & Regress Pokémon project
(with Odiodama itself being partially based on Odio, since I was reading the Live A Live pages here while naming it, despite it moreso just being the representation of ghost tropes and paranormal woo (hatred tropes were already taken by another Regress Pokémon
)), and I've come to realize that even though I initially selected "Haunted" on the basis of "haunted = ghosts, duh", it's just really well-suited for describing Odio's character, motivation, and backstory.
Anyways, I've started entertaining the idea of making an Odio AMV of "Haunted" with scenes from Live A Live and Octopath Traveler: Champions of the Continent. Anyone interested in helping me gather footage or stuff like that?