Discussion History Main / CommonMarySueTraits

It seems like nowadays people are getting GenreSavvy and [[PlayingWithATrope playing with various aspects of]] CommonMarySueTraits in ways that [[DeconstructedTrope deconstruct]] the overall course of them. This kind of makes the characters who would otherwise be {{Mary Sue}}s more realistic and filled out.
* GoodFlawsBadFlaws: [[{{Determinator}} Stubbornness]] [[HoistByHisOwnPetard can backfire]] if it becomes [[HonorBeforeReason unreasonable]], \\\'\\\'actual\\\'\\\' [[CuteClumsyGirl clumsiness]] applies a heavy dose of SlapstickKnowsNoGender (if they\\\'re constantly having their clothes snag and falling down the stairs), and [[BerserkButton a bad temper]] is a flaw if it\\\'s, well, [[HairTriggerTemper an actual bad temper]], {{trigger}}ed at the wrong time to the wrong person. It isn\\\'t necessarily \\\"X flaw is not an actual flaw and therefore doesn\\\'t count\\\", it\\\'s all how it\\\'s played. Note that a character can still be a CuteClumsyGirl (or [[GenderInvertedTrope Cute Clumsy]] \\\'\\\'[[GenderInvertedTrope Guy]]\\\'\\\') even if {{slapstick}} and {{buttmonkey}} status apply, since it serves to make them [[TheWoobie sympathetic]] and [[{{Adorkable}} endearing]] but simultaneously [[TheChewToy wildly entertaining]].
** On a similar note, if a character has a HairTriggerTemper or is [[{{Determinator}} stubborn]], well, [[FridgeLogic think about that for a moment]]. Calling out the PointyHairedBoss or CorruptCorporateExecutive gets them fired. [[NobodyCallsMeChicken Not running away]] when they absolutely \\\'\\\'should\\\'\\\' gets them [[CurbStompBattle killed in seconds]]. You see where this is going?
** [[RunningGag And another thing]]; not everyone is going to like your character, so as a bit of a nod to the audience, give the character someone (or some\\\'\\\'thing\\\'\\\') who can serve as a walking TakeThatScrappy for those who dislike the character. Note that the \\\"someone\\\" shouldn\\\'t be a StrawLoser with no legitimate reason to hate your character; if they have \\\'\\\'actual\\\'\\\' flaws with real consequences, maybe that\\\'s this person\\\'s pet peeve. This other character could serve as TheRival (only said rival is the one who usually \\\"wins\\\"), or act as a {{foil}}.

This just popped into my head; Under Fire Nation \\\"honor\\\", which states that \\\"a man does not live under the same sky as his father\\\'s murderer, nor a woman her mother\\\'s\\\", doesn\\\'t that mean that if you pursue a vendetta you have to kill your target\\\'s \\\'\\\'children?\\\'\\\' Or be prepared to have them come after you?

Also, does it just stop there? If you kill someone\\\'s lover or sibling for revenge, are they supposed to just \\\'\\\'take\\\'\\\' it? Or can they pursue vendettas in turn? It sounds like a vendetta is actually more like third world \\\'\\\'ethnic cleansing\\\'\\\' - someone wrongs you, so you go in and kill them, along with everyone who shares blood or loyalty with them. Miss even \\\'\\\'one\\\'\\\', and they\\\'ll attempt to do the same to you once your guard drops and they\\\'ve gotten some training or advantage.

A \\\'\\\'constant\\\'\\\' state of fear and death. In the old Fire Nation, you could be killed at any time for something any of your family did, simply because they know you\\\'d fight for them. All that keeps you alive is a lord strong enough to kill vendetta-seekers first, hopefully one who won\\\'t sacrifice you in pursuit of his \\\'\\\'own\\\'\\\' vendettas. It makes me wonder why anyone would want to associate with Fire Nationals in any way, shape or form. Hell yes, people would joke about, \\\"The hurricane getting the rest of them.\\\"

Maybe that was Fire Lord Zouge\\\'s original plan when he became Fire Lord - LIHOP or MIHOP the murder of Kiyoshi\\\'s son(perhaps with Koh whispering in his ear), then as a \\\"loyal\\\" Fire Sage, suggest the creation of the Fire Lord. Then \\\'\\\'exterminate every clan that ever wronged his.\\\'\\\'

Only afterward, he was stuck with control over a hundred or so \\\'\\\'other\\\'\\\' clans that had their \\\'\\\'own\\\'\\\' vendettas to carry out. Clans that he was bound by \\\"loyalty\\\" to tend to.

The tropes I\\\'m proposing are CycleOfRevenge and BeCarefulWhatYouWishFor.

This just popped into my head; Under Fire Nation \\\"honor\\\", which states that \\\"a man does not live under the same sky as his father\\\'s murderer, nor a woman her mother\\\'s\\\", doesn\\\'t that mean that if you pursue a vendetta you have to kill your target\\\'s \\\'\\\'children?\\\'\\\' Or be prepared to have them come after you?

Also, does it just stop there? If you kill someone\\\'s lover or sibling for revenge, are they supposed to just \\\'\\\'take\\\'\\\' it? Or can they pursue vendettas in turn? It sounds like a vendetta is actually more like third world \\\'\\\'ethnic cleansing\\\'\\\' - someone wrongs you, so you go in and kill them, along with everyone who shares blood or loyalty with them. Miss even \\\'\\\'one\\\'\\\', and they\\\'ll attempt to do the same to you once your guard drops and they\\\'ve gotten some training or advantage.

A \\\'\\\'constant\\\'\\\' state of fear and death. In the old Fire Nation, you could be killed at any time for something one of your any of your family did, simply because they know you\\\'d fight for them. All that keeps you alive is a lord strong enough to kill vendetta-seekers first, hopefully one who won\\\'t sacrifice you in pursuit of his \\\'\\\'own\\\'\\\' vendettas. It makes me wonder why anyone would want to associate with Fire Nationals in any way, shape or form. Hell yes, people would joke about, \\\"The hurricane getting the rest of them.\\\"

Maybe that was Fire Lord Zouge\\\'s original plan when he became Fire Lord - LIHOP or MIHOP the murder of Kiyoshi\\\'s son(perhaps with Koh whispering in his ear), then as a \\\"loyal\\\" Fire Sage, suggest the creation of the Fire Lord. Then \\\'\\\'exterminate every clan that ever wronged his.\\\'\\\'

Only afterward, he was stuck with control over a hundred or so \\\'\\\'other\\\'\\\' clans that had their \\\'\\\'own\\\'\\\' vendettas to carry out. Clans that he was bound by \\\"loyalty\\\" to tend to.

The tropes I\\\'m proposing are CycleOfRevenge and BeCarefulWhatYouWishFor.

This just popped into my head; Under Fire Nation \\\"honor\\\", which states that \\\"a man does not live under the same sky as his father\\\'s murderer, nor a woman her mother\\\'s\\\", doesn\\\'t that mean that if you pursue a vendetta you have to kill your target\\\'s \\\'\\\'children?\\\'\\\' Or be prepared to have them come after you?

Also, does it just stop there? If you kill someone\\\'s lover or sibling for revenge, are they supposed to just \\\'\\\'take\\\'\\\' it? Or can they pursue vendettas in turn? It sounds like a vendetta is actually more like third world \\\'\\\'ethnic cleansing\\\'\\\' - someone wrongs you, so you go in and kill them, along with everyone who shares blood or loyalty with them. Miss even \\\'\\\'one\\\'\\\', and they\\\'ll attempt to do the same to you once your guard drops and they\\\'ve gotten some training or advantage.

A \\\'\\\'constant\\\'\\\' state of fear and death. In the old Fire Nation, you could be killed at any time for something one of your any of your family did, simply because they know you\\\'d fight for them. All that keeps you alive is a lord strong enough to kill vendetta-seekers first, hopefully one who won\\\'t sacrifice you in pursuit of his \\\'\\\'own\\\'\\\' vendettas. It makes me wonder why anyone would want to associate with Fire Nationals in any way, shape or form. Hell yes, people would joke about, \\\"The hurricane getting the rest of them.\\\"

Maybe that was Fire Lord Zouge\\\'s original plan when he became Fire Lord - LIHOP or MIHOP the murder of Kiyoshi\\\'s son(perhaps with Koh whispering in his ear), then as a \\\"loyal\\\" Fire Sage, suggest the creation of the Fire Lord. Then \\\'\\\'exterminate every clan that ever wronged his.\\\'\\\'

Only afterward, he was stuck with control over a hundred or so \\\'\\\'other\\\'\\\' clans that had their \\\'\\\'own\\\'\\\' vendettas to carry out.

The tropes I\\\'m proposing are CycleOfRevenge and BeCarefulWhatYouWishFor.

This just popped into my head; Under Fire Nation \\\"honor\\\", which states that \\\"a man does not live under the same sky as his father\\\'s murderer, nor a woman her mother\\\'s\\\", doesn\\\'t that mean that if you pursue a vendetta you have to kill your target\\\'s \\\'\\\'children?\\\'\\\'

Also, does it just stop there? If you kill someone\\\'s lover or sibling for revenge, are they supposed to just \\\'\\\'take\\\'\\\' it? Or can they pursue vendettas in turn? It sounds like a vendetta is actually more like third world \\\'\\\'ethnic cleansing\\\'\\\' - someone wrongs you, so you go in and kill them, along with everyone who shares blood or loyalty with them. Miss even \\\'\\\'one\\\'\\\', and they\\\'ll attempt to do the same to you once your guard drops and they\\\'ve gotten some training or advantage.

A \\\'\\\'constant\\\'\\\' state of fear and death. In the old Fire Nation, you could be killed at any time for something one of your any of your family did, simply because they know you\\\'d fight for them. All that keeps you alive is a lord strong enough to kill vendetta-seekers first, hopefully one who won\\\'t sacrifice you in pursuit of his \\\'\\\'own\\\'\\\' vendettas. It makes me wonder why anyone would want to associate with Fire Nationals in any way, shape or form. Hell yes, people would joke about, \\\"The hurricane getting the rest of them.\\\"

Maybe that was Fire Lord Zouge\\\'s original plan when he became Fire Lord - LIHOP or MIHOP the murder of Kiyoshi\\\'s son(perhaps with Koh whispering in his ear), then as a \\\"loyal\\\" Fire Sage, suggest the creation of the Fire Lord. Then \\\'\\\'exterminate every clan that ever wronged his.\\\'\\\'

Only afterward, he was stuck with control over a hundred or so \\\'\\\'other\\\'\\\' clans that had their \\\'\\\'own\\\'\\\' vendettas to carry out.

The tropes I\\\'m proposing are CycleOfRevenge and BeCarefulWhatYouWishFor.

This just popped into my head; Under Fire Nation \\\"honor\\\", which stated that \\\"a man does not live under the same sky as his father\\\'s murderer, nor a woman her mother\\\'s\\\", doesn\\\'t that mean that if you pursue a vendetta you have to kill your target\\\'s \\\'\\\'children?\\\'\\\'

Also, does it just stop there? If you kill someone\\\'s lover or sibling for revenge, are they supposed to just \\\'\\\'take\\\'\\\' it? Or can they pursue vendettas in turn? It sounds like a vendetta is actually more like third world \\\'\\\'ethnic cleansing\\\'\\\' - someone wrongs you, so you go in and kill them, along with everyone who shares blood or loyalty with them. Miss even \\\'\\\'one\\\'\\\', and they\\\'ll attempt to do the same to you once your guard drops and they\\\'ve gotten some training or advantage.

A \\\'\\\'constant\\\'\\\' state of fear and death. In the old Fire Nation, you could be killed at any time for something one of your any of your family did, simply because they know you\\\'d fight for them. All that keeps you alive is a lord strong enough to kill vendetta-seekers first, hopefully one who won\\\'t sacrifice you in pursuit of his \\\'\\\'own\\\'\\\' vendettas. It makes me wonder why anyone would want to associate with Fire Nationals in any way, shape or form. Hell yes, people would joke about, \\\"The hurricane getting the rest of them.\\\"

Maybe that was Fire Lord Zouge\\\'s original plan when he became Fire Lord - LIHOP or MIHOP the murder of Kiyoshi\\\'s son(perhaps with Koh whispering in his ear), then as a \\\"loyal\\\" Fire Sage, suggest the creation of the Fire Lord. Then \\\'\\\'exterminate every clan that ever wronged his.\\\'\\\'

Only afterward, he was stuck with control over a hundred or so \\\'\\\'other\\\'\\\' clans that had their \\\'\\\'own\\\'\\\' vendettas to carry out.

The tropes I\\\'m proposing are CycleOfRevenge and BeCarefulWhatYouWishFor.

This just popped into my head; Under Fire Nation \\\"honor\\\", which stated that \\\"a man does not live under the same sky as his father\\\'s murderer, nor a woman her mother\\\'s\\\", doesn\\\'t that mean that if you pursue a vendetta you have to kill your target\\\'s \\\'\\\'children?\\\'\\\'

Also, does it just stop there? If you kill someone\\\'s lover or sibling for revenge, are they supposed to just \\\'\\\'take\\\'\\\' it? Or can they pursue vendettas in turn? It sounds like a vendetta is actually more like third world \\\'\\\'ethnic cleansing\\\'\\\' - someone wrongs you, so you go in and kill them, along with everyone who shares blood or loyalty with them. Miss even \\\'\\\'one\\\'\\\', and they\\\'ll attempt to do the same to you once your guard drops and they\\\'ve gotten some training or advantage.

A \\\'\\\'constant\\\'\\\' state of fear and death. In the old Fire Nation, you could be killed at any time for something one of your any of your family did, simply because they know you\\\'d fight for them. All that keeps you alive is a lord strong enough to kill vendetta-seekers first, hopefully one who won\\\'t sacrifice you in pursuit of his \\\'\\\'own\\\'\\\' vendettas. It makes me wonder why anyone would want to associate with Fire Nationals in any way, shape or form. Hell yes, people would joke about, \\\"The hurricane getting the rest of them.\\\"

Maybe that was Fire Lord Zouge\\\'s original plan when he became Fire Lord - LIHOP or MIHOP the murder of Kiyoshi\\\'s son(perhaps with Koh whispering in his ear), then as a \\\"loyal\\\" Fire Sage, suggest the creation of the Fire Lord. Then \\\'\\\'exterminate every clan that ever wronged his.\\\'\\\'

Only afterward, he was stuck with control over a hundred or so \\\'\\\'other\\\'\\\' clans that had their \\\'\\\'own\\\'\\\' vendettas to carry out.

The tropes I\\\'m proposing are Cycle of Revenge and BeCarefulWhatYouWishFor.

This just popped into my head; Under Fire Nation \\\"honor\\\", which stated that \\\"a man does not live under the same sky as his father\\\'s murderer, nor a woman her mother\\\'s\\\", doesn\\\'t that mean that if you pursue a vendetta you have to kill your target\\\'s \\\'\\\'children?\\\'\\\'

Also, does it just stop there? If you kill someone\\\'s lover or sibling for revenge, are they supposed to just \\\'\\\'take\\\'\\\' it? Or can they pursue vendettas in turn? It sounds like a vendetta is actually more like third world \\\'\\\'ethnic cleansing\\\'\\\' - someone wrongs you, so you go in and kill them, along with everyone who shares blood or loyalty with them. Miss even \\\'\\\'one\\\'\\\', and they\\\'ll attempt to do the same to you once your guard drops and they\\\'ve gotten some training or advantage.

A \\\'\\\'constant\\\'\\\' state of fear and death. In the old Fire Nation, you could be killed at any time for something one of your any of your family did, simply because they know you\\\'d fight for them. All that keeps you alive is a lord strong enough to kill vendetta-seekers first, hopefully one who won\\\'t sacrifice you in pursuit of his \\\'\\\'own\\\'\\\' vendettas. It makes me wonder why anyone would want to associate with Fire Nationals in any way, shape or form. Hell yes, people would joke about, \\\"The hurricane getting the rest of them.\\\"

Maybe that was Fire Lord Zouge\\\'s original plan when he became Fire Lord - LIHOP or MIHOP the murder of Kiyoshi\\\'s son(perhaps with Koh whispering in his ear), then as a \\\"loyal\\\" Fire Sage, suggest the creation of the Fire Lord. Then \\\'\\\'exterminate every clan that ever wronged his.\\\'\\\'

Only afterward, he was stuck with control over a hundred or so \\\'\\\'other\\\'\\\' clans that had their \\\'\\\'own\\\'\\\' vendettas to carry out. BeCarefulWhatYouWishFor.