It\'s true it\'s not in P3P nor Reload, but P3P does not ever show the protagonist with such reactions anyway and Reload took the heart-above-heads moments out generally. In neither case was it specifically this scene changed.
to:
It\\\'s true it\\\'s not in P3P nor Reload, but P3P does not ever show the protagonist with such reactions anyway, owing to the camera perspective shift, and Reload took the heart-above-head out generally. In neither case was it specifically this scene changed.
_\"First off, there is no heart above the Protagonist\'s head upon first meeting Aigis in any version of P3, as seen here in P3 and P3P and here in Reload which immediately disproves one of your claims.\"_
to:
\\\"First off, there is no heart above the Protagonist\\\'s head upon first meeting Aigis in any version of P3, as seen here in P3 and P3P and here in Reload which immediately disproves one of your claims.\\\"
\"First off, there is no heart above the Protagonist\'s head upon first meeting Aigis in any version of P3, as seen here in P3 and P3P and here in Reload which immediately disproves one of your claims.\"
to:
_\\\"First off, there is no heart above the Protagonist\\\'s head upon first meeting Aigis in any version of P3, as seen here in P3 and P3P and here in Reload which immediately disproves one of your claims.\\\"_
It\'s true it\'s not in P3P nor Reload, but P3P does not ever show the protagonist with such reactions anyway and Reload took the heart-above-heads moments out generally.
to:
It\\\'s true it\\\'s not in P3P nor Reload, but P3P does not ever show the protagonist with such reactions anyway and Reload took the heart-above-heads moments out generally. In neither case was it specifically this scene changed.
I fail to see how this matters. Both the Summer Festival and the Christmas Eve event are 100% optional and thus not particularly relevant.
to:
So first off, Portable added this option, not Reload, though it is in Reload too.
Changed line(s) 23 from:
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\"You\'ve pointed to a specific line of dialogue from Persona Q, deliberately ignoring the overall context of the line - Chie and Yukiko assume they\'re dating because Aigis is in full-blown robot stalker mode, and Yukari has to tell Aigis to stop answering questions when she doesn\'t understand what people are actually saying to her.\"
This is referring to a different scene. The one I am referring to is this, at 4:19.
to:
That said, I fail to see how this matters. Both the Summer Festival and the Christmas Eve event are 100% optional and thus not particularly relevant. The Christmas Date bit is also plot related, since she\\\'s out of commission at the time.
The Culture Festival moment meanwhile happens at a point where Aigis has not yet fully grown to realize her romantic feelings for the protagonist, much less to the point of understanding social situations like the one here.
Changed line(s) 29 from:
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Oh and while we are on this subject, there\'s this from PQ2.
to:
\\\"You\\\'ve pointed to a specific line of dialogue from Persona Q, deliberately ignoring the overall context of the line - Chie and Yukiko assume they\\\'re dating because Aigis is in full-blown robot stalker mode, and Yukari has to tell Aigis to stop answering questions when she doesn\\\'t understand what people are actually saying to her.\\\"
This is referring to a different scene. The one I am referring to is this, at 4:19.
Changed line(s) 33 from:
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\"You\'ve also completely ignored the fact that Aigis didn\'t even have a Social Link prior to the release of FES, and was therefore not even a romance option. And even when it was added, Atlus didn\'t code it as a romance, as evidenced by the lack of \"You are now in an intimate relationship\" flags.\"
Because it really doesn\'t matter, honestly. There\'s nothing here but speculation, and besides, Aigis\' S. Link was added in the very next release of the game which came out the very next year and has been in every single release since. It\'s been in more releases at this point (3 of 4) then has Aigis not been an option for the Summer Festival (2 of 4).
to:
Oh and while we are on this subject, there\\\'s this from PQ2.
Changed line(s) 37 from:
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\"Yukari receives more ship tease than any other character because the player is actively able to flirt with Yukari in dialogue choices outside of her social link, which cannot be said for any other character in the game. It\'s not just a case of the love hotel and Yakushima beach scenes.\"
I assume you expect us to just take your word for this, since you didn\'t provide any evidence.
to:
\\\"You\\\'ve also completely ignored the fact that Aigis didn\\\'t even have a Social Link prior to the release of FES, and was therefore not even a romance option. And even when it was added, Atlus didn\\\'t code it as a romance, as evidenced by the lack of \\\"You are now in an intimate relationship\\\" flags.\\\"
Changed line(s) 41 from:
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\"The bad ending is relevant, especially as Reload now includes two versions of the bad ending - if you romance Yukari, and if you romance a different character. The version with Yukari romanced remains the same as the original iteration of the bad ending, implying that without the input of the player, Yukari and the Protagonist started dating. The bad ending is relevant, especially as Reload now includes two versions of the bad ending - if you romance Yukari, and if you romance a different character. The version with Yukari romanced remains the same as the original iteration of the bad ending, implying that without the input of the player, Yukari and the Protagonist started dating.\"
to:
Because it really doesn\\\'t matter, honestly. There\\\'s nothing here but speculation, and besides, Aigis\\\' S. Link was added in the very next release of the game which came out the very next year and has been in every single release since. It\\\'s been in more releases at this point (3 of 4) then has Aigis not been an option for the Summer Festival (2 of 4).
Changed line(s) 43 from:
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The bad ending isn\'t canon. That\'s my primary point here.
to:
\\\"Yukari receives more ship tease than any other character because the player is actively able to flirt with Yukari in dialogue choices outside of her social link, which cannot be said for any other character in the game. It\\\'s not just a case of the love hotel and Yakushima beach scenes.\\\"
Changed line(s) 45 from:
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\"Yes, it\'s implied that the love hotel scene also happens to whoever else is in the party, but the Protagonist remains locked to Yukari, it is not possible to be paired up with Mitsuru, another potential romantic interest - implicitly because there is a mutual attraction between Yukari and the Protagonist.\"
to:
I assume you expect us to just take your word for this, since you didn\\\'t provide any evidence.
Changed line(s) 47 from:
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Yukari\'s reasoning for wanting to go to the Hotel has nothing to do with her feelings for the protag one way or another, while the same situation is implied to have happened to whoever else is in your party, even if it\'s Akihiko and Junpei. Do you think Akihiko and Junpei are also attracted to one another?
to:
\\\"The bad ending is relevant, especially as Reload now includes two versions of the bad ending - if you romance Yukari, and if you romance a different character. The version with Yukari romanced remains the same as the original iteration of the bad ending, implying that without the input of the player, Yukari and the Protagonist started dating. The bad ending is relevant, especially as Reload now includes two versions of the bad ending - if you romance Yukari, and if you romance a different character. The version with Yukari romanced remains the same as the original iteration of the bad ending, implying that without the input of the player, Yukari and the Protagonist started dating.\\\"
Changed line(s) 49 from:
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It\'s shiptease, but it\'s ultimately just that.
to:
The bad ending isn\\\'t canon. That\\\'s my primary point here.
Changed line(s) 51 from:
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\"About P 3 D - the argument isn\'t what you claim it is, but rather, in the Social Events the only character that Makoto shares any flirty responses with is Yukari. Which is factually true\"
to:
\\\"Yes, it\\\'s implied that the love hotel scene also happens to whoever else is in the party, but the Protagonist remains locked to Yukari, it is not possible to be paired up with Mitsuru, another potential romantic interest - implicitly because there is a mutual attraction between Yukari and the Protagonist.\\\"
Changed line(s) 53 from:
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I\'ve never played P3D, but I once again notice you putting player options ahead of what happens without player imput. That scene I linked has no player imput to it at all, it happens no matter what you decide.
to:
Yukari\\\'s reasoning for wanting to go to the Hotel has nothing to do with her feelings for the protag one way or another, while the same situation is implied to have happened to whoever else is in your party, even if it\\\'s Akihiko and Junpei. Do you think Akihiko and Junpei are also attracted to one another?
Changed line(s) 55 from:
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\"As far as the Answer goes, the reason Yukari has those feelings of jealousy is because she was actively in love with the Protagonist and the narrative really isn\'t subtle about it. And Yukari specifically refers to Aigis\' desire to protect the Protagonist being stronger, that\'s it. Not her feelings in general.\"
to:
It\\\'s shiptease, but it\\\'s ultimately just that.
Changed line(s) 57 from:
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Aigis is also in love with the protagonist and given that Yukari admits Aigis\' feelings were stronger? Yeah. In the Japanese version Yukari says that Aigis\' feelings for the protag are \"bottomless\".
to:
\\\"About P 3 D - the argument isn\\\'t what you claim it is, but rather, in the Social Events the only character that Makoto shares any flirty responses with is Yukari. Which is factually true\\\"
Changed line(s) 59 from:
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\"And keep in mind, the original entry didn\'t consider anything from Reload and if it did, there would be even more evidence to support Yukari as the ILI, as they not only added more scenes that support that, they actively removed some of the stuff that supports Aigis in that role, like the Protagonist holding her hand after she gets wrecked fighting Ryoji.\"
to:
I\\\'ve never played P3D, but I once again notice you putting player options ahead of what happens without player imput. That scene I linked has no player imput to it at all, it happens no matter what you decide.
Changed line(s) 61 from:
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So you ARE aware of that scene of the protag holding hands with Aigis. Odd you didn\'t add that earlier when claiming Aigis and Makoto have no scenes prior to the rooftop.
to:
\\\"As far as the Answer goes, the reason Yukari has those feelings of jealousy is because she was actively in love with the Protagonist and the narrative really isn\\\'t subtle about it. And Yukari specifically refers to Aigis\\\' desire to protect the Protagonist being stronger, that\\\'s it. Not her feelings in general.\\\"
Changed line(s) 63 from:
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Reload, btw, also added in this scene. At 16:23 the protag responds to being freed by running up to Aigis and putting his arm around her.
to:
Aigis is also in love with the protagonist and given that Yukari admits Aigis\\\' feelings were stronger? Yeah. In the Japanese version Yukari says that Aigis\\\' feelings for the protag are \\\"bottomless\\\".
\\\"And keep in mind, the original entry didn\\\'t consider anything from Reload and if it did, there would be even more evidence to support Yukari as the ILI, as they not only added more scenes that support that, they actively removed some of the stuff that supports Aigis in that role, like the Protagonist holding her hand after she gets wrecked fighting Ryoji.\\\"
Changed line(s) 67 from:
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It\'s true that out of 4 versions of Persona 3 not all handle every detail the same way, but when you have 4 versions the article is supposed to reflect all 4, not just whichever one best serves an argument.
to:
So you ARE aware of that scene of the protag holding hands with Aigis. Odd you didn\\\'t add that earlier when claiming Aigis and Makoto have no scenes prior to the rooftop.
Changed line(s) 68 from:
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Reload, btw, also added in this scene. At 16:23 the protag responds to being freed by running up to Aigis and putting his arm around her.
It\\\'s true that out of 4 versions of Persona 3 not all handle every detail the same way, but when you have 4 versions the article is supposed to reflect all 4, not just whichever one best serves an argument.
Your own video link has it at 11:16. It\'s true it\'s not in P3P nor Reload, but P3P does not ever show the protagonist with such reactions anyway and Reload took the heart-above-heads moments out generally.
to:
Your own video link has it at 11:16.
Changed line(s) 5 from:
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\"Secondly, there are not \"several\" non-optional scenes that emphasise their bond, because after her introduction, Aigis doesn\'t contribute to the story in any meaningful way until the events of November 4th. Outside of Full Moon operations, she\'s either used for comic relief one-liners because she doesn\'t understand human conventions, or she remains silent - something that continues through to early December, when she\'s briefly written out of the plot.\"
Scenes include 11/30, where Makoto hangs back to talk with Aigis and Aigis tells him he is special to him. On 12/01, after her fight with Ryoji, they hold hands. Seen in this clip at 7:42. This also happens in Portable.
to:
It\\\'s true it\\\'s not in P3P nor Reload, but P3P does not ever show the protagonist with such reactions anyway and Reload took the heart-above-heads moments out generally.
\\\"Secondly, there are not \\\"several\\\" non-optional scenes that emphasise their bond, because after her introduction, Aigis doesn\\\'t contribute to the story in any meaningful way until the events of November 4th. Outside of Full Moon operations, she\\\'s either used for comic relief one-liners because she doesn\\\'t understand human conventions, or she remains silent - something that continues through to early December, when she\\\'s briefly written out of the plot.\\\"
Changed line(s) 11 from:
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On 1/25, the two have a one-on-one talk on the rooftop where Aigis says she wants to be by his side, again. Then after returning from Nyx, there is a cutscene in the original and FES where Aigis cries and Makoto smiles, seen at 20:24 of this video:
to:
Scenes include 11/30, where Makoto hangs back to talk with Aigis and Aigis tells him he is special to him. On 12/01, after her fight with Ryoji, they hold hands. Seen in this clip at 7:42. This also happens in Portable.
\"Thirdly, Aigis is not an option for either the Summer Festival (at least prior to Reload) or for the Christmas date, nor does she have any notable response in the Cultural Festival scene where Chihiro and Yuko start getting possessive of the Protagonist, whilst Yukari does have a reaction and is an option for the dates. Whilst Reload would add a Summer Festival date, it should be noted that scene also includes Mitsuru, and plays out like the Protagonist and Mitsuru are parents to Aigis the inquisitive child.\"
to:
On 1/25, the two have a one-on-one talk on the rooftop where Aigis says she wants to be by his side, again. Then after returning from Nyx, there is a cutscene in the original and FES where Aigis cries and Makoto smiles, seen at 20:24 of this video:
Changed line(s) 17 from:
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I fail to see how this matters. Both the Summer Festival and the Christmas Eve event are 100% optional and thus not particularly relevant.
\"You\'ve pointed to a specific line of dialogue from Persona Q, deliberately ignoring the overall context of the line - Chie and Yukiko assume they\'re dating because Aigis is in full-blown robot stalker mode, and Yukari has to tell Aigis to stop answering questions when she doesn\'t understand what people are actually saying to her.\"
to:
\\\"Thirdly, Aigis is not an option for either the Summer Festival (at least prior to Reload) or for the Christmas date, nor does she have any notable response in the Cultural Festival scene where Chihiro and Yuko start getting possessive of the Protagonist, whilst Yukari does have a reaction and is an option for the dates. Whilst Reload would add a Summer Festival date, it should be noted that scene also includes Mitsuru, and plays out like the Protagonist and Mitsuru are parents to Aigis the inquisitive child.\\\"
Changed line(s) 21 from:
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This is referring to a different scene. The one I am referring to is this, at 4:19.
to:
I fail to see how this matters. Both the Summer Festival and the Christmas Eve event are 100% optional and thus not particularly relevant.
\\\"You\\\'ve pointed to a specific line of dialogue from Persona Q, deliberately ignoring the overall context of the line - Chie and Yukiko assume they\\\'re dating because Aigis is in full-blown robot stalker mode, and Yukari has to tell Aigis to stop answering questions when she doesn\\\'t understand what people are actually saying to her.\\\"
Changed line(s) 25 from:
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Oh and while we are on this subject, there\'s this from PQ2.
to:
This is referring to a different scene. The one I am referring to is this, at 4:19.
\"You\'ve also completely ignored the fact that Aigis didn\'t even have a Social Link prior to the release of FES, and was therefore not even a romance option. And even when it was added, Atlus didn\'t code it as a romance, as evidenced by the lack of \"You are now in an intimate relationship\" flags.\"
to:
Oh and while we are on this subject, there\\\'s this from PQ2.
Changed line(s) 31 from:
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Because it really doesn\'t matter, honestly. There\'s nothing here but speculation, and besides, Aigis\' S. Link was added in the very next release of the game which came out the very next year and has been in every single release since. It\'s been in more releases at this point (3 of 4) then has Aigis not been an option for the Summer Festival (2 of 4).
\"Yukari receives more ship tease than any other character because the player is actively able to flirt with Yukari in dialogue choices outside of her social link, which cannot be said for any other character in the game. It\'s not just a case of the love hotel and Yakushima beach scenes.\"
to:
\\\"You\\\'ve also completely ignored the fact that Aigis didn\\\'t even have a Social Link prior to the release of FES, and was therefore not even a romance option. And even when it was added, Atlus didn\\\'t code it as a romance, as evidenced by the lack of \\\"You are now in an intimate relationship\\\" flags.\\\"
Changed line(s) 35 from:
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I assume you expect us to just take your word for this, since you didn\'t provide any evidence.
to:
Because it really doesn\\\'t matter, honestly. There\\\'s nothing here but speculation, and besides, Aigis\\\' S. Link was added in the very next release of the game which came out the very next year and has been in every single release since. It\\\'s been in more releases at this point (3 of 4) then has Aigis not been an option for the Summer Festival (2 of 4).
Changed line(s) 37 from:
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\"The bad ending is relevant, especially as Reload now includes two versions of the bad ending - if you romance Yukari, and if you romance a different character. The version with Yukari romanced remains the same as the original iteration of the bad ending, implying that without the input of the player, Yukari and the Protagonist started dating. The bad ending is relevant, especially as Reload now includes two versions of the bad ending - if you romance Yukari, and if you romance a different character. The version with Yukari romanced remains the same as the original iteration of the bad ending, implying that without the input of the player, Yukari and the Protagonist started dating.\"
to:
\\\"Yukari receives more ship tease than any other character because the player is actively able to flirt with Yukari in dialogue choices outside of her social link, which cannot be said for any other character in the game. It\\\'s not just a case of the love hotel and Yakushima beach scenes.\\\"
Changed line(s) 39 from:
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The bad ending isn\'t canon. That\'s my primary point here.
to:
I assume you expect us to just take your word for this, since you didn\\\'t provide any evidence.
Changed line(s) 41 from:
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\"Yes, it\'s implied that the love hotel scene also happens to whoever else is in the party, but the Protagonist remains locked to Yukari, it is not possible to be paired up with Mitsuru, another potential romantic interest - implicitly because there is a mutual attraction between Yukari and the Protagonist.\"
to:
\\\"The bad ending is relevant, especially as Reload now includes two versions of the bad ending - if you romance Yukari, and if you romance a different character. The version with Yukari romanced remains the same as the original iteration of the bad ending, implying that without the input of the player, Yukari and the Protagonist started dating. The bad ending is relevant, especially as Reload now includes two versions of the bad ending - if you romance Yukari, and if you romance a different character. The version with Yukari romanced remains the same as the original iteration of the bad ending, implying that without the input of the player, Yukari and the Protagonist started dating.\\\"
Changed line(s) 43 from:
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Yukari\'s reasoning for wanting to go to the Hotel has nothing to do with her feelings for the protag one way or another, while the same situation is implied to have happened to whoever else is in your party, even if it\'s Akihiko and Junpei. Do you think Akihiko and Junpei are also attracted to one another?
to:
The bad ending isn\\\'t canon. That\\\'s my primary point here.
Changed line(s) 45 from:
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It\'s shiptease, but it\'s ultimately just that.
to:
\\\"Yes, it\\\'s implied that the love hotel scene also happens to whoever else is in the party, but the Protagonist remains locked to Yukari, it is not possible to be paired up with Mitsuru, another potential romantic interest - implicitly because there is a mutual attraction between Yukari and the Protagonist.\\\"
Changed line(s) 47 from:
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\"About P 3 D - the argument isn\'t what you claim it is, but rather, in the Social Events the only character that Makoto shares any flirty responses with is Yukari. Which is factually true\"
to:
Yukari\\\'s reasoning for wanting to go to the Hotel has nothing to do with her feelings for the protag one way or another, while the same situation is implied to have happened to whoever else is in your party, even if it\\\'s Akihiko and Junpei. Do you think Akihiko and Junpei are also attracted to one another?
Changed line(s) 49 from:
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I\'ve never played P3D, but I once again notice you putting player options ahead of what happens without player imput. That scene I linked has no player imput to it at all, it happens no matter what you decide.
to:
It\\\'s shiptease, but it\\\'s ultimately just that.
Changed line(s) 51 from:
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\"As far as the Answer goes, the reason Yukari has those feelings of jealousy is because she was actively in love with the Protagonist and the narrative really isn\'t subtle about it. And Yukari specifically refers to Aigis\' desire to protect the Protagonist being stronger, that\'s it. Not her feelings in general.\"
to:
\\\"About P 3 D - the argument isn\\\'t what you claim it is, but rather, in the Social Events the only character that Makoto shares any flirty responses with is Yukari. Which is factually true\\\"
Changed line(s) 53 from:
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Aigis is also in love with the protagonist and given that Yukari admits Aigis\' feelings were stronger? Yeah.
to:
I\\\'ve never played P3D, but I once again notice you putting player options ahead of what happens without player imput. That scene I linked has no player imput to it at all, it happens no matter what you decide.
Changed line(s) 55 from:
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\"And keep in mind, the original entry didn\'t consider anything from Reload and if it did, there would be even more evidence to support Yukari as the ILI, as they not only added more scenes that support that, they actively removed some of the stuff that supports Aigis in that role, like the Protagonist holding her hand after she gets wrecked fighting Ryoji.\"
to:
\\\"As far as the Answer goes, the reason Yukari has those feelings of jealousy is because she was actively in love with the Protagonist and the narrative really isn\\\'t subtle about it. And Yukari specifically refers to Aigis\\\' desire to protect the Protagonist being stronger, that\\\'s it. Not her feelings in general.\\\"
Changed line(s) 57 from:
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So you ARE aware of that scene of the protag holding hands with Aigis. Odd you didn\'t add that earlier when claiming Aigis and Makoto have no scenes prior to the rooftop.
to:
Aigis is also in love with the protagonist and given that Yukari admits Aigis\\\' feelings were stronger? Yeah. In the Japanese version Yukari says that Aigis\\\' feelings for the protag are \\\"bottomless\\\".
Changed line(s) 59 from:
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Reload, btw, also added in this scene. At 16:23 the protag responds to being freed by running up to Aigis and putting his arm around her.
to:
\\\"And keep in mind, the original entry didn\\\'t consider anything from Reload and if it did, there would be even more evidence to support Yukari as the ILI, as they not only added more scenes that support that, they actively removed some of the stuff that supports Aigis in that role, like the Protagonist holding her hand after she gets wrecked fighting Ryoji.\\\"
So you ARE aware of that scene of the protag holding hands with Aigis. Odd you didn\\\'t add that earlier when claiming Aigis and Makoto have no scenes prior to the rooftop.
Changed line(s) 63 from:
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It\'s true that out of 4 versions of Persona 3 not all handle every detail the same way, but when you have 4 versions the article is supposed to reflect all 4, not just whichever one best serves an argument.
to:
Reload, btw, also added in this scene. At 16:23 the protag responds to being freed by running up to Aigis and putting his arm around her.
It\\\'s true that out of 4 versions of Persona 3 not all handle every detail the same way, but when you have 4 versions the article is supposed to reflect all 4, not just whichever one best serves an argument.
