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Snaplock
Current Version
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It seems like you\'re making a lot of assumptions by saying that the dragons even needed to establish an \
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It seems like you\\\'re making a lot of assumptions by saying that the dragons even needed to establish an \\\"embodiment of Order\\\" separate from the Crucible and Elden Ring (they pretty clearly did use the latter). We\\\'ve very little idea of what the world before the Erdtree even looked like or what the Greater Will wanted from it. But from what we know in the present, the Greater Will is hands-off and it\\\'s Marika and the Elden Beast who were/are taking action to build the Golden Order (which is a religion devoted to Marika specifically, not the Greater Will in general).
Also, as noted, 1.0 (which was still a release version of the game, so should at least have primacy over fan assumptions) outright states that the god of Farum Azula is the Greater Will. The priests in Farum Azula are chosen to guard the dragons, which is why they use dragon incantations (Farum Azula Beastmen Ashes), and they\\\'re friendly to the dragons there. That should more or less confirm that the dragons served the Greater Will.
I\\\'ll also emphasize this again - Placidusax was an Elden Lord. There are depictions of the [[https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/uopx4s/the_elden_ring_in_farum_azula_represents_the/ Elden Ring in Farum Azula]] from a time before the Erdtree, and what appears to be the Crucible. Elden Lord is a title associated with the Greater Will and the word \\\"Elden\\\" is synonymous with its influence (as in the Elden Beast). No other god\\\'s chosen ruler is called an Elden Lord. We even have other titles for the outer gods\\\' equivalents - like Lord of Blood (Mohg Remembrance) and Lord of Night (Nox Monk Armor).
Even if we were to buy into the idea that the dragons didn\\\'t serve the Greater Will before the Age of the Erdtree, that still wouldn\\\'t prove or even imply the existence of a dragon god. The dragons are only confirmed to have been serving any god because of a line of text about \\\'\\\'Elden Lord\\\'\\\' Placidusax, and it\\\'s not stated that he lived before the Age of the Erdtree.
Also, as noted, 1.0 (which was still a release version of the game, so should at least have primacy over fan assumptions) outright states that the god of Farum Azula is the Greater Will. The priests in Farum Azula are chosen to guard the dragons, which is why they use dragon incantations (Farum Azula Beastmen Ashes), and they\\\'re friendly to the dragons there. That should more or less confirm that the dragons served the Greater Will.
I\\\'ll also emphasize this again - Placidusax was an Elden Lord. There are depictions of the [[https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/uopx4s/the_elden_ring_in_farum_azula_represents_the/ Elden Ring in Farum Azula]] from a time before the Erdtree, and what appears to be the Crucible. Elden Lord is a title associated with the Greater Will and the word \\\"Elden\\\" is synonymous with its influence (as in the Elden Beast). No other god\\\'s chosen ruler is called an Elden Lord. We even have other titles for the outer gods\\\' equivalents - like Lord of Blood (Mohg Remembrance) and Lord of Night (Nox Monk Armor).
Even if we were to buy into the idea that the dragons didn\\\'t serve the Greater Will before the Age of the Erdtree, that still wouldn\\\'t prove or even imply the existence of a dragon god. The dragons are only confirmed to have been serving any god because of a line of text about \\\'\\\'Elden Lord\\\'\\\' Placidusax, and it\\\'s not stated that he lived before the Age of the Erdtree.
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Again, the idea that there was an age of dragons independent from the Greater Will is dependent implicitly on equating the Greater Will to the Erdtree. But they\'re not the same thing. The Erdtree is merely one of the many tools of the Greater Will, and continues to to rule and act independently even when the Greater Will itself is absent. The Crucible existed before the Erdtree (Crucible Tree Armor) and was very likely a tool of the Greater Will given that the Greater Will created life in the Lands Between.
to:
Again, the idea that there was an age of dragons independent from the Greater Will depends on implicitly on equating the Greater Will to the Erdtree. But they\\\'re not the same thing. The Erdtree is merely one of the many tools of the Greater Will, and continues to to rule and act independently even when the Greater Will itself is absent. The Crucible existed before the Erdtree (Crucible Tree Armor) and was very likely a tool of the Greater Will given that the Greater Will created life in the Lands Between.
Changed line(s) 3 from:
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It seems like you\'re making a lot of assumptions by saying that the dragons even needed to establish an \
to:
It seems like you\\\'re making a lot of assumptions by saying that the dragons even needed to establish an \\\"embodiment of Order\\\" separate from the Crucible and Elden Ring (they pretty clearly did use the latter). We\\\'ve very little idea of what the world before the Erdtree even looked like or what the Greater Will wanted from it. But from what we know in the present, the Greater Will is hands-off and it\\\'s Marika and the Elden Beast who were/are taking action to build the Golden Order (which is a religion devoted to Marika specifically, not the Greater Will in general).
Also, as noted, 1.0 (which was still a release version of the game, so should at least have primacy over fan assumptions) outright states that the god of Farum Azula is the Greater Will. The priests in Farum Azula are chosen to guard the dragons, which is why they use dragon incantations (Farum Azula Beastmen Ashes), and they\\\'re friendly to the dragons there. That should more or less confirm that the dragons served the Greater Will.
I\\\'ll also emphasize this again - Placidusax was an Elden Lord. There are depictions of the [[https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/uopx4s/the_elden_ring_in_farum_azula_represents_the/ Elden Ring in Farum Azula]] from a time before the Erdtree. Elden Lord is a title associated with the Greater Will and the word \\\"Elden\\\" is synonymous with its influence (as in the Elden Beast). No other god\\\'s chosen ruler is called an Elden Lord. We even have other titles for the outer gods\\\' equivalents - like Lord of Blood (Mohg Remembrance) and Lord of Night (Nox Monk Armor).
Even if we were to buy into the idea that the dragons didn\\\'t serve the Greater Will before the Age of the Erdtree, that still wouldn\\\'t prove or even imply the existence of a dragon god. The dragons are only confirmed to have been serving any god because of a line of text about \\\'\\\'Elden Lord\\\'\\\' Placidusax, and it\\\'s not stated that he lived before the Age of the Erdtree.
Also, as noted, 1.0 (which was still a release version of the game, so should at least have primacy over fan assumptions) outright states that the god of Farum Azula is the Greater Will. The priests in Farum Azula are chosen to guard the dragons, which is why they use dragon incantations (Farum Azula Beastmen Ashes), and they\\\'re friendly to the dragons there. That should more or less confirm that the dragons served the Greater Will.
I\\\'ll also emphasize this again - Placidusax was an Elden Lord. There are depictions of the [[https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/uopx4s/the_elden_ring_in_farum_azula_represents_the/ Elden Ring in Farum Azula]] from a time before the Erdtree. Elden Lord is a title associated with the Greater Will and the word \\\"Elden\\\" is synonymous with its influence (as in the Elden Beast). No other god\\\'s chosen ruler is called an Elden Lord. We even have other titles for the outer gods\\\' equivalents - like Lord of Blood (Mohg Remembrance) and Lord of Night (Nox Monk Armor).
Even if we were to buy into the idea that the dragons didn\\\'t serve the Greater Will before the Age of the Erdtree, that still wouldn\\\'t prove or even imply the existence of a dragon god. The dragons are only confirmed to have been serving any god because of a line of text about \\\'\\\'Elden Lord\\\'\\\' Placidusax, and it\\\'s not stated that he lived before the Age of the Erdtree.
