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Cryocene
Current Version
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You did quote me, right? We should try to keep speculations to the minimum? Please take a look at your own messages, please.
\\\"We can also light the Giant\\\'s Forge with Frenzied Flame so there\\\'s more reason that there\\\'s some form of bleedthrough with things that have similar symbolism and thematics\\\"... um, hello? Are you serious?
Anyone properly trained can light the Fire in the Forge of the Giants. Finger Maidens in particular were \\\'\\\'taught\\\'\\\' to burn themselves in the Forge to open a path to the Erdtree for their respective Tarnished (Vyke\\\'s Finger Maiden for example, as it\\\'s speculated Vyke turned to the Three Fingers so she didn\\\'t have to sacrifice herself).
Becoming the Lord of Chaos just means a Tarnished can light up the flame, burn, and \\\'\\\'still survive\\\'\\\' because the Frenzied Flame keeps them alive (like how it keeps Shabriri alive). It has regrettably little to do with Frenzied Flame and the Fell God\\\'s Flames having \\\"similar thematics\\\".
Bleedthrough? Resonance between different outer gods? Where are these details coming from? How many headcanons and speculations are you going to pile up until you are satisfied, Bagga?
I won\\\'t claim the current picture which this page is currently painting are \\\'\\\'definitely facts\\\'\\\' (hell, the trope AmbiguousSituation is used over and over in the page to emphasize they are just speculations, just the most reasonable ones we can have right now), but I \\\'\\\'can\\\'\\\' say it is less speculative than the headcanons \\\'\\\'you\\\'\\\' are spouting.
Also, the Deathbirds and the Godskin worshipping the same force of death isn\\\'t different than what \\\'\\\'you\\\'\\\' are saying about the Dragons worshipping the Greater Will despite literally wielding Incantations which deal no Holy damage whatsoever, purely Lightning damage.
Per \\\'\\\'your own\\\'\\\' logic, \\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'different adherents of the same outer god can harness significantly different powers from their outer gods\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\', as you are claiming the Dragons who make absolutely zero use of Erdtree or Golden Order Incantations whatsoever used to worship the Greater Will.
Then why are you so insistent about Deathbirds and Godskin worshipping a different force then, despite Ghostflame and Blackflame having \\\'\\\'more\\\'\\\' similarities with each other than Golden Order Incantation and Ancient Dragon Incantations? Can\\\'t you see you are contradicting yourself?
\\\"Miquella being thematically the saviour of those who were abandoned by the Golden Order makes it even more likely that Placidusax served the Greater Will once.\\\" How do you come to this conclusion even? Miquella was merely using Unalloyed Gold which had unclear but definite connections to the Dragonlord.
Doesn\\\'t necessarily mean Miquella is in any way affiliated with the Dragonlord. They have no real lore connection other than the fact lots of Placidusax\\\'s scales can be found in Consecrated Snowfield. More headcanon? Again?
Miquella\\\'s Unalloyed Gold is also explicitly against Golden Order, too; it was said it could \\\'\\\'replace\\\'\\\' the Order, and we know how Greater Will and its servants react to anything which could threaten it; extreme prejudice. Just ask Marika for trying to Shattter the Elden Ring. Godwyn is an exception for trying to integrate the Dragons into Golden Order, but ultimately the Dragons fell victim to the Dragon Communion practice, making them victims under the Golden Order.
I am afraid I can\\\'t even take you seriously at this point, Bagga. If, by your next message, you can\\\'t make points without \\\'\\\'less\\\'\\\' speculation than the current one we are using in this page, then forget having this discussion.
\\\"We can also light the Giant\\\'s Forge with Frenzied Flame so there\\\'s more reason that there\\\'s some form of bleedthrough with things that have similar symbolism and thematics\\\"... um, hello? Are you serious?
Anyone properly trained can light the Fire in the Forge of the Giants. Finger Maidens in particular were \\\'\\\'taught\\\'\\\' to burn themselves in the Forge to open a path to the Erdtree for their respective Tarnished (Vyke\\\'s Finger Maiden for example, as it\\\'s speculated Vyke turned to the Three Fingers so she didn\\\'t have to sacrifice herself).
Becoming the Lord of Chaos just means a Tarnished can light up the flame, burn, and \\\'\\\'still survive\\\'\\\' because the Frenzied Flame keeps them alive (like how it keeps Shabriri alive). It has regrettably little to do with Frenzied Flame and the Fell God\\\'s Flames having \\\"similar thematics\\\".
Bleedthrough? Resonance between different outer gods? Where are these details coming from? How many headcanons and speculations are you going to pile up until you are satisfied, Bagga?
I won\\\'t claim the current picture which this page is currently painting are \\\'\\\'definitely facts\\\'\\\' (hell, the trope AmbiguousSituation is used over and over in the page to emphasize they are just speculations, just the most reasonable ones we can have right now), but I \\\'\\\'can\\\'\\\' say it is less speculative than the headcanons \\\'\\\'you\\\'\\\' are spouting.
Also, the Deathbirds and the Godskin worshipping the same force of death isn\\\'t different than what \\\'\\\'you\\\'\\\' are saying about the Dragons worshipping the Greater Will despite literally wielding Incantations which deal no Holy damage whatsoever, purely Lightning damage.
Per \\\'\\\'your own\\\'\\\' logic, \\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'different adherents of the same outer god can harness significantly different powers from their outer gods\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\', as you are claiming the Dragons who make absolutely zero use of Erdtree or Golden Order Incantations whatsoever used to worship the Greater Will.
Then why are you so insistent about Deathbirds and Godskin worshipping a different force then, despite Ghostflame and Blackflame having \\\'\\\'more\\\'\\\' similarities with each other than Golden Order Incantation and Ancient Dragon Incantations? Can\\\'t you see you are contradicting yourself?
\\\"Miquella being thematically the saviour of those who were abandoned by the Golden Order makes it even more likely that Placidusax served the Greater Will once.\\\" How do you come to this conclusion even? Miquella was merely using Unalloyed Gold which had unclear but definite connections to the Dragonlord.
Doesn\\\'t necessarily mean Miquella is in any way affiliated with the Dragonlord. They have no real lore connection other than the fact lots of Placidusax\\\'s scales can be found in Consecrated Snowfield. More headcanon? Again?
Miquella\\\'s Unalloyed Gold is also explicitly against Golden Order, too; it was said it could \\\'\\\'replace\\\'\\\' the Order, and we know how Greater Will and its servants react to anything which could threaten it; extreme prejudice. Just ask Marika for trying to Shattter the Elden Ring. Godwyn is an exception for trying to integrate the Dragons into Golden Order, but ultimately the Dragons fell victim to the Dragon Communion practice, making them victims under the Golden Order.
I am afraid I can\\\'t even take you seriously at this point, Bagga. If, by your next message, you can\\\'t make points without \\\'\\\'less\\\'\\\' speculation than the current one we are using in this page, then forget having this discussion.
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You did quote me, right? We should try to keep speculations to the minimum? Please take a look at your own messages, please.
\\\"We can also light the Giant\\\'s Forge with Frenzied Flame so there\\\'s more reason that there\\\'s some form of bleedthrough with things that have similar symbolism and thematics\\\"... um, hello? Are you serious?
Anyone properly trained can light the Fire in the Forge of the Giants. Finger Maidens in particular were \\\'\\\'taught\\\'\\\' to burn themselves in the Forge to open a path to the Erdtree for their respective Tarnished (Vyke\\\'s Finger Maiden for example, as it\\\'s speculated Vyke turned to the Three Fingers so she didn\\\'t have to sacrifice herself).
Becoming the Lord of Chaos just means a Tarnished can light up the flame, burn, and \\\'\\\'still survive\\\'\\\' because the Frenzied Flame keeps them alive (like how it keeps Shabriri alive). It has regrettably little to do with Frenzied Flame and the Fell God\\\'s Flames having \\\"similar thematics\\\".
Bleedthrough? Resonance between different outer gods? Where are these details coming from? How many headcanons and speculations are you going to pile up until you are satisfied, Bagga?
I won\\\'t claim the current picture which this page is currently painting are \\\'\\\'definitely facts\\\'\\\' (hell, the trope AmbiguousSituation is used over and over in the page to emphasize they are just speculations, just the most reasonable ones we can have right now), but I \\\'\\\'can\\\'\\\' say it is less speculative than the headcanons \\\'\\\'you\\\'\\\' are spouting.
Also, the Deathbirds and the Godskin worshipping the same force of death isn\\\'t different than what \\\'\\\'you\\\'\\\' are saying about the Dragons worshipping the Greater Will despite literally wielding Incantations which deal no Holy damage whatsoever, purely Lightning damage.
Per \\\'\\\'your own\\\'\\\' logic, \\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'different adherents of the same outer god can harness significantly different powers from their outer gods\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\', as you are claiming the Dragons who make absolutely zero use of Erdtree or Golden Order Incantations whatsoever used to worship the Greater Will.
Then why are you so insistent about Deathbirds and Godskin worshipping a different force then, despite Ghostflame and Blackflame having \\\'\\\'more\\\'\\\' similarities with each other than Golden Order Incantation and Ancient Dragon Incantations? Can\\\'t you see you are contradicting yourself?
\\\"Miquella being thematically the saviour of those who were abandoned by the Golden Order makes it even more likely that Placidusax served the Greater Will once.\\\" How do you come to this conclusion even? Miquella was merely using Unalloyed Gold which had unclear but definite connections to the Dragonlord.
Doesn\\\'t necessarily mean Miquella is in any way affiliated with the Dragonlord. They have no real lore connection other than the fact lots of Placidusax\\\'s scales can be found in Consecrated Snowfield. More headcanon? Again?
Miquella\\\'s Unalloyed Gold is also explicitly against Golden Order, too; it was said it could \\\'\\\'replace\\\'\\\' the Order, and we know how Greater Will and its servants react to anything which could threaten it; extreme prejudice. Just ask Marika for trying to Shattter the Elden Ring.
I am afraid I can\\\'t even take you seriously at this point, Bagga. If, by your next message, you can\\\'t make points without \\\'\\\'less\\\'\\\' speculation than the current one we are using in this page, then forget having this discussion.
\\\"We can also light the Giant\\\'s Forge with Frenzied Flame so there\\\'s more reason that there\\\'s some form of bleedthrough with things that have similar symbolism and thematics\\\"... um, hello? Are you serious?
Anyone properly trained can light the Fire in the Forge of the Giants. Finger Maidens in particular were \\\'\\\'taught\\\'\\\' to burn themselves in the Forge to open a path to the Erdtree for their respective Tarnished (Vyke\\\'s Finger Maiden for example, as it\\\'s speculated Vyke turned to the Three Fingers so she didn\\\'t have to sacrifice herself).
Becoming the Lord of Chaos just means a Tarnished can light up the flame, burn, and \\\'\\\'still survive\\\'\\\' because the Frenzied Flame keeps them alive (like how it keeps Shabriri alive). It has regrettably little to do with Frenzied Flame and the Fell God\\\'s Flames having \\\"similar thematics\\\".
Bleedthrough? Resonance between different outer gods? Where are these details coming from? How many headcanons and speculations are you going to pile up until you are satisfied, Bagga?
I won\\\'t claim the current picture which this page is currently painting are \\\'\\\'definitely facts\\\'\\\' (hell, the trope AmbiguousSituation is used over and over in the page to emphasize they are just speculations, just the most reasonable ones we can have right now), but I \\\'\\\'can\\\'\\\' say it is less speculative than the headcanons \\\'\\\'you\\\'\\\' are spouting.
Also, the Deathbirds and the Godskin worshipping the same force of death isn\\\'t different than what \\\'\\\'you\\\'\\\' are saying about the Dragons worshipping the Greater Will despite literally wielding Incantations which deal no Holy damage whatsoever, purely Lightning damage.
Per \\\'\\\'your own\\\'\\\' logic, \\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'different adherents of the same outer god can harness significantly different powers from their outer gods\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\', as you are claiming the Dragons who make absolutely zero use of Erdtree or Golden Order Incantations whatsoever used to worship the Greater Will.
Then why are you so insistent about Deathbirds and Godskin worshipping a different force then, despite Ghostflame and Blackflame having \\\'\\\'more\\\'\\\' similarities with each other than Golden Order Incantation and Ancient Dragon Incantations? Can\\\'t you see you are contradicting yourself?
\\\"Miquella being thematically the saviour of those who were abandoned by the Golden Order makes it even more likely that Placidusax served the Greater Will once.\\\" How do you come to this conclusion even? Miquella was merely using Unalloyed Gold which had unclear but definite connections to the Dragonlord.
Doesn\\\'t necessarily mean Miquella is in any way affiliated with the Dragonlord. They have no real lore connection other than the fact lots of Placidusax\\\'s scales can be found in Consecrated Snowfield. More headcanon? Again?
Miquella\\\'s Unalloyed Gold is also explicitly against Golden Order, too; it was said it could \\\'\\\'replace\\\'\\\' the Order, and we know how Greater Will and its servants react to anything which could threaten it; extreme prejudice. Just ask Marika for trying to Shattter the Elden Ring.
I am afraid I can\\\'t even take you seriously at this point, Bagga. If, by your next message, you can\\\'t make points without \\\'\\\'less\\\'\\\' speculation than the current one we are using in this page, then forget having this discussion.
Changed line(s) 1 from:
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to:
You did quote me, right? We should try to keep speculations to the minimum? Please take a look at your own messages, please.
\\\"We can also light the Giant\\\'s Forge with Frenzied Flame so there\\\'s more reason that there\\\'s some form of bleedthrough with things that have similar symbolism and thematics\\\"... um, hello? Are you serious?
Anyone properly trained can light the Fire in the Forge of the Giants. Finger Maidens in particular were \\\'\\\'taught\\\'\\\' to burn themselves in the Forge to open a path to the Erdtree for their respective Tarnished (Vyke\\\'s Finger Maiden for example, as it\\\'s speculated Vyke turned to the Three Fingers so she didn\\\'t have to sacrifice herself).
Becoming the Lord of Chaos just means a Tarnished can light up the flame, burn, and \\\'\\\'still survive\\\'\\\' because the Frenzied Flame keeps them alive (like how it keeps Shabriri alive). It has regrettably little to do with Frenzied Flame and the Fell God\\\'s Flames having \\\"similar thematics\\\".
Bleedthrough? Resonance between different outer gods? Where are these details coming from? How many headcanons and speculations are you going to pile up until you are satisfied, Bagga?
I won\\\'t claim the current picture which this page is currently painting are \\\'\\\'definitely facts\\\'\\\' (hell, the trope AmbiguousSituation is used over and over in the page to emphasize they are just speculations, just the most reasonable ones we can have right now), but I \\\'\\\'can\\\'\\\' say it is less speculative than the headcanons \\\'\\\'you\\\'\\\' are spouting.
Also, the Deathbirds and the Godskin worshipping the same force of death isn\\\'t different than what \\\'\\\'you\\\'\\\' are saying about the Dragons worshipping the Greater Will despite literally wielding Incantations which deal no Holy damage whatsoever, purely Lightning damage.
Per \\\'\\\'your own\\\'\\\' logic, \\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'different adherents of the same outer god can harness significantly different powers from their outer gods\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\', as you are claiming the Dragons who makes absolutely zero use of Erdtree or Golden Order Incantations whatsoever used to worship the Greater Will.
Then why are you so insistent about Godskin and Deathbirds worshipping a different force then, despite Ghostflame and Blackflame having \\\'\\\'more\\\'\\\' similarities with each other than Golden Order Incantation and Ancient Dragon Incantations? Can\\\'t you see you are contradicting yourself?
\\\"Miquella being thematically the saviour of those who were abandoned by the Golden Order makes it even more likely that Placidusax served the Greater Will once.\\\" How do you come to this conclusion even? Miquella was merely using Unalloyed Gold which had unclear but definite connections to the Dragonlord.
Doesn\\\'t necessarily mean Miquella is in any way affiliated with the Dragonlord. They have no real lore connection other than the fact lots of Placidusax\\\'s scales can be found in Consecrated Snowfield. More headcanon? Again?
Miquella\\\'s Unalloyed Gold is also explicitly against Golden Order, too; it was said it could \\\'\\\'replace\\\'\\\' the Order, and we know how Greater Will and its servants react to anything which could threaten it; extreme prejudice. Just ask Marika for trying to Shattter the Elden Ring.
I am afraid I can\\\'t even take you seriously at this point, Bagga. If, by your next message, you can\\\'t make points without \\\'\\\'less\\\'\\\' speculation than the current one we are using in this page, then forget having this discussion.
\\\"We can also light the Giant\\\'s Forge with Frenzied Flame so there\\\'s more reason that there\\\'s some form of bleedthrough with things that have similar symbolism and thematics\\\"... um, hello? Are you serious?
Anyone properly trained can light the Fire in the Forge of the Giants. Finger Maidens in particular were \\\'\\\'taught\\\'\\\' to burn themselves in the Forge to open a path to the Erdtree for their respective Tarnished (Vyke\\\'s Finger Maiden for example, as it\\\'s speculated Vyke turned to the Three Fingers so she didn\\\'t have to sacrifice herself).
Becoming the Lord of Chaos just means a Tarnished can light up the flame, burn, and \\\'\\\'still survive\\\'\\\' because the Frenzied Flame keeps them alive (like how it keeps Shabriri alive). It has regrettably little to do with Frenzied Flame and the Fell God\\\'s Flames having \\\"similar thematics\\\".
Bleedthrough? Resonance between different outer gods? Where are these details coming from? How many headcanons and speculations are you going to pile up until you are satisfied, Bagga?
I won\\\'t claim the current picture which this page is currently painting are \\\'\\\'definitely facts\\\'\\\' (hell, the trope AmbiguousSituation is used over and over in the page to emphasize they are just speculations, just the most reasonable ones we can have right now), but I \\\'\\\'can\\\'\\\' say it is less speculative than the headcanons \\\'\\\'you\\\'\\\' are spouting.
Also, the Deathbirds and the Godskin worshipping the same force of death isn\\\'t different than what \\\'\\\'you\\\'\\\' are saying about the Dragons worshipping the Greater Will despite literally wielding Incantations which deal no Holy damage whatsoever, purely Lightning damage.
Per \\\'\\\'your own\\\'\\\' logic, \\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'different adherents of the same outer god can harness significantly different powers from their outer gods\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\', as you are claiming the Dragons who makes absolutely zero use of Erdtree or Golden Order Incantations whatsoever used to worship the Greater Will.
Then why are you so insistent about Godskin and Deathbirds worshipping a different force then, despite Ghostflame and Blackflame having \\\'\\\'more\\\'\\\' similarities with each other than Golden Order Incantation and Ancient Dragon Incantations? Can\\\'t you see you are contradicting yourself?
\\\"Miquella being thematically the saviour of those who were abandoned by the Golden Order makes it even more likely that Placidusax served the Greater Will once.\\\" How do you come to this conclusion even? Miquella was merely using Unalloyed Gold which had unclear but definite connections to the Dragonlord.
Doesn\\\'t necessarily mean Miquella is in any way affiliated with the Dragonlord. They have no real lore connection other than the fact lots of Placidusax\\\'s scales can be found in Consecrated Snowfield. More headcanon? Again?
Miquella\\\'s Unalloyed Gold is also explicitly against Golden Order, too; it was said it could \\\'\\\'replace\\\'\\\' the Order, and we know how Greater Will and its servants react to anything which could threaten it; extreme prejudice. Just ask Marika for trying to Shattter the Elden Ring.
I am afraid I can\\\'t even take you seriously at this point, Bagga. If, by your next message, you can\\\'t make points without \\\'\\\'less\\\'\\\' speculation than the current one we are using in this page, then forget having this discussion.
