Touhou

While it's true Reimu has negative sides, I still think the hate is really uncalled for. Especially considering other characters' behavior. It's just seem unfair to me.

The only character who deserves hatred is Tenshi, obviously.

Anyway, while Antimatter's always made his feelings about Reimu very clear, it was always in the form of well articulated analysis rather than anything like "I can't stand her!" Essentially he would just point out her flaws in depth, and that makes it hard to respond with anything other than "okay, I can see your point." It never really stood out to me as a hate-fest of any sort.

That said, I've definitely softened on her over time myself, possible because she's one of the very few characters who consistently gets development in nearly every work. Just seeing her more often makes her more interesting. I still cock my head in confusion over her routinely winning character polls, but I can chalk that up to the sorts of people who always vote for the main character no matter what. I can scarcely imagine what it must be like to be such a person though.

edited 23rd May '16 8:40:19 AM by Clarste

One of the things I love about Reimu is her complexity; her flaws are what makes her fascinating. There's a kind of conflict in her character - between being naturally kind and being hardened by life, between treating everyone with distance and wanting to be close, between being tied down and wanting to be cut off. And maybe most of all, acting out of duty, or out of care.

Fully agree with the lady and gentleman above me (well, except for the Tenshi part, which was obviously sarcasm ). Reimu's fine, hate-spewing about any char is unpleasant and poisons the thread, and Mr. Antimatter is a fine poster who always has my utmost respect. Like Clarste said, while I don't agree with Mr. Antimatter's anti-Reimu-stance, he posts coherently and thoughtfully and is a nice poster overall, so I don't begrudge him anything. I'd really like to see him post more again.

Another thing Clarste said interested me: the idea that many people automatically vote for the Main Character of a work as their favorite char. That intrigues me, because I am actually the complete opposite with pretty much all other franchises I ever was a fan for. Harry Potter, Star Wars, Tolkien's works... the bland main chars are always uninteresting to me, and I always gravitate towards interesting, quirky side characters as my favorites, sometimes even villains. ^note For those interested, for the examples mentioned, it would be Luna Lovegood, Boba Fett, Mouth of Sauron+Gríma Wormtongue+Maeglin, Son of Eol

For Touhou, I would only count Reimu+Marisa as "THE Main chars", and Marisa is at my #2, with Reimu far, far down; so, a bit different from the other examples, I guess... but Marisa is ANYTHING but bland.

Honestly I don't really see much hatred for Reimu across this board, even antimatter's statements don't make it seem like they hate her or anything.

And while we're all talking about how we feel towards Reimu, I like the fact that how, compared to most anime protagonists, different Reimu is. I like how she's her own woman, rarely manipulated by the antagonists, or how different her personality is compared to the typical anime protagonist, like how much of a lazy jerkass she is, but if the situation's any dire, she'll really give her all in. A very different character and definitely a breath of fresh air.

In fact I like how, if an anime protagonist-type character appears, their character is usually subverted hard in the series. Take Sumireko or Mo F Sanae, they'd fit quite well as protagonists in any number of high school anime, but this is Touhou, and things don't work out that way, so both are driven insane, Sanae gets better, Sumi almost suicide-bombs her way to Gensoukyou but gets better, and its a very refreshing take on what happens if you take a generic anime protagonist and drop them into Gensoukyou.

While I can't say that I dislike Reimu and Marisa, nothing about them particularly stands out for me. If I were to talk about Touhou characters, from favorite to least favorite, they would be middlish. At the same time, I know enough about both to avoid sweeping generalizations on either of them, there is just something about them that slightly grates on my nerves and wears me out.

I find them to be just outside the characters I really like, so second or third tier (out of five to seven tiers), which is still fairly likeable.

Their flaws are what's interesting about them. If Reimu was nice all the time she would probably not be as interesting. Cuter (especially if she's silent), probably, but not more interesting.

As far as the main heroines go, I always preferred the unscrupulous hardworker Marisa over Reimu.

I don't dislike Reimu, but nothing about her really stands out to me. She just seems rather bland. Even the books, who fleshed out a lot of characters and made me like Aya, just makes Reimu seem rather dull to me. I guess it's because of me preferring side characters over the main character, like FDA above.

Hmmmm, maybe a bit compared with the insanity that is the rest of Touhou's cast, but I find her unique enough with her flaws and personality, as Mr. Duck and Zansnae said. I definitively don't find her bland compared to MANY other Main Chars of other franchises, like Luke Skywalker, Harry Potter, Orlando Bloom in POTC... hmmm... Son-Goku is fun, I like him... Usagi Tsukino is certainly flawed, but I dont like her much...

Indeed. But! What I realized after Zansnae's comment was that Sanae actually now is the pretty bland, flawless one. She mellowed out quickly, and now she's a sober, adorably geeky nice person, even confirmed by ZUN in my sig. I mean, I still like her precisely because of those nice traits, as a contrast to most of the other Touhou jerks, but yeah.

I think Sanae is less interesting. Might also have to do with her being a little more on the sidelines comparatively. I can't really say if I like nice, mean, or Jerk with a Heart of Gold characters more, since it depends entirely on the character, but on the whole contrasts are what's interesting. Someone who's mean all the time in a Crapsack World isn't that interesting. Someone who's nice in a Crapsack World can make for an interesting contrast, as can someone mean in a Sugar Bowl. Gensokyo is a bit of a mixed bag in that, really, which can make various character types interesting.

Do you think it comes down to the tone of individual stories within Gensokyo?

Yes.

Reimu does a fine job of being in the middle when it comes to her personality and how she does things, even if she's unaware of it^note How should I know what she's thinking, after all? It's why I dubbed her "The Balance Maiden" in the Compendium, which felt like ages ago(The third person examined).

Having Ying-Yan orbs as a part of her arsenal is quite the cherry on top.

I'd say so. I find Reimu to be a lot more sympathetic in Forbidden Scrollery than her appearances in Wild and Horned Hermit. FS shows her mainly as a Youkai Exterminator, while WaHH shows her as a Shrine Maiden, and she's definitely better at the former than the latter. It's kind of like a soldier having trouble re-adjusting to civilian life. It also helps that youkai in FS tend to be more menacing than those in WaHH, making Reimu look better in comparison.

Edit: Greek Hecatia

edited 23rd May '16 3:44:30 PM by Lightblade

Nuclear hell raven.

After reading everyone's posts here, I'm beginning to consider Reimu in a different light. Maybe Reimu's instead too complicated to be able to put in a consistent characterization of her in different moods of a story?

She's a ruthless youkai exterminator but reputed as a flower-viewing Youkai Shrine Maiden.
She's an utter cynic who is also extremelly naive.
She throws needles at the one who made them, but lets a miniature princess and a roguish magician stay as long as they need in her shrine.
She's a penny pincher but... actually this one's pretty much always the same.

Reimu's just seems so Yin-yang-y that it's hard to examine what kind of person she is (for me at least).

Dude, even ZUN has admitted that he doesn't know what kind of person Reimu is. As in "I haven't done anything in Reimu's respective, so I haven't really considered what kind of person she really is". She is so inconsistent because everyone writes her in their own way.

Reimu is a fairly complex character but you also have to remember the otherworldly aspects of her character. To quote the compendium:

.

WHOS READY FOR STUPID

I don't feel like Reimu is inconsistent or anything, she's just a very conflicted person. She has her duty opposed to her open-mindedness, and her loneliness opposed to her cynicism. She's just a complicated person. The ZUN quote doesn't imply that he's writing her at random, just that she's kind of hard to read.

I think people have a tendency to see characters who aren't static or linearly changing as inconsistent, rather than multi-faceted or conflicted.

Indeed. I am had observed this as well on the internet. Character development isn't always one way, Character growth isn't always one way and Static characters aren't always bad,

Don't know if this is posted here before, but I found this character poll for Touhou Genso Rondo which consists of only 11 girls.

What I find interesting is this blog with informations and bios regarding the characters that came with the poll. There's tidbits I didn't know like Mokou living in "the heart of a mountain" and that Reisen "changes her personality whenever she wants" as well as Yukari being OP. Dunno if they're accurate.

Reisen's personality thing comes from one of her profiles. Something about the manipulation of waves. Although frankly that's never been seen in her actions, so everyone ignores it

Also: Posted without comment◊

edited 25th May '16 9:35:28 AM by Clarste

how dapper