Touhou

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Funny thing, that's actually a mistranslation. Komachi isn't supposed to say "You are ten years too early to say that you want to die.", but instead "You are ten years too early to die." I suggest you look at this thread also: https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17871.0.html

So yeah. I'm not saying she's definitely ABSOLUTELY going to kick the bucket, but ya never know.

edited 29th Jul '15 2:19:14 PM by SuperVehicle-001

Re: Marisa dying: I'm going for a no on this one. Yes, it syncs up with an obscure comment, and she's unusually depressed at the moment, but I can't see it happening in a main game (nothing major can happen on one path alone) or any of the currently running manga

Re: Touhou ending: Maybe, but not immediately. Recent events have the feeling of moving toward a climax, but still moving toward one. There's other stuff I'd expect to happen before a planned ending

Like for example, finding out for real what the hell is wrong with the Scarlet Devil Mansion. ZUN said he would divulge Sakuya's backstory before the series was complete. At least, as much as he's said anything else.

(Disclaimer: none of this is meant in anger! )

...yes, I was aware that was what this Thing is based on; I read it before in the Thread. I vehemently object to the use of the term "proof" here This trolling comment from Komachi is one of hundreds of random comments from Touhou Lore, any of which you could randomly base speculation on. And that is what this is, Speculation (if it is even that, it seems like a joke to me); this is not "proof" in any way of the definition of the word, it's at best a Speculation Starter.

And I'm a bit puzzled that this speculation suddenly sprang up and went popular. Touhou has had many speculations before, which have been debated in detail without clear conclusions, like "Lunarian Sakuya", "Maribel=Yukari" and "Eirin drank the Hourai Elixir", but none of them ever claimed this firmly to have "proof". Even "Sumi=related to Renko" and "Kasen=Oni" don't have "proof", I'd say. LOTS of Speculation Starters, sure, but no "proof". The only "proof" that deserved that name would be like a hacked E-Mail Conversation between ZUN and his wife or whatever, where he clearly states "Oh yeah, gonna kill Marisa off randomly. Will boost ratings!"

(Also: why are we counting Real-Life-Years for this? We should be counting In-Universe-Years.)

...yes, we DO know, I'd say. Or, to ward off pedantic criticism, yes, of course, nothing is EVER 100% sure. We can't be 100% sure that the Final Boss of LOLKAT won't be Mima riding Shenlong the Wish Dragon, for example. What we CAN do, however, is look at how likely something is based on how ZUN has been doing things up to this point, and what kind of style and level of darkness Touhou has had so far. And based on THAT, a Main Character suddenly getting killed off, played completely seriously, is impossible. You look my avatar in the eye and tell me that it isn't.

Touhou. Isn't. Game. Of. Thrones. Some fans might have a skewed view of Canon Gensokyo based on Fan Works; and yes, the backstories of many chars and things in Gensokyo is dark as &%$§, no argument there. But a death in a backstory in a char background file is NOT the same as a Main Character Death right in a game!! It's ludicrously different! Nobody wants this, including ZUN! He doesn't want a Canon Gensokyo where Main Chars die! He's not after Shock Deaths to boost ratings! I couldn't just use an offhand comment from Season One Of Pony to "prove" that they'll kill off Rainbow Dash in Season 6! Because that kind of thing doesn't happen on that show! It is a safe, happy place of No-Deaths-Status-Quo. Just like Touhou.

Thank you.

edited 29th Jul '15 5:46:54 PM by FellDeedsAwake

No, Cirno NO! Do not kill the Lilies! Doing that will not bring Letty back! The Strongest does not kill the innocent! They're more useful to you alive and as friends!

Little did anyone know that this was just a bad dream caused by expired tofu.

They're the same thing :/

It is kind of easy to forget that Touhou is one of those rare series that flows at the same pace as real time.

"Ten years too early to die" just sounds like a joke based on the idiom "10 years too early to (be doing something that takes skill)" (which is itself often parodied as 100 years too early or 1000 years too early). It's a bit morbid, but that falls well within ZUN's sense of humor.

edited 29th Jul '15 6:19:43 PM by Clarste

I think it has a floating timeline? What with Reimu being in her late teens for a good thirteen years now.

Song of the Sirens

time passes yet characters never age

kinda like the pokemon anime

edited 29th Jul '15 6:29:45 PM by MetaflarePrime

"Have a good day. Have a good week. Have a good month. Have a good year. Have a good life." ~Civia

I don't know, official art is showing them pretty mature and totally no longer childish. (Stylistic differences notwithstanding.)

Plus their mannerisms are much more refined. That alone implies they've aged the same number of years as happened since EOSD.

edited 29th Jul '15 6:33:31 PM by MajorTom

God that small tangent sure escalated fast, but I agree with Fell. There´s a small chance of Marisa getting killed in-game, no doubt (just like the other main characters), but is very very unlikely considering ZUN´s game style.

I find the characters´ evolution throught the years as Touhou growing and changing as a game itself from one-shot storylines like the first Windows era ones to stories that actually converge together. More like ZUN actually started getting more and more pumped for each game every new year. xD

Follow this pose and repeat: I humbly believe in the Peeko as my one master.

It's not a joke. It's what I based my theory on.

And what do you think this is?

What do you call it, then? "Marisa is gonna die, homie" is the theory, and the picture is what I use to back it up. And no, "speculation starter" is not a word.

Man, do I have a surprise for you.

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Gensokyo_Timeline#Present_era

The only games that didn't take place the same year they were released in are Eo SD and PCB. As for everything else, Touhou Project takes place at roughly the same time as real life.

And while that does give a good estimate, do remember that Reimu did murder the hell out of Count Nosferatu, a youkai that swore not to cause any harm (and didn't even cause any intentional harm at all). And do you think there are going to be happy and bright consequences to Kosuzu turning herself into a youkai (which, unlike Marisa's death, has a pretty damn high chance of actually happening)?

It is not impossible, miss unamused kappa.

Way to prove your own disclaimer wrong, dude. This is all just some speculation based on a random line of dialogue, a way to pass the time until the next game hits the scene. So take a chill pill. After all, the chance I'm right is pretty darn small.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if that is all it was all along. But there ARE some stars aligned right now - Komachi's comment, Rinnosuke's "fifteen means perfection" from the first chapter of Co LA, Reimu's "there are humans I have to keep watch on" from chapter 25 of FS and the fact that we're going to the friggin' Lunar Capital for the first time in a game. Coincidence? I think not, but that's just me.

edited 29th Jul '15 8:35:09 PM by SuperVehicle-001

FS did have that poor fortune teller guy killed onscreen by Reimu.

Anyway, back to the Marisa death thing, as I've mentioned, it's unlikely ZUN planned this in advance way back considering Comiket's Touhou day is usually on Day 2 up until recently where it's on Day 1. But, as Super Vehicle-001 said, it's just a fun way to speculate while waiting for the game to be released.

Then again, Marisa does have Dead Anime Mom Hair.


Sorry for deviating a bit, but I've been thinking about this for a while. It's that Kosuzu doesn't really fit in tone with the rest of FS. I may be misremembering things/insane, but here's my two cents.

Kosuzu is basically fairly happy-go-lucky, innocent (though she can be manipulative), and cute. A trademark of characters from cute slice-of-life anime. However, in stark contrast with this, FS also boasts some of the more terrifying/monstrous designs for its non-human/youkai characters. Contrast the Chupacabra◊ with Wa HH's Raijuu◊ for example.

Characterizations are also generally more serious compared to their Wa HH counterparts. Reimu especially is generally seen as more serious and less laid-back than in Wa HH. And her brutality is not played for laughs either.

In the first case, Reimu's aggressiveness is seen as a gag. In the latter case, her line precedes the moment she kills Mr. Fortune Teller.

Adding to that, FS is generally darker in terms of story. FS is not a slice of life unlike the Fairies manga or Wa HH, it's more of a mystery/horror hybrid. But Kosuzu's status as manga protagonist really contrasts her character with the setting. Kosuzu expects things to go well for her (such as relying on Reimu to save her when the time comes), that I think her luck will eventually run out at some point. I believe ZUN intended this contrast in order to brutally subvert audience expectations later on. Whatever happens, I do not foresee FS having a happy ending.

Feel free to ignore my insane ramblings, but I really wanted to get this out of my chest ever since I started watching School-Live brutally subverting audience expectations.

edited 29th Jul '15 10:18:37 PM by Zansnae793

I really don't see why people make such a big deal about that. He was already dead. Since he'd killed himself. It was basically just sending a ghost back to the Netherworld.

...Most of those have nothing to do with the theory you're advancing

Ehhh, I think you're overstating how much FS differs from the other manga. Plenty of goofy stuff there. I expect things to more-or-less work out in the end

Except for the FS thing which I don't remember why I mentioned, they all point at "important stuff lying right ahead". And I'd consider Marisa's death to be a pretty important stuff.

edited 29th Jul '15 10:02:59 PM by SuperVehicle-001

Okay, of the now two pieces of support, we have foreshadowing for TH15 going to the moon, and TH15 going to the moon. I mean, yes, the game is hinting at some big things, but it has to do with connections elsewhere via the Mars rovers, dream world, and power stones, not anything particularly involving Marisa

edited 29th Jul '15 11:48:31 PM by Hylarn

If there's any focus on Marisa it probably won't be happening in the main games. I'm pretty sure we've learnt more about Reimu and Marisa from the side materials then anything mentioned in the shoot 'em ups.

Please, lads. It was Komachi that said that. All in all, it was probably just banter.

Well, in Touhou, those two are... pretty significantly related.

I'm kinda taking that as tongue in heek. And even if you do say Komachi's statement is accurate... it could have several meanings. For one, Marisa might want to die because dammit Lo LK is just so hard that suddenly death doesn't look quite so unappealing.

OR it could mean that Marisa's going to be offered the elixir of immortality, no strings attached, and she'll either refuse it (because she wants to die at some point), or less likely she'll take it and immediately regret it and then 'want to die.'

edit: Welp, mistranslation josses that. oh well.

Removed from the series, I agree. Killed? Dunno. I could see Marisa jiving as a ghost for a while (like, in an ending). Until she cheats a way back to life or something (probably in the same ending. Maybe the extra stage). Either way, it'd probably be taken very lightly. Like Yuyuko's attempted murder of Eirin. Or possibly even "just a thing that happens and is fixed" like "going to Makai" in UFO.

Still, super unlikely for even that, though.

Also, randomguess: The extra stage will be all about withdrawal from or addiction to Eirin's shady drug.

I'm reminded of an anecdote from a LARP I played in. A businessman sells his soul (to be collected in like a week or so) to a devil for ludicrous amounts of wealth, despite everyone advising him this is a bad idea. Because of course he doens't have a soul, that's supernatural nonsense.

Then he hangs around a bunch of mystics and sure enough the devil shows up to collect his due. Naturally, all these mystics don't much like devils and blow the thing apart.

Businessman has all the money and paid no price...

And I suspect Kosuzu will try and pull something just like that.

Also, TH 15 silhouette: Shinki.

edited 30th Jul '15 9:50:28 AM by Antimatter625

I write some fanfiction. Satori's Tale is done... but I'm not.

Its all whatever

Marisa already died in Perfect Cherry Blossom.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

Going back a ways to that bit about Kosuzu, I do have a theory as to what'll happen there: Basically, as an immortal being with book powers, she can take the Child of Miare's place as the keeper of the records, letting Akyuu enter the cycle of reincarnation normally and possibly avoid the need for an early death. I think this makes sense with FS emphasizing that Akyuu's existence is pretty shitty

edited 30th Jul '15 11:49:00 PM by Hylarn

Wow Hylarn, that is a very beautiful theory! I like it a lot. Combines the Kosuzu-Youkai-Thing and her friendship with Akyuu to create a Good Thing instead of Death and Drama

...of course, I have to be a spoilsport again :/ and state that as much as I like this, it will never happen in canon. That is way more Status-Quo-Shaking-Up than I ever expect to happen. I mean, I'm the wet blanket guy who still isn't even convinced that we'll ever even get a conclusion on the Kosuzu-Youkai-Thing (or the Kasen-Oni-Thing either, for that matter). Seriously, I LOVE love love Touhou, but it just doesn't do Epic Storyline Conclusions and Story Arcs of Friendship and Sacrifice.

This theory IS a lot closer to reality than certain other speculations that are floating around at the moment ;) And no misuse of the word "proof" :)

Too many capital letters Why do we even have capital letters?

But, uh, while this would be an unusually large change for something that isn't a retcon, we have had status quo changes before, and there was a recent reminder that Akyuu isn't long for this world

Anyway, art:

Youmu
Also Youmu
Heaven and earth in a pot
(Untranslatable pun)