It's a Gundam thread!

Regarding beam weapons, I'm with Night on this one. Everything both in the animation and out suggests that a certain level of reactor output in necessary even for e-cap powered beam weaponry. The Dom's beam scatter gun was little more than a glorified flashbang, useless against armor except for dazzling optics (though it apparently did a good enough job of that that the flash couldn't simply be filtered out by software, so that's something), and none of Zeon's other non-amphibious mobile suits had enough juice to power a beam rifle until the Gelgoog. The original GM just barely had the output for beam weapons; it could use beam sabers but had to make do with the cut-down "beam spray gun" instead of a proper beam rifle.

By the Gryps Conflict, older designs like the GM and the Zaku had been updated with improved generators and panoramic cockpits, resulting the Hizack (which, oddly, was able to operate either a beam rifle or a beam saber, but not both) and the GM II (which was literally just a GM with the cockpit and reactor swapped out — it's been suggested that the two different model numbers given for the GM II indicate whether it was a OYW-era GM upgraded to GM II specs or a factory-built GM II). This is actually fairly standard procedure for military equipment in the real world. It's cheaper and far more cost effective to update the engine and avionics of an existing airframe than it is to build an entirely new unit every time an improvement comes along. Of course, in Gundam (unlike the real world), a model more than a year or so old is hopelessly obsolete (consider how the GM II was largely relegated to rear-line duty even at the beginning of the Gryps conflict), so that sort of retrofit is somewhat uncommon in Gundam.

About beam weapon damage... well, all I can really say is that the animation is rather inconsistent on that point. We see everything from beam rifle shots causing catastrophic explosions even without seeming to hit the reactor directly (which would create a much larger boom than we typically see) to heavily-armored units (like mobile armors or The O in Zeta) No Selling beam shots without so much as scuffing the paint, even when the units in question supposedly don't have anti-beam coating. It mostly comes down to dramatic necessity.

You could go hunting for the Special Editions.

Special Edition doesn't really improve anything. Well it cuts alot of the stalling and dragging out, and clipshows which IS an improvement over the TV version, but if you've already seen the tv anyway there's really nothing new there to make it much better.

Then again neither is remaster for the most part. Strike Rouge Ootori's 1 minute fight scene IS awesome, but it's one minute. The clipshows being cut is also an improvement, but as mentioned, he's already watched the tv anyway.

You didn't think ditching the negative colors with flashbacks during that part when Athrun mistook Kira for an enemy in episode 1 was good?

I watched uptil episode 42 and then watched the final compilation movie because it apparently has a better finale. I did this when I first watched Destiny and also during my rewatch. I haven't actually seen the TV finale.

The ending of the TV series just barely resolves the battle before the credits roll, it gives absolutely resolution what so ever.

Well...yeah? Hence Destiny. Seed really doesn't resolve anything, save in the military sense. Political will doesn't change in any nation. The machinery that Zala and Azarel used is still there.

edited 8th Jun '15 1:02:19 AM by Night

I meant the final episode of destiny TV, it ends in a horrible spot. Final Plus however actually gives the show an ending and adds about 30 minutes to the series in addition to making quite a few changes.

edited 8th Jun '15 1:17:46 AM by Memers

No he means Destiny, where the original TV end is the infamous "Flawless Victory Pose" of team Kira floating there after Durandal's base blows up, and it ends there, with no explaination as to what exactly is going to happen with the chaotic mess the world became and what happens to Shinn and Luna, who are defeated and left sobbing on the moon and that's the last we see of them. Not to mention the many many Zaft forces loyal to Durandal who were left and could have continued the war.

Final Plus adds much needed closure, showing that all the nations made a peace agreement, and Lacus took over Plant's leadership peacefully with Durandal's support standing down. It also gives Shinn closure, with him making peace with his demons.

It also adds Athrun to the final confrontation with Kira and Durandal, I guess to make it more meaningful since Kira and Durandal hadn't met once and had little to do with each other, while Athrun and Durandal had. Although Athrun does nothing in that scene.

Special Edition and Remaster would both use the Final Plus ending, with Remaster breaking it into 2 episodes.

There's a bit of confusion here. Zeon didn't have beam rifles until the Gelgoog because they hadn't figured out E-CAP/PAC technology due to Minovsky's defection. There is a small amount of power required outside of what's necessary to create mega-particles, but that makes the lion's share of the demand, and the rest doesn't really matter unless you're packing something insanely huge like the original GM Sniper's gun (for the record, the GM Sniper Custom did just fine without a significantly improved powerplant - its upgrades were in more efficient armour and thruster design instead). The regular GM could use RX-78 beam rifles perfectly (and a number of them actually did so in Jaburo) - the problem was cost. Long-barrelled guns required larger, more complex I-field generators, so the Federation went for the cheap and cheerful spray guns and gave their Jims proper rifles if and when they had some lying around. In fact, the Ground GM had a beam rifle as its standard equipment.

The Hizack, meanwhile, was a reskinned Zaku F2 with the serial numbers filed off, as the first step in Anaheim's policy of giving its really good stuff to the AEUG and foisting its crappy leftovers on the Titans in order not to blow its cover. It did have an improved powerplant, but only by a measly four per cent.

Suit-mounted mega-particle guns were very different beasts. Zeon's aquatic suits managed to get beam rifle-tier power prior to the development of Zeon E-CAP designs by using their watery environment to cool themselves, cutting down their power requirements considerably. Other suit-powered mega-particle guns that could match an E-CAP/PAC weapon's performance did indeed take much longer to develop, and didn't really show up in force until the Gryps Conflict. I think it was actually Paptimus Scirocco who deployed the first ones.

edited 8th Jun '15 3:59:05 AM by Iaculus

So I am reading Gundam the Origin. Quite interesting actually, I am surprised they are establishing Amuro's newtype powers sooner.

So how does radiation protection work in Gundam? As far as I know, UC suits and late-CE Gundams are all nuclear powered.

Well they are self contained and most of them are nuclear fusion which has actually been noted as safer. Plus Normal Suits are still space suits so radiation protection is already there.

In the UC, it's professor Minvosky's gift to the world. Minovsky particles neutralize hard radiation completely and interfere with radio and microwave spectrums. Radiation shielding is a complete non-issue for a Minovsky reactor, to the point many aircraft in the UC including the White Base itself use air-breathing nuclear jet engines that work by passing environmental air through the reactor to turn it into superheated plasma to spray out the back for thrust. (Mobile suits, at least the ones that fought in the Zeon wars, appear to use more conventional rockets or jets.)

I suppose the N-Jammer Cancellers work in a similar way. From the Gundam wiki article I just looked up, they only create a small field for the reactor. Is that accurate?

Later ones too (prior to the F99, anyway), considering that the Unicorn once ran out of fuel.

Jets and Rockets for Space. Not enough gaseous particles to condense into plasma into Space.

Hey now that I think about it... Red Dwarf how well would that apply in Gundam? Because despite the artificial gravity, perfect holograms, cryo suspension and AI the Red Dwarf had some pretty realistic tech in it at first, at the very least for how the ship worked.

It used a particle scoop on the front to collect fissionable materials to power it's own reactors and it's own nuclear drives.

So do you think anyone in Gundam ever thought to do that?

Not sure about that. I suspect the Unicorn and some others aren't using rockets, but superheated plasma from their reactors; they just don't have the option to get more in space.

The suits we see in the One Year War and at least through Zeta are using liquid-fuel rockets, though.

I'm going to watch AGE because I like the idea of story spanning generations. Question is, what to do about Memory of Eden? All I know is that it isn't a compilation movie so I can't swap out to it like I did with Destiny's final movie.

Memory of Eden is, by all accounts, the best version of the story, but it's a really really bad story.

Being in the process of watching AGE myself, my advice to you is this: do not go into that dark place. Flee it.

I ended up loving Destiny despite the negativit surrounding it. I think I can handle it. :\

Same way I enjoyed Stardust Memory, despite multiple posters here insisting it's crap.

Granted, I enjoyed all Gundam shows I watched (except maybe Wing, which bored me). I'm a nut like that. Sue me (although it's not worth your while).

edited 8th Jun '15 2:22:49 PM by amitakartok

I like Destiny. (Actually, I like it more than Seed.)

I like Stardust Memory. (Quite a lot, admittedly mainly for Cima, who seems the only sane character in the whole thing but still. It's also damn pretty.)

AGE is exceptionally bad. If we're talking in terms of basic technical competence and achieving simple storytelling aims like evoking emotion, AGE is far and away the worst Gundam show ever made. If you put a gun to my head and force me to chose, I'll still watch AGE over Victory, but that's because I find Victory to be actively offensive. It's still better-written. At least Victory makes me feel things beyond a vague "did you do all the drugs, stroke out, and write this?"

edited 8th Jun '15 2:39:54 PM by Night

I actually liked Destiny too, AGE is just horrid I mean it is easily the worst Gundam series ever made by a mile.