It's a Gundam thread!

You're talking about the scene with the Acguy? Man, short as it is, that's one of the best fights in 08th MS Team. Short, brutal, and to the point. And with awesome lines by Eledore.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

And it actually managed to make an Acguy look dangerous, which is one of the biggest achievements in the franchise.

I totally thought it was a Z'Gok, but yeah.

Anyway, I'm content to just leave the 08th MS Team here, and move on to War in the Pocket. Unless I really really need to watch episode 12.

....do I?

edited 24th May '15 11:03:22 PM by EvaUnit01

If you're into Child Soldiers that is.

All Gundam are about Child Soldiers though.

Aren't all the protagonists between 15-16? That still makes them underage and certainly they have no place in a war zone.

Depends on you want to see for the ending.

I wouldn't consider it bad but just not needed.

*4: Can't even tell the huge difference between the z'gok and acguy, shame on you.

Feels pointless, the end of 11 is enough of a ending.

So I recently watched 0080 War in the Pocket and my thoughts are.

It wasn't awful, it was a nice little series that basically showed the horrors of war on a different level. I also really loved the Mobile Suits shown in it, I don't get what it is about the OVA series GMs but I just like them better than what's seen in the anime series. Except for Build Fighters.

Hey so I hate to break it to you but Kou is actually legal. So's Christina. So's Shiro (Shiro is 23!)

Probably there are others. Still, you've got a point. I remember the one scene in Wing near the beginning that actually showed an OZ character standing next to the Gundam pilots in the same frame; Noin next to Trowa and Heero. She towered over Heero, like two heads taller at least. Trieze was similar introducing Heero to Epyon.

edited 25th May '15 11:11:09 AM by Night

Nous restons ici.

Shiro is 23? The hell is he doing on a battlefield, he should be in an old folks' home.

Domon was 21... wait Master Asia was middle aged.

And Amuro continued to pilot through his 20s to his 30s.

So, speaking of 08th MS Team, how do people here feel about Ginias?

It's been a while since I watched the series so feel free to tell me why I'm actually full of shit but I remember thinking just how random this guy was. For a show that's from point of view of the regular soldiers having the main villain be a Mad Scientist with big bag weapon of mass destruction who doesn't seem to really give a shit about Zeon just seemed really out of place to me, atleast from thematic standpoint (maybe it was about how war makes you crazy? because that didn't really happen with anyone else). And beyond that I just plain couldn't care about this guy. I didn't feel sorry for him nor did I really hate him. I get that he's important for Aina's part of the story but that doesn't he had to be the way he was.

Funnily enough I felt he fit right in. Especially after watching the original series and reading about the comparisons of Gihren to Hitler.

Ginias was another Scientist working on a super weapon that Gihren promised would win the war, when we all know it wouldn't work that way.

Honestly, the only real reason he's there is because of Aina, and the only reason Aina's there is to provide Shiro's romance. Shiro and Ainas' romance is, for better or worse, the centerpiece of 08th MS Team, and Ginias was thus created so as to try and give Aina a life of her own. The problem is that in so doing, you've now got a character who has even less of an independent existence than Aina did. Maybe they should've just axed the romance, including Aina. Instead of having some great big super-weapon for the team to go up against, just could just have them do their part in the war, and give more focus to the other members of the team. As for Shiro's eventual desertion, you don't need a romance for that. Have the team bring in a Zeon prisoner, and then have Shiro talk to the prisoner, who turns out to be sympathetic, and then is treated like crap by some rather aggressive interrogators. Shiro starts to think differently about the Federation/Zeon conflict, and after seeing the Federation commmit some rather unfavorable acts, deserts out of disgust. And there you go; no need for Aina or Gineas, and you've still got your anti-war message.

edited 25th May '15 1:44:18 PM by kkhohoho

Did the show ever made that point tho? Because I would actually like it if he was a Gihren fanatic but like I said, I don't remember him actually giving a shit about Zeon's victory or Gihren. It as all about his mother issues.

Speaking of Gihren, I think the reason I actually like that little mustache twiller more than some other people is because of his death. If they realised the original plans and made him the final boss with his own big awesome mecha, then I would propably hate him as much as others but him going out like a bitch - not in a fight against good guys (none of which had any emotional connection to him), heroicly foiling his plans after he almost destroys them and stuff like that but getting shot by someone he didn't give a second thought for something he was personally responsible for, who immediately replaced him - that I thought was very fitting and plesantly suprising. Yeah, I'm essentially giving credit for something they made up at the last minute as they went along but damn it, they made it work.

Which makes me wonder if Jamitov getting offed by Scirocco in Zeta was meant to invoke (am I using that word right) that. It didn't really work for me tho, mostly since despite Gihren having rather simplistic character, atleast he had A character.

Originally, Amuro was to kill him off in a gunfight.

Actually, it's not really about his mommy issues so much as about his vision issues; he's all "I MUST FINISH PROJECT" and "NO USE TO PROJECT, DESTROY IT". I don't think he thought the Apsalus was his mom; but it was his world, the thing he thought would fix everything. If he could just finish it, everything would be all right, Aina would love him (hence why he included a seat for her), he would have the esteem and respect of his peers, he would be rewarded by Zeon, etc.

In actuality the Apsalus would probably have been shot down in transit by Federation aircraft, either conventionally or by suicide-crashing it, or killed by the defenses of Jaburo. For its attack to succeed would have required significant supporting arms to suppress threats, many of which would be effectively on a suicide mission as they'll probably destroyed along with Jaburo. The Apsalus project was probably a costly boondoggle from the start.

But Ginias believed in it. That belief was not rational, and ultimately destroyed him.

Nous restons ici.

Ginias is just another illustration of the madness that permeates the Zeon command structure, and the degree to which those within it are insulated from outside influences and scrutiny. Ginias is a madman, who should never have been allowed near anything more dangerous than feather pillow, yet here he is, in control of an incredibly expensive research project involving WMDs. He's slowly losing what little sanity he's got, and his physiognomy is breaking down to boot, but he's a Rear-Admiral who has Gihren's backing, and there's no getting rid of him without a bodycount.

Over at 0080 Colonel Killing is another example of this. He's not as outright crazy as Ginias but his disregard for the lives of the men serving under him, and the orders coming from above him is so extreme that he should not, by any rights, have achieved the position that he currently holds. Yet again, the Zeon command structure keeps him safe, and in position to do maximum damage to his subordinates.

All of this of course, traces right back to Gihren, and to a lesser degree, his siblings, most notably Kycilia, none of whom have any interest in a chain of command that could ever see any of them replaced.

In regards to that, would Gihren have really cancelled the Apsalus project, or did Kellerny really lie to Ginias about it?

edited 25th May '15 7:46:40 PM by HallowHawk

I dunno... Gihren really liked his super weapons.

Given that Zeon was suffering setbacks on every front, even Gihren may have realized that money could be better spent on other things. Hell, given that the entire region was slowly being regained by the Federation, they may have had to cancel it, not because of money, but because the lab building it was about to become Federation property.

SICK AND TWISTED EVIL FUCK NEEDS TO DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DI- oh, wait, he's dead. Okay, on to the next UC bugfuck psycho.

I like Ginias because he's a somewhat tragic figure. He's clearly not well, physically or mentally, and he belongs in a hospital, not leading a super military project.

I think he cared for his sister but that grew to dependency and then it escalated to outright madness when, you know, he went mad.

Sorry, no. I just don't see it. I can't even Love to Hate that bastard, I just plain hate 'im.

Maybe I'm still too caught up in my emotions, and it will become clearer at some point in the future, but for now... no. The moment he pulled a gun on his own sister, he lost any sympathy I might have had for him. When he did so again, and actually pulled the trigger on her? I have... absolutely no words at all.