Shin Megami Tensei Series

Using demons in battle and killing demons should increase the Analysis level. Maybe the increases are just really small?

I'm playing the game right now and I can vouch that the Analysis levels are rising for me.

I think it is. It's just moving very slowly. Does it move differently depending on the demon? I'm trying to get an Erthys source right now.

I've heard the increase is based on turn count, so you could go to Antlia and just use Defend a bunch. I haven't tested it though, so I can't confirm.

Doing Co-ops boosts it much faster.

In which we rest on our victory's laurels, by which I mean do sidequests.

The last time Orochi got hacked to bits with a sword, at least it was drunk. Too bad it had to go through the ordeal sober this time.

By the way, just beat Horkos in Redux. That fight went really fast; he didn't even get to do any Grocery Runs.

I'm currently in the Womb trying to unlock more demons for fusion. That one section with all the pain tiles and pitfalls is giving me Etrian Odessey flashbacks.

I really dig Zeus' redesign. It's got what the French call a certain...I don't know what.

It took a while, but I finally got the Matador to show up in Carina and beat him.

For those looking to find him, I recommend prowling the area right before the Carina sector boss battle. There's a save terminal nearby where you can easily save your progress and a set of stairs nearby to reset the on-map enemy encounters.

I'm currently searching for Red Rider. The stairs between Eridanus 2F and 3F seem like my best option.

Edit: Ah, speak of the Devil and the Devil shall appear. Now just Trumpeter and Mother Harlot are left.

edited 21st May '18 8:43:10 PM by Eagal

I don't know if this has been mentioned since I have had a hard time keeping up with the thread since Redux released but, at her death, I noticed that Shekinah refers to the Great Will specifically. So I guess we can take this as further confirmation that the Axiom and the Great Will are not one and the same.

(though there is still the possibility of the Axiom being a translation goof, though if it isn't and it is decanonized I can be content).

Or it's, y'know, different universes same concepts but different names and some differences.

Like Cognition and Observation.

Or how Canopus is meant to be Devil Survivor's 2 Great Will equivalent as a mindless alien jellyfish microbe.

edited 22nd May '18 12:46:56 AM by OmegaRadiance

Is there a recommended order for doing SJR's endings? Right now I'm on the Chaos path but I thought I'd try Chaos+ and then do Chaos later.

Observation?

Its a term that was used quite a bit in IV Apocalypse, I imagine you are not familiar with it since you seem be a little busy with the original SMT IV I think?

edited 22nd May '18 6:32:56 AM by dood9780

I think the English version used "Understanding". It's been a while since I played Apocalypse. Speaking of which I should probably go back and finish the Bonds route after I play through SJR.

I see. Yeah, still playing the original, but I did download IVA, and plan to play it as soon as I finish Vanilla IV.

Speaking of which, I did the choose a path maze recently, so I'm coming along well on my chaos run. Not looking forward to trying to get the remaining Fiends though. That's a massive bitch.

I honestly might not be able to pull it off, and could end up just moving on and not getting them. It's way too much trouble spending days and days trying to get one enemy to show up.

Yeah it didn't take long for me to mentally file away the Fiend fights as "Not Worth It".

Speaking of the Fiends, I remember that back when I was playing SMT 1 (The first game where the Fiends were a 1/256 chance random encounter in specific spots.) I found Daisoujou by complete accident and he completely wrecked me.

On the subject of the Great Will and the Axiom, I've mentioned it before earlier in the thread, but I'll mention it again here (apologies if you can't see the Japanese characters):

The Great Will and the Axiom are different things. Their Japanese names are different, and not just in a "different name for the same thing," since their Japanese names have completely different meanings.

The Great Will, as far as I know, has always been referred to as 大いなる意思 (ooinaru ishi). The "ishi" refers to the philosophical definition of Will.

The Axiom, on the other hand, is referred to as 大いなる理 (ooinaru li). The "li" part refers to a Neo-Confucian belief about how the underlying reason and order of nature is reflected in its organic forms. This is a very different definition from "ishi."

The only things these names have in common is the "ooinaru" part, and that's simply an adjective meaning "Great" (as in big).

I've double-checked the Japanese version of Shekinah's speech, and I can confirm that she uses "ooinaru ishi" to refer to the Great Will. "Ooinaru li" has only been used in Apocalypse as far as I know, so I'm treating the Axiom as something completely different than the Great Will.

edited 22nd May '18 8:01:57 AM by dragonfire5000

Ideas and concepts, hell even demons, have had their names changed between games sometimes even to fit a theme.

Like the Bels with Belzaboul and Beldr. Then you have Magatsuhi being the fancy food in Nocturne and serves the same exact purpose magnetite does.

Hell Atma Avatars and Personas are just different shades of the same idea. The true self kept hidden, it's merely the exact mechanics of how they work that is different.

edited 22nd May '18 11:44:36 AM by OmegaRadiance

At least with Belzaboul and Beldr, their new names don't have completely different meanings. Heck, Belzaboul is probably an alternate spelling of "Baal Zebul," spelled differently so '"Devil Survivor can have the "Bel-" theme. Basically, '"Devil Survivor just used an alternate name for the deity and spelled it differently.

"Will" and "Li," however, refer to completely different things. The two of them are not synonyms for each other. One refers to the choosing of one desire over various others and the other refers to the natural order of things.

As far as I can tell, every mention of the Great Will I've seen has always used 大いなる意思. I haven't been able to find the Japanese text for Nocturne, but I can confirm that Shin Megami Tensei II and Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey all use 大いなる意思.

EDIT: Found footage from Nocturne that confirms they also use 大いなる意思. Raidou Kuzunoha seems to mention the Great Will as a being worshipped in Catholic churches, but I haven't been able to find Japanese footage to see what term they use.

edited 22nd May '18 12:59:26 PM by dragonfire5000

It's during the trial to release the seal that imprisons Amatsu-Mikaboshi.

Speaking of Amatsu-Mikaboshi, I hope he appears in a mainline game. I could see him being a Vile demon, considering how he's often used as an antagonist in works.

Vile and non-Chaos-representative Tyrant demons certainly need more screentime

So how do I get the new endings? I've been to the bottom of Womb of Grief and beat the boss there, but Demeter blocks the room above her and says there's no reason to take that path. I've been all the way to the final boss. The wikia says Alex is supposed to appear but I've already tried fight the boss and Alex didn't show up.