Shin Megami Tensei Series

Part of it also seems to be that P3 and P4 were on consoles; there's a lot of Persona hate at /smtg/.

Though I still don't know why consoles specifically are so important.

edited 23rd Apr '15 4:58:32 PM by HamburgerTime

I don't get it myself. Wasn't SJ for the DS and didn't we know that there was going to be a SMT game for the 3DS since its launch?

limited money. not everyone can afford all the consoles they need.

People probably just want HD renders of Kaneko's work and stuff, which we're kinda getting in P5 but again, Persona.

SMT heroes really need therapy◊.

Oh noooo. ;_;

Neutral Ending? And no mention of Arthur?

Arthur whyyyyyyyy

You know I hope it starts being a trend with the AI being the heroine of mainline SMT games.

I liked it when Arthur did it, and I liked it when Burroughs did it.

edited 24th Apr '15 3:36:29 AM by OmegaRadiance

I have the weirdest fiction-crush on Burroughs.

she's got a nice voice.

i just wish the collection quest updates werent so disproportionately loud.

Arthur and Burroughs are fantastic examples of how A.I. can be compelling characters without going batshit insane and trying to nuke humanity into oblivion.

I absolutely adored her too.

Some sick Lucifer/Lady in Black fanart courtesy of NeoGAF.◊

Huh, very Metal Gear-y.

Y'know, thinking about it from the Persona thread, SJ is the only mainline game where Chaos is the conflict-driver, isn't it?

• SMTI: Conflict is started by Thor trying to invade Japan; Gotou was reacting to him.
• SMTII: Conflict is started by the Archangels being tyrannical pricks.
• SMTIII: Kagutsuchi (an agent of Law) and Hikawa (who has the most Lawful Reason) cause the Conception.
• SMTIV: The Archangels and Tayama each screw over one of the two cities.

its not like chaos has no role in causing the conflict in smt1 or 4, and in nocturne lucifer is actively benefiting from everything you do, which is why lucifer even shoves you into the picture in the first place.

edited 28th Apr '15 4:07:40 PM by Tarsen

Demi-Fiend also benefits from Lucifers actions as well.

He'd be dead without the parasite Magatama shoved into his eye.

Lilith at least has a influence in the current events of SMTIV, even if the actions of the Archangels and the dissatisfaction of the Casualries is what influenced the events that lead up to it.

Want to know what I'd like to see? A Neutral conflict-starter villain. Captain Jack is one of my favorite SMT villains because he explores something rarely touched on, the dark side of Neutrality; that is, pure selfishness. I really think a SMT game where the conflict is started by an evil, greedy corporate shark like Jack is an idea with potential.

Ogiwara in Majin Tensei II.

In his attempt to change the future he ended up setting up events that ensured the future would come to pass, including Naoki and his party opposing him on the Law/Chaos routes. Them hearing Ogiwara out is what breaks the cycle.

edited 28th Apr '15 4:14:07 PM by OmegaRadiance

wasnt hikawa pretty much acting purely out of selfishness?

sure, his ideal was law, but he did everything for no one but himself and he didnt give two shits about anyone else, using them purely as tools to further his goals, otherwise seeing them as obstacles to be eliminated.

At what point did Neutral become the go to "paragon" option? From what I understand, things were a little more evenhanded earlier on (though Law and Chaos still had their share of assholes and fanatics, of course).

SMTI. Neutral is still the "kill them all" faction, but Law and Chaos are presented as pretty much worse in every way.

SMTII relents on it (to the point where even the Law ending is more fulfilling, in a game that is probably the most anti-Law yet), but yeah.

It's not as much blatantly the best choice as in more recent games, but it was presented as the "harder but better" choice from the get go.

edited 28th Apr '15 4:28:28 PM by Otherarrow

up until SJ, neutral basically just meant killing everyone you see as far as i know.

wasnt exactly heroic but it usually helped.

then SJ basically had it be the only ending in the game where you succeed at the mission you've been given, and then devil survivor came around and basically made neutral the reset button but, is in the writers eyes better. and then 4 came along, and flat out turned it into the good route.

but maybe it started earlier than that.

Nocturne also had a "heroic Reset Button" Neutral ending.

Like I said, as early as SMTI it was presented as a "tougher but better" path, with the hero striving to walk the line between Law and Chaos and keep the two in balance, taking the good traits of both in forming his world.

Every other major character dies as you are forced to prune the radical segments of both, but Neutral is probably the best ending (which isn't saying much, since I found all of SMTI's endings kinda lackluster, but still)