Shin Megami Tensei Series

Riiiiiiight. I never got far enough in IV to go Fiend Hunting, but I've heard horror stories of it. I can't say that's a smart decision, but I doubt that'd be something they fix.

So I did some thinking and realized why Nocturne has five endings (not counting TDE) instead of the usual Law/Neutral/Chaos.

It's because all of the Reason endings are Law endings, from the viewpoint of that game. YHVH wants a world without free will, and each Reason ending results in exactly that, thus counting as a Law victory.

Hikawa's Reason of Shijima would result in everyone becoming an essential cog in the continuation of the universe, which results in Free Will being stripped of everyone. This is the most obvious Law victory.

Isamu's Reason of Musubi would result in everyone receiving their own personal Matrix where they hold dominion. This results in Free Will being stripped of everyone, because when your choices and decisions have no affect on others or the universe at large, can you really be said to have made a choice at all? This is an almost "Neutral" Law victory.

And finally, Chiaki's Reason of Yosuga would basically turn everyone into either "slave" or "master." This is probably why the Seraphs liked it, though. They weren't playing against type; they knew that in the event this Reason came to pass, YHVH would grant them the power to be lords and overseers of the weak humans. They would force us into doing what YHVH wanted, and because in that world the strong ruled, there would be nothing we could do about it. This is a "Chaos" Law victory, but it's still a Law victory.

edited 10th Jul '14 5:57:24 AM by Frishman

That idea has actually been mentioned and kicked back-and-forth in this Thread sometimes in the past.

Oh.

Well now I just feel stupid again.

Don't.

It might not be anything new, but it still does not changes the fact that you were able to figure it out on your own and went into great detail why.

And besides... it is always good to resurrect interesting topics once in a while, we can always try to find something new in it.

Yeah, I've been here for months and never heard of that theory, so it's good that you were able to bring it up because it's pretty cool.

we havent talked about it in roughly about a year. we mainly talked about alignments and endings back when fakeangelBR was around, and even then, everyone more or less agreed on nocturnes endings, and we mainly just argued about devil survivor 2's endings. (and even in that case the arguement was always about what we kept calling chaos or law endings actually being based on stars rather than the chaos law axis)

edited 10th Jul '14 8:04:18 AM by Tarsen

Hence why having new people around is important.

They bring new questions, and with that new topics and perspectives. It helps breath new life into something.

I always saw it as like, Nocturne was kinda deconstructing the alignments and the character tropes presented in the first two games.

The three Reasons, though Law in the end, are basically radical and warped versions of the three alignments (with a Law edge of course, since the Great Will is running the show). Likewise the three "alignment heroes" are set up one way, then turned another (rich, sheltered Chiaki is set up similar to the Law Hero, rebellious Isamu is set up similar to the Chaos Hero, and Hikawa is from the Cult of Gaia...but Chiaki develops into warped Chaos, Isamu into warped Neutral, and Hikawa was warped Law from the beginning.)

Then we have Ms. Takao, who is set up like the Heroine and Hiroko, a female companion who will "be your strength". However, in effect, the Heroine and Hiroko basically followed their MCs around and had little agency of their own, and indeed Ms. Takao flounders about aimlessly following Aradia without actually understanding her, hoping that Aradia would just kinda give her the Reason she seeks eventually. Aradia preaches Freedom and choice, but Ms. Takao makes few (if any) choices of her own will.

Heck, the Demi-fiend being half demon can be seen as commentary on how, as SMT Guy and Aleph went about their stories, they ended up killing anyone who got in their way without remorse, making them little better than the demons they fight.

...Nocturne is really important OK?

edited 10th Jul '14 9:24:15 AM by Otherarrow

I've always thought so, having read the summaries of the first two games. Maybe that's why they didn't make another main series game for close to a decade; hard to top the deconstruction of the deconstruction of fantasy RPG's.

I remember the commentary video Atlus made of Nocturne being mentioned in /smtg/ ages back, and I believe it was mentioned they wanted Takao to be the heroine, but her role to be one that is lost and confused and not stand by your side like the previous ones.

Also here's this link about If... and Devil Summoner that got posted in smtg a week ago.

MTIISN news: I've gotten to Sidepolis and figured out how to get the Neutral Route. You answer the second option of Ogiwara's first two responses, and the first option of the third and fourth responses.

Anything else than that ends with you going Law/Chaos and the characters ingame alignment changing. You'll know you are on the right track as Ogiwara explains details of what's going on, like DIO.

Actually there was a discussion about this awhile back in /smtg/. I believe the answer was they considered the original games a trilogy and Nocturne was to be part of a new trilogy, which didn't succeed since it didn't sell as well.

edited 10th Jul '14 12:31:37 PM by OmegaRadiance

Just redownloaded Soul Hackers. Are there any important tips that I should be aware of, like items that could be lost forever, or incredibly dangerous bosses/areas/enemies?

when given the option to, call hitomi sexy. it gives nemissa her best moveset.

You're kidding me.

What does that have to do with anything?

The options in that question determine her stats. "Sexy" actually is statistically better than the others.

In regards to skills- Describing her as cute means Nemissa will learn Fire and Expel skills primarily, cool means she'll mostly get Ice and Death, and sexy yields an Electricity focused skillset that also gets Almighty spells earlier than the other two.

edited 11th Jul '14 11:44:11 PM by Pulse

Okay, I think I can safely say Hell Biker is the first Fiend to actually give me a challenge.

Mostly since I can't just nullify both his elements this time with the demons I have.

Hell Biker? Are we talking in Nocturne?

Just throw up a Force resistant party. Like, seriously, he HAS a unique Fire move alongside his unique Force one, but he rarely uses it in comparison.

And his unique Force move is basically "Tornado, plus it undoes buffs" so it's not that impressive.

If we aren't talking Nocturne, OK fine, you got me, bu Nocturne Hell Biker is kinda a chump, even compared to the other Fiends.

edited 16th Jul '14 1:53:33 PM by Otherarrow

It was Nocturne. I guess I just put too much emphasis on nullifying fire on my party. Thought he used that more than Hell Exhaust.

I thought he did too and set up at least the Demi-fiend accordingly, but nope. He just used Tornado+Dekaja move over and over.

So I picked up where I left off in SJ, and Sector Carina is kicking the shit out of me.

Any suggestions on what I should have at this point?

Same as usual.

Fuse your demons.

Use buff/debuffs.

keep an eye out for secret doors, and fuse someone who can use poison. not necessary to main it but its useful to use it to poison one of the bosses's grunts. the boss will then eat them and get poisoned himself.

Yeah, I been doing that and I continually don't get very far from the front door.

I'll keep that in mind if I can ever get there.

edited 20th Jul '14 9:46:26 AM by Frishman

I always forget that this is a thing and always smile when I remember.

Bonus.