Kingdom Hearts

I just figured it was something Mickey did in his early days and brought Donald and Goofy along.

It's never going to be brought up again, so don't think about it too much.

I don't think it is. Neither is the Symphony of Sorcery.

Symphony of Sorcery is easy enough to explain timeline-wise - it's when Mickey was training under Yen Sid.

But why would we be shown events from Mickey's past if this is supposed to be a Sleeping World that fell to the darkness shortly before the events of the first game? What's more, how do these events even fit into Mickey's past? It's clearly not any part of Disney Castle, and Pete's actions are not easy to reconcile with anything seen or said about him in KHII or BBS.

I get that this is, in the broader context, a minor gripe. But it illustrates to me just how much DDD doesn't even care about the Disney stuff to make it even vaguely consistent with the series continuity.

edited 16th Dec '17 8:10:31 PM by DrDougsh

x2 I mean Symphony of Sorcery also raises the question of why is Yen Sid's tower in a Sleeping World.

The Mysterious Tower is a world that can move through the Sea of Stars and hang on to other worlds - like it did with Twilight Town for example. So I would assume the Symphony of Sorcery is simply a world the Tower was at one point connected to.

The problem is that we start in the Tower. And that world never went to sleep. Its the world we start the game in.

Country of the Muskateers has the same problem since, if its a past of Disney Castle between Timless River and the present, Disney Castle NEVER got conquered by heartless and that is an explicit plot point in KH 2.

I'm just going to go with "SHUT UP AND PLAY THE GAME" and "This was the least well thought through Kingdom Hearts Game" as my explanations.

It's part of the dream not part of the Sleeping World. Jiminy and Pinocchio haven't fallen into darkness and are not in the Sleeping Worlds yet they are still part of their world's dream. I presume it is the same thing with the Tower just on a larger scale.

That... would be really nice to be explained.

"Explain damn it!" could be this franchise's subtitle though...

The Grid does play under different rules than Country of the Musketeers. Xemnas (I think) states outright that Sora is mistaken to think that (his version of) The Grid is a dream. Displaying how far off of the intended path this little exam has gone.

edited 17th Dec '17 4:36:28 PM by Enlong

He suggests that, but it never really gets brought up again. So, I just end up confused as to what I'm supposed to pull from this. Are they dreams? Or are we not even asleep? Are these 'real' worlds? If so, how does Country of the Muskateers work? Are there now multiple Mickeys?

I'm more confused by where the climax of the game takes place.

Sora's Heart.

Sora's story takes place in the Sleeping Worlds, and Riku's takes place in the Sleeping Worlds within Sora's heart (since Sora's heart fell to darkness- hence Darkness within Darkness).

This is foreshadowed in the very first world where you find out that the timers on Neku and Shiki's hands are different despite the fact they should be the same (showing that Riku's story takes place "after" Sora's, since Riku can only be in the world after Sora fell to darkness, but it takes place at the same time because Sleeping Worlds dont exactly care about time).

Anyway, I digress. Point is that the climax of the game takes place in Sora's heart, which has been manipulated by the Xehanorts.

Then how did the Xehanort Club get in there.

And its that 'Sleeping Worlds don't care about time' that makes everything confusing. Sora and Riku interact. They're shown standing next to eachother in Traverse Town's first ending.

If this is the story they wanted to tell and the rules they set for themselves, the way they told the story makes it really difficult to follow.

Do they interact? I was under the impression that Joshua was talking to them both at the same time in both versions of the world - when they appear next to each other, the one who isn't in that world is all transparent and shit.

I figured Riku could see the transparent Sora but they just weren't in the same 'world'. Either way, if they're both hearing the same speech from Joshua at the same time, that could get confusing.

I THINK the Riku pre-boss cutscene shows him following the transparent Sora too.

edited 17th Dec '17 10:46:18 PM by InkDagger

Here's the scene in question.

...Wait, hang on, I think I might be lost here. What's the point of confusion, again?

The confusion overall is that its hard to tell what is taking place when and where in relation to each other. The explanation is that 'Sora's story takes place first, followed by Riku's. This is shown when Joshua looks at the time difference between the hand stamps'.

However, there are clearly times where Sora and Riku's stories seem to be taking place at the same time, that cutscene being one of them. Both Sora and Riku are standing next to eachother, if just transparent from the other, and they nod and acknowledge each other's presence. So, how could Sora be reacting to a Riku that 'hasn't happened' yet?

Heck, why are some of the TWEWY crew in one timeline, but not the other? And they switch later on too? I can't remember if that one was explained. And why does this only happen in Traverse Town and no other world?

Traverse Town is somewhat special, in that the TWEWY cast didn't originate there.

Personally, I think that the interactions are sort of...echoes, as it were? Does that make sense?

The climax seems to take place in the real version of TWTNW, or possibly a version of it in the past (since basically everyone is time traveling to some extent in 3D, including Sora and Riku). The Organization rigged Sora's locations from the start, forcing his path towards TWTNW. Him winding up in worlds that weren't meant to be in the exam (The Grid) was one example of their hand in things.

Sora enters the world (the real, physical one), at the location of Memory's Skyscraper, and is put to sleep by the Organization. Xehanort then does his little speech and puts him into further layers of a dream. That's why Riku is able to find Sora's sleeping body when he explores Sora's dream; he's fallen further into sleep than the layer of the dream that Riku exists in. The battle with Xhenaort as Riku happens in the physical world, after Riku is able to leave Sora's dream.

The only thing I don't get is why the circle of Organization members who surround Sora at the end of his first cutscene tehre number 12. What, did Braig say his big speech, then jump up, fire a ring of shots, and teleport himself into the ring with one of his bullets?

edited 17th Dec '17 11:47:45 PM by Enlong

It’s Braig, he’s that extra.

But if the Grid is real, then how did Sora even get there if he's been asleep the whole time? For that matter, how did Riku get there if he's been inside Sora's dream the whole time, and why would there be two separate versions of the world if it's real and not a dream? Uuugggghh! Why did they even write that line suggesting the Grid is real? They could have just rationalised the Grid as being part of whatever world Ansem got the original copy Encom system from before it was swallowed by darkness but then the game has to throw this shit at us. It's like the game is deliberately being as convoluted and confusing as possible.

Wait the Grid isn't the Sleeping World of the original Tron world?

It seems more difficult than it is. The world that Sora visits is real, but since he is still in a state of sleep, he has access to the Dream Eaters and the Sleeping Keyholes (similar to how Traverse Town and The World that Never Was work). Riku is inside Sora's dream, so that version of the world is not real.