Questionable Content

I can just imagine showing someone that last panel with no context.

Gotta love Marten not only rolling with the silliness of the situation but actively contributing.

Singular they has been grammatically correct since Shakespeare. I was even taught it in school. (I'm not sure this is true in American English)

Backlash against it is up there with propositions at the end of sentences. Resistance to it has largely been artificial, and never really reflected how people talk.

"themself" however, is grammatically incorrect. And I'm glad we're rectifying that to make it the norm.

Its funny, people always give me shit for asking to be referred to by they, but they have no problem calling me "it" behind my back, and that's even worse grammatically!

And, yes, some of you thought it was a leap, me thinking Tilly was non-Cis, you underestimated my power.

Is the "they" actually singular, since the appropriate accoord for verbs is "second person singular+all persons plural" (i.e., "they are")? To me, it sounds more like nonbinary and unknown-gender persons are promoted to plural.

edited 1st Dec '17 4:12:03 AM by Medinoc

Huh, yeah, I (ESL) would on first guess use "do they?" and "they are" instead of "does they?" and "they is" for singular they. But whatever, I got over the fucking weirdness of universal plural-you So this can go with it anyway.

Though with the forming habit of using they as default, it kinda results in everybody being pluralised.

edited 1st Dec '17 4:26:01 AM by Adannor

Technically "you" is plural. We used to have other words for it (thee, thou, ye etc) but they all died out.

It's a plural word used for singular people (along with groups of people). Similarly they is a word used for groups and singular people, so even singular reference is free to keep plural grammar around it because english doesn't give a fuck.

And since "you" also uses "are", any argument against singular "they" is equally applicable to singular "you".

So if anyone complains about it you can admonish them for not using thee and thou.

Except in Texas, where "you" is singular and "y'all" is plural.

I prefer "do they" and "They are" even when referring to singular people. Grammatically it feels weird, but it's more natural to say that "does they" and "They is"

I’ve never understood why English lost thee/thou in common use. Sad reduction in precision, if you ask me. Points to Texas for regaining it.

Though speakers of some languages will surely now be noting that we don’t distinguish between first person plural encompassing the person being addressed, and first person plural excluding them. We could benefit from that.

In Chinese, which word is which varies by region, leading to very interesting miscommunications. :C

X4

I am particularly fond of the "All of y'all" frequently used by my relatives in the South.

edited 1st Dec '17 6:58:28 AM by GutstheBerserker

Quite frequently structured as "All o' y'all assholes".

"All o' y'all assholes quit squabblin for one goddam second!"

In Spanish we not only have singular and plural yous, we also have formal/respectful and informal yous (and knowing when to use each of them, especially when dealing with professors and bosses and the like, can get to be a bit of a hassle). And an antiquated plural you that only Spaniards and period pieces use.

VOSOTROS?

In Finnish we've never had gendered pronouns to begin with. Gets rid of quite a few issues discussed here in the thread.

edited 1st Dec '17 7:50:26 AM by Xeroop

That's the one. It's like having an entire country of people using "thee" and "thou" and "thine".

Vietnamese has pronouns change depending on your relation to the other person that sometimes change with gender, sometimes do not. If you're a man, you'd use different pronouns for an old lady, a woman, a young woman, and a girl. But you'd use the same pronoun for a girl as you would a boy. But not the same one for a woman as you would a man.

In Chinese, all singular pronouns, including "it" are spoken exactly the same, but written differently.

Makes novel adaptations of audio-present dramas very very tricky.

edited 1st Dec '17 8:21:05 AM by blkwhtrbbt

In French, the biggest issue is that the third-person plural is gendered and heavily favours men.

For example, if there is a group of women, you would refer to them as "Elles" as in "Elles sont en train de parler."

However, if there is at least one man in a group, then you have to use the male version of the pronoun. So it would be "Ils sont en train de parler."

Even if there are 99 women and one man, then you still gotta use "Ils".

Also, as I mentionned above, since we don't have an equivalent to the neutral third-person singular "they", it's very hard to try to remain gender-neutral in normal speech without introducing new words, which francophones tend to balk at.

This was quite humorously mentioned in the comic Y: The Last Man, if I remember correctly. The protagonist referred to French as a very "chauvinistic language"...and I tend to agree.

edited 1st Dec '17 8:41:36 AM by GutstheBerserker

@19611

My understanding is that it has to do with excessive politeness. "Thee" and "thou" were meant to be used only with family, or God. The Society of Friends still uses it in that context, to refer to the fellow members of their community.

Nope. Thee and Thou are used with people of lower rank, or people you are informal with. Jesus can say it to you. You absolutely cannot say it to him.

I love how in 9 years of Spanish, from 5the grade straight through college, every teacher just sort of ignored vosotros as if nobody ever used it.

Huh. We were taught Vosotros alongside everything else. Not that I remember too much of my Spanish classes anymore, though.