Freefall

I think the implication is that EU would splurge for the expense of an express immediate shipment of a new top guy on Jean if they felt that Ishiguro has completely screwed the pooch. He might be inoculated from immediate oversight, but I can't imagine he's completely free of it.

Yeah, but the latency involved in that kind of transaction is pretty high. An incompetent executive can do a lot of damage in the two years or so that it would take to replace him.

Well, the two-year assumption is predicated on one idea - there is absolutely no way that Ecosystems Unlimited would (or could) set up an emergency ship if they felt that Jean needed an intervention.

I think a one-year assumption is more apt - I suspect that EU could spring for a DAVE ship to send a replacement for Ishiguro if they think that it'd be less of an expense than giving him another year to run things. Though that said, even one year is still a long time for potential catastrophe to strike.

Stalling much?◊

Problem is that the superiors must be contacted first to learn of the situation, so this will require two FTL ship visits.

I wonder if Ishiguro ever watched Star Wars. You know that quote, the more you tighten your grip, etc.

And not if only they had a fast ship that could make the "Kessel run in less than twelve parsecs"?

Well, yes, there would have to be two FTL ship visits to replace Ishiguro - one to alert EU's superiors that he needs replacement, and another to deliver the replacement.

That said, while we know that there's currently a one-year gap between regular visits, there's nothing saying that said gap is a hard-and-fast technological limitation. If the reason that the ships have a one-year gap between visits is purely financial (i.e. it's too expensive to send them more frequently on a regular basis), then it would logically follow that EU could send another ship much earlier if they felt that the expense was worth it (such as, it'd be more expensive to let the colony fail than to send a replacement for Ishiguro).

The reason it's a one year gap is because the ship circles a route like a bus. There are presumably many ships, but there is one and only one currently at Jean. Even if they flat out derail the currently hanging ship away from it's route to send a message, it will be far too long for a situation so volatile.

..Although actually, didn't it leave already? They are cut off completely until it circles back. Nobody knows they need to send a message.

edited 29th Sep '15 6:32:22 AM by Adannor

Rocks and hard places◊ - The discussion continues.

Unplanned workers◊... really? I really would have figured that they'd budgeted for robots from the beginning. And, much as studies have proven with immigration debates, introducing larger numbers of people does mean they may take up more resources and take over some jobs, but they also introduce more people who will consume products and services, so it's good for the economy, at the least.

And there's a part of me that says that that handshake at the end inspired a million yaoi writers... I wonder if that's a genre Dvorak and Qwerty have dabbled in.

Think of it as making your own customers.

Well you'll need to bust some education before robots really get into the "consuming products and services" thing

And they probably planned to pack them up and recycle once the planet was built up.

However, the worries about upkeep are kinda silly because they are handling their own upkeep just fine right now.

edited 1st Oct '15 9:13:38 PM by Adannor

It's an entire sentient race that is (as things currently stand) wholly dependent on EU to survive. Thus, if a robot wants to keep going, it has to buy from EU.

Remember when Sam said that humanity has its greatest money-making scheme ever in operation? I think he's the best hope to get a positive reaction from the EU brass.

They planned for 3-laws robots that would do their terraforming job and then scrap themselves, not for Bowman brains that would want a role in the growing society.

But yes, they add both supply and demand to the system.

edited 1st Oct '15 11:26:02 PM by Tangent128

Currently they are overwhelmingly on the supply side though.

Heh, and I was wrong about how Qwerty and Dvorak are involved◊. You know, much like the Edge and Blunt situation, I don't know if this is going to provide a convincing argument for robot sentience or destruction of robot sentience...

I don't think that Raibert was ready for open discussion of rebellion◊. Max is basically openly stating "there are loopholes to the robots obeying humans and I'm teaching them how to use them."

A scary situation indeed◊.

Making something that can follow orders requires lots of Obvious Rule Patching because people will get creative.

edited 9th Oct '15 8:37:39 AM by AceOfScarabs

Letting any human order them around has always struck me as an atrocious idea anyway. Haven't these people heard of security?

Vetinari was savvy enough to make sure any Golems in his employ are 'instructed' to only take instructions from duly constituted authority.

Layered security to restrict certain orders to higher level of authority sounds like it would work. That way you can still give minor instructions to a robot, but the really important/difficult orders will be restricted to their handlers, officers of the law, and similar authority figures. Of course, you'd need to update the list regularly.

edited 9th Oct '15 9:13:03 AM by AceOfScarabs

It's mentioned several times that "obey all humans except in emergencies" is the default, it's just that most people never bother to change that. It was a joke at the time, but considering how many robots there are compared to humans, it makes sense that most robots wouldn't really see the people they nominally belong to on a regular basis. Plus, the whole planet still has a "small town" feel, so they don't worry about security.

edited 9th Oct '15 12:48:41 PM by Discar

One can not take selfies with God◊.

That's wisdom there, although I fear that Raibert will see the signs of religion in the robots as more destabilizing influences.

"Thou shalt have no gods before the Ecosystems Unlimited board of directors."