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Except, as has been mentioned several times, Incredibly Lame Pun was created for the sort of use it's getting, making them all good wicks.
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The crowner matters because if consensus favoured keeping Incredibly Lame Pun as the pothole magnet, then potholes to it would no longer need to be "fixed."
Actually, I'm pretty sure they stay unless consensus favors changing/deleting them.
Sure, that's what it once was, but what it is now, an in-universe trope about pointing out bad puns, is what the problem is. The two uses conflict with one another. Not to mention this wiki does not benefit from having a designated sinkhole target for puns in the first place.
If we have no consensus to keep them, we don't need to keep them. Especially since, well, they're sinkholes. Seriously, someone give me one good reason to keep these idiotic sinkholes.
edited 17th Nov '11 9:35:49 PM by Insignificant
I've just been changing them to Pun pending this decision. I'm assuming it'll end up redirecting to the correct page, whatever we decide the correct page is, and it's easier to change the target of a redirect than it is to change a bajillion wicks.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
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While we are being indecisive about this, some users are still using Incredibly Lame Pun as a pothole for puns while other users are cleaning up after them.
That wastes each side's effort. Obviously, that isn't good enough. We need to come to a solid decision on this. Either it is supposed to be a pothole magnet or it isn't.
- If it is, then set that out as the official word on this and tell those "fixing" potholes to stop.
- If it isn't, then go full-speed-ahead on the cleanup and tell those potholing to stop.
edited 18th Nov '11 4:28:09 AM by HiddenFacedMatt
"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart
I could be wrong, but I thought the decision had been reached earlier that we are going to keep some page for potholing puns to. The decision then needed to be made whether we were going to leave this page as the pothole magnet or switch it to a different one, which the attached crowner was supposed to decide.
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The latter is the decision I was referring to.
edited 18th Nov '11 4:02:05 PM by HiddenFacedMatt
"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart
I personally don't see everyone's obsession with the idea that everything on this wiki has to make total sense; "sinkholes must be destroyed" is kind of absurd in the context. It's used so much that running through to find out which wicks are actually IL Ps and which are merely "hi, this is a pun" is going to be a nuts proposition. And frankly, this is a fairly harmless difference; it doesn't even qualify as an in-joke. So come on people. Relax.
Nothing that you said made any sense whatsoever. "Sinkholes must be destroyed" is not "absurd" in any context. It's a policy. And sinkholes are anything but "harmless".
You can't just reject legitimate use because you don't like it. They're not sinkholes unless and until the crowner or Eddie decides they are.
As long as Incredibly Lame Pun is defined as an in-universe trope, the use isn't legitimate at all. It doesn't matter what it once was. If a trope is redefined, it's redefined and the old definition disappears. So if the Incredibly Lame Pun potholes are to be legitimate the actual trope needs to be moved to a different page.
And I still have to ask why we need a page just for pun potholing in the first place.
Also, since the page's purpose was to have a place to redirect incorrect potholes to Incredibly Lazy Pun, and that page is now a Permanent Red Link Club member, we don't need this anymore.
edited 22nd Nov '11 6:37:06 PM by Insignificant
Claiming the original usage is invalid is just question begging - that's exactly what we're here to decide!
It's not "question begging" (whatever that's supposed to mean). It's a fact. If a trope's usage does not match it's current definition, it's misuse. It is not valid to claim that the use is legitimate just because that's how the page used to be defined. It doesn't work like that. The only way the use would be legitimate is if we were to restore the original definition. The potholes would still be stupid, pointless, and in-jokey, but a least they'd be correct wicks.
You make the argument "potholing a pun to Incredibly Lame Pun is misuse". The purpose of this thread is to decide whether or not that's true. You are assuming a conclusion, which is the very definition of begging the question.
My personal opinion is that if we're going to have a place to pothole puns to, it might as well be the same one it's always been.
Yeah, unwritten rule number one: follow all the unwritten procedures. - Camacan
I am not assuming anything. I am stating a fact. Whether or not a trope is being used correctly as per its definition isn't a subjective matter. It's an easily provable objective fact. All of these potholes are just gratuitous pun potholing. The page says an an in-universe trope. That makes the wicks incorrect as per ILP's current definition. It is impossible to make a valid argument against that. What we're here to decide is whether or not ILP is to remain a Pothole Magnet for puns or not. And if it is, then the trope needs to be moved to a different page because the gratuitous potholes and the current definition conflict with one another.
Dragon Writer
ILP's use as a Pothole Magnet predates its current definition. That is also fact.
Crowner here is to determine whether the definition should be changed (back?) to match the majority usage, or whether said usage should be ruled misuse as relative to current definition.
edited 24th Nov '11 6:55:23 PM by Stratadrake
An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.
The current crowner doesn't say anything about changing ILP back to it's original definition. It should, though.
The options on the crowner should be "keep the Pothole Magnet and restore the original definition to avoid conflict with the current one, and move the actual trope to a different page" or "keep ILP's current definition and then either change the Pothole Magnet to something else or kill it entirely."
edited 24th Nov '11 7:05:17 PM by Insignificant
There's no reason why the same page can't be both a trope and a Pothole Magnet. At most the description needs a little tweaking to accommodate the fact.
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False. It is not okay a trope to be defined one way and potholed another. I've already stated the reasons why in my above posts.
Who ever said that the memetic potholes to Captain Obvious and Blatant Lies were legit? Those are sinkholes for the same reason the memetic potholes to Understatement were sinkholes.
edited 25th Nov '11 5:41:06 PM by Insignificant
Then the definition gets a tweak. Again, you're arguing the assumption the potholes are incorrect, which has yet to be decided.
We clearly don't have consensus to change the potholes to a new page. Should we create a crowner to decide whether potholing puns is considered permissible or not?
We could, but as much as I support the destruction of these potholes, if we've had enough people defending the potholes to reach this predicament in the first place, I don't think a third attempt to gain consensus for pothole destruction is going to work either. I think we should start voting on this Trope Transplant I've been talking about - moving the trope somewhere else and restoring Incredibly Lame Pun's original "this is not a trope, just a place to pothole puns to" definition.
Crown Description:
The previous crowner for Incredibly Lame Pun was split between two options. This is a runoff crowner.
I still fail to see how this crowner even matters. Sinkholes are sinkholes. And sinkholes need to be destroyed on sight.