Fallout: New Vegas

There is not the sufficient technology to mantain such long distance communications and supply deposits between the NCR hub and the Mojave. The NCR is overextending its military, financial and political extent when reaching out to the Mojave. This is their problem all over: poor communication. Bitter Springs, Mc Carran, Forlorn Hope, Golf...they are all examples of poor, or uninterested leadership, lack of supplies, and inside corruption.

Vegas is far more succesful, and useful, to the people in general as its sort of independent city-state. Under House, it serves as a safe hub. This is what people need. Safety. With access to clean water, food, and enough political stability, they can get around making progress. The only guys in Fallout whose first action is to make a school is uh. The Republic of Dave. I would not want to live in the Republic of Dave. And Vault 101.

It is a Crapsack World, and the NCR is a political machine. It is way too uncontrollable and big for even the Courier where he/she to be of any help, to stop all pockets of corruption that would screw over people. Whereas House is an autocratic bastard with no qualms on murdering people in his way. But as seen in quests like with the Omertas and the White Gloves, the guy does not trust people. If there is someone in his way, he is going to get someone from inside to murder him by paying him more, he does not trust people but trusts in their greed and behavior. It sounds awful, but the scary thing about it is that it works.

And by working, I simply mean it gives people safety and opportunities and that is, if anything, what they need. The NCR can provide shaky safety, and screw them over as much as they can help them financially and politically. House sems like a better bet than that, even considering he is rather monstrous and merciless in his behavior and commands. He will kill. But remember it is a Crapsack World.

That is pretty much why he is my choice. And while killing the Brotherhood of Steel is probably one of the most evil things he does, he was absolutely right in doing it. People are biased on the Bo S because they were the heroes in Fallout 3, and also because of the influence of Veronica Santangelo. But in F3, that Bo S faction is a splinter one, considered a renegade to be killed, by the main Brotherhood of Steel, and Veronica Santangelo is even considering leaving HER faction, making her more of an individual separated from her faction rather than part of it.

The Brotherhood of Steel are people who would kill an old, starving man and his family who were holding a shiny button if this button seemed important rather than help him in exchange for it. They are elitists that hoard technology at gunpoint, and are actually little better than the Enclave itself. The F3 example we see is a clear exception deemed heretic by the main faction of the Brotherhood, and Veronica Santangelo is not very representative of the Brotherhood as a whole.

edited 2nd Sep '14 7:51:15 AM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes

People don't blow up the BOS because they've done the quest for them so that Chapter could be much better off. That and you potentially killing a bunch of people. Its not just Veronica and an attachment to FO 3's BOS since quite clearly we aren't dealing with the same group the moment you meet them.

House doesn't have anything to do with the White Gloves quest wise unless there's a quest option I missed.

I don't believe House completely mistrusts people just enough to where it doesn't cloud his judgement. Mainly because he trusts the Courier even though the Courier has the ability to go behind his back at anytime. He trusted Benny as well.

He doesn't trust the Omerta's because of who they were as a tribe. Its the exact reason why he chose them to be the mobsters in the first place. He just knew for the most part he had them under control and under constant surveillance.

edited 2nd Sep '14 10:21:58 AM by MikeBreezy92

youtube.com/Fire Trainer 92

Yeah even with the quest, the Bo S is still an organization that is going to hoard all technology to their own purposes, which is directly against House's plans of fomenting trade, investigation, and space travel. They are another obstacle. As I said, he is an objectionable person since he is going to murder people pretty ruthlessly. No murder is excusable Crapsack World or not, but he is likely to get more done than any other group.

House was the one who removed the cannibalism from the White Gloves in the first place, and who demanded several changes from several of the gangs to "civilize" them. And yes, the Courier is the game changer here, that is the Courier's role as protagonist, so let's not deny him any importance even if House has to depend onhim. Because. That is the whole point of the game. Benny I can give, yes, but still. One Benny is far more dependable than a thousand bureaocrats. I mean. Benny even got the jump on the Courier, so there has got to be something going on for him.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes

Its arguable that its the bullet wound in the head that made him special in the first place lol

youtube.com/Fire Trainer 92

Does not seem so to Courier 5. I would also add that traversing, alone, throughout the entire span of the mojave and being alive (consider you find the corpses of the other couriers) is a big accomplishment.

But specially taking Old World Blues into consideration that can be arguable.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes

The Courier got to Re-Roll at life...can't get any better lol.

youtube.com/Fire Trainer 92

"Dun mean that didn' leave ya nuttier than Bighorner droppings"

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes

I don't buy the "insufficient technology to maintain communications and supplies over such distances" thing for even half a second when the United States maintained control over far more land and a much more spread out population with far less technology back in the 18th and 19th century. There might not be the political will to do so, but there's no way that the means don't exist.

Yeah, I don't buy it either.

I mean, if you accept some of the stuff in Fallout 3, the Eastern Brotherhood has communicated with the Western Brotherhood. I see no reason why the NCR, who pretty much have access to most of the BOS's stuff, couldn't do so over a much smaller distance.

Even if you ignore Fallout 3, it's by no means impossible.

edited 2nd Sep '14 12:16:38 PM by Mukora

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."

There are no horses. No reliable means save slow moving wagons of brahmin to traverse through plague infested, dangerous lands. Things are safer if more localized.

And even with all their tools of communication, the problems of Camp Golf and Mc Carran and the splinter of the Brotherhood (as an example since they communicated from coast to coast) didn't even get close to solving their problems despite being able to talk from one side of the continent to the other.

There is no lifeline. They are too weak, easily severed, and there are few methods of transportation.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes

was the car in fallout 2 supposed to be a rare success in salvaging some transportation machinery resembling efficiency?

Didn't the Legion have chariots and crap before they got cut?

Oh really when?

The Legion is different and much "better" than the NCR at extending their territory. The Legion does not extend. They assimilate. Remember they destroy every sense of culture from the tribes they conquer an turn them into Legion as well. So they are massified as one. While it wreaks havoc in the societal structure, when it comes to supplying themselves they will be unified, as opposed to the NCR which will be facing resistance wherever they go because they try to impose themselves by gunpoint. Whereas Caesar fires that gun.

So the NCR had to bring farmers from their own territory (remember the quest with the farmers trapped inside?) and the New Vegas residents refer to them as "squatters" with the Kings gang already opening fire on them and that would continue to happen and will continue to happen because the NCR does not assimilate.

I am not saying the legion is "better" in the moral sense, just more effective. Ruthlessly so. As seen in the example of the farms, the NCR cannot get the people of the Mojave to collaborate with them to do something as simple as farming, they had to bring people from their land to begrudingly do so. THAT is the sort of thing that tells the lines are overextended.

House, instead, would handle things locally. So he is not extending anywhere and would not have these problems. Not to mention, even if there WERE horses, or cars, what roads are they going to use to transport things? The only reliable road is the Long 15, and it is pretty much wrecked, so good luck.

And Vertibirds need refueling, so they are not an option either

edited 2nd Sep '14 12:46:24 PM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes

The NCR does have vehicles, actually. You can see functioning trucks in Mc Carran, and I'm certain they have more back in California.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."

Midwestern BOS has access to Hummers and Tanks....

Broad Strokes I know...

youtube.com/Fire Trainer 92

The Legion survived by raiding and stealing from tribes and land they absorbed. That's no long term strategy and frankly it's nothing short of a miracle that they survived as long as they did.

Oh really when?

Even with trucks it is still not viable because of the frequency with which you would need to be refueling the Mojave of the things they will not provide. It was, however, worth it to send them in in the first place to defend the electrical interests of the NCR in Hoover Dam.

That and the Long 15 being the only road known to communicate the NCR and the Mojave, it is just too vulnerable a point, too draining a military effort and too draining in resources (again, the mojave does not collaborate with the NCR) to be very viable.

I don't agree too much. Provided the Legion is actually strong, the lands they hold are safe, work, and the traders you speak to refer to it as a very, very safe place to do business in. the Legion's worst long term strategy would be the Legion itself and its societal structure, but not because they cannot get what they need from their own lands.

edited 2nd Sep '14 12:54:18 PM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes

Safe if you're an adult human male.

Anything else, and you're fucked.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."

Yup. Part of the Legion's reasons for getting fucked up soon. Even ancient rome allowed citizenry to women. (sort of. They were not allowed to vote, amongst other things, but they could have possessions, divorce, etc)

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes

Pretty obvious Edward isn't trying to copy Rome bit by bit so the inaccuracies are kinda moot.

youtube.com/Fire Trainer 92

Correction on the Legion: they only "assimilate" tribal types. Towns, traders and couriers are not assimilated, they're mostly left alone unless they're in the way.

The Legion can maintain order throughout the East and the Mojave because they have a much higher tooth-to-tail ratio than the NCR and because they don't try to do as much. The NCR is a modern liberal democracy that's supposed to provide services for its people, and they don't have the manpower or the resources to do it (and their bureaucracy appears to have become inefficient to the point of rotting); the Legion's governance of their territory focuses on collecting taxes, eliminating bandits and protecting the trade routes and the couriers, which is something they do very well.

Ironically, Caesar maps more closely to Genghis Khan than the Khans do.

edited 3rd Sep '14 1:19:32 AM by Ramidel

I despise hypocrisy, unless of course it is my own.

Sallow's Merry Band are over extended in the Mojave though. You can tell that by the amount of their top commanders that are stationed in the region, i.e. all of them, from their leader, his second in command, their top slave breakers and so on. To the extent that there's no-one of their calibre left back in Arizona to look after things, as Eddiekins has fully committed the Merry Band's resources to winning in the Mojave and steamrollering NCR territory proper. Who knows what the folks back home are getting up to while the cat's away getting a sun tan?

If you look at historical comparisons in the past, that is pretty much the smart thing to do. With no autocratic families ruling and power concentrated in the Imperator, the only ones who would be able to take over Caesar would be the important commanders, most likely, Legate Lanius.

Look at Byzantine, Macedonian and Roman history: the one who took the throne was the commander, not random aristocratic family. But with all the militia centralized on Caesar (Really, does one ever meet a rebel against Caesar in the whole Legion?), Arizona has little to fear. And like the NCR, they need the Hoover Dam for its electrical purposes, so it is a risk well worth taking.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes

It's only smart when you discount the possibility of a very pissed off delivery person recovering from being shot twice in the head having an introduction to the Legion that leads to him or her dropping the head of Sallow's Frumentarii and associated scumbags and eventually wiping out that top leadership to a man, plus smashing his entire army at Fortification Hill with the help of the upgraded Securitron Mk I Is. There's probably a lot of folks who didn't shoot Vulpes Inculta and his pals once he finished giving his little motivational speech but I'm not usually one of them.

Eddiekins can't contemplate any result that leads to him losing either his life or his leadership in his Legion, therefore he can't come up with a credible strategy once it all turns to shit for him when the Courier becomes the Legion's Grim fucking Reaper, let alone the Powder Gangers.

He's basically gone into the Mojave with No Plans, No Prototype, No Backup for when things go wrong and that's never a good thing if you look at that trope's page.

Yeah, I doubt anyone could ever plan the existence of a one man army. Even the Rangers, the super elite of the NCR, are bleeding terrified of the Legion and their leader is contemplating absolute surrender or inaction out of sheer hopelesness.

I do not think that judging a character based on what the PC, the protagonist, the hero, the one man army, the invincible super powered bastard who can punch a Legendary Deathclaw to death with bare fists, is a good measure to compare Caesar's competence to. Hence why it is better to use in game ocmparisons of other people's opinions for that guy an that group, rather than "what you can do to him as a player"

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes