Raildex verse (A Certain Magical Index, A Certain Scientific Railgun, A Certain Scientific Accelerator)

I'm sorry, I'm having trouble figuring out the context of that. What was that in response to?

Continuing the discussion we're having about Touma's personality (with regards to his hero complex) pre-amnesia and how it differs (if it all) compared to post-amnesia.

What was in your right hand is hope; And in another hand is something else to fade.

I was mainly confused about which comment specifically was being replied to.

One thing that bugs (not as much as the amnesia shit, though) is Kuroko's attitude/personality, especially towards Touma getting flanderized to hell somewhere after the Kazakiri/Sherry arc.

She was actually able to be civil towards him, albeit mildly condescending during their first meeting at the park, during the Sisters arc in her room and during the above-mentioned Kazakiri/Sherry arc. After that she basically froths at the mouth or acts violently towards him, teleport-kicking him in the head on at least two occasions (after the Daihasei arc and during mall 'filler'/punishment game episode).

What was in your right hand is hope; And in another hand is something else to fade.

Because unfortunately Kuroko is treated a lot of the time as solely a joke about her attraction to Mikoto (and also it's apparently OK in Anime-land for girls to beat the crap out of boys at the slightest "provocation"). Believe it or not, she's even worse in the Railgun anime.

The manga, on the other hand, has a whole lot more characterization for her (and a lot more good characterization for pretty much every character that shows up in it in general). Yes, she still obsesses over Mikoto a lot, but when she's not busy doing that she's one of my favorite characters.

Is Kakine currently in a similar situation as Kazakiri where Imagine Breaker is a literal instant-kill against him?

---

So, we know that Imagine Breaker (and possibly whatever other power Touma might have) is sealing the Invisible Thing...

...the question is...

Why?

Appearance of a dragon (at least, within the borders of Academy City, apparently) aside, what reason is there that the Invisible Thing isn't allowed to roam free? We don't see much of it long enough to know whether it is pure evil or malevolent in any way (though the fact that it's sealed in the first place might suggest that, it might actually more benevolent than it appears).

Stiyl didn't shit his pants in its presence (unlike the other red-head who witnessed it), but he also dismissed it as a construct of Izzard's Ars Magna (as did we, the audience)/readers, initially), although Fiamma (the aforementioned other red-head) did shit his pants (although I'd probably attribute that to a standard Villainous Breakdown or something) and Touma suppressed it shortly after and regenerated Imagine Breaker. Then there's the Railgun version (the Level 6 Mikoto arc) where Touma unleashed MULTIPLE dragon heads to revert Mikoto back to normal, though there were apparently no (conscious) witnesses (Mikoto has little to no recollection of her actions in her transformed state, and Sogiita apparently didn't notice despite being in the general vicinity) although the process was so fast that Touma's arm regenerated and the dragons were resealed completely by the time Mikoto was back to normal.

TL;dr the Invisible Thing/Dragon(s) haven't appeared long enough to determine whether it/they absolutely MUST be sealed away due to malevolence/hostility, and I'm wondering what would happen if it wasn't sealed.

What was in your right hand is hope; And in another hand is something else to fade.

It should be, but it depends on whether Kamachi feels like thinking through the implications of the story.

Mikoto was no longer being manipulated and was fully cognizant of what was going on by the time Touma's arm got disintegrated. She definitely noticed at least that, although she seemingly chalked it up to hallucinations afterwards. I really do think Sogita absolutely noticed the entire thing, though.

Fun piece of speculation that I don't really believe, but am willing to entertain: Izzard created The Invisible Thing.

Gunha did notice. He went, "He made dragons appear! That guy has some serious guts!" He didn't shit his pants; he just commented that Touma was strong and he wanted to fight him some day.

@Sykosis Kakine, or Beetle 05, would be destroyed by Imagine Breaker as it destroys Dark Matter on contact. Touma proved he could do this during his fights with Rensa.

edited 27th Aug '15 7:19:06 PM by ultimomant

Remind me, does Touma's lack of luck only get played for comedy, or does it actually have serious consequences?

What was in your right hand is hope; And in another hand is something else to fade.

I can think of a few scenes like when he tried to sneak up on the Skill-Outs who kidnapped Mikoto's mom, only for her to see him and foolishly give him away. When they shot at him, he used a riot shield, but one of the bullets punched through it and hit him in the side. Also, when Motoharu pushed him out of a plane, his parachute malfunctioned, and he hit the water hard.

As I was ranting to myself about the idea of a fucking dog killing a Magic God, I deviated to another question regarding animals in the Raildex verse: namely what on Earth did Kakine find functional about a beetle that not only his original asshole incarnation would use one (or many) but his new, good incarnation would have that form as (one of) his default forms to the point that his other name/title is 'Beetle 05'?

Can anyone shed some light, cos I'm not seeing the pros of a beetle form.

What was in your right hand is hope; And in another hand is something else to fade.

I don't think any of those examples are Touma's bad luck. I don't think Misuzu noticing Touma was ever implied to be due to his luck at all, and riot shields aren't even supposed to be bullet proof (they're for riots, not warzones).

His luck is played for comedy in all sorts of unimportant situations, but it pretty much never actually affects him in any high-stakes situation, unless you consider him getting into this situations to be bad luck. That last part is probably true for the beginning of the series, but he's pretty obviously choosing to get involved with stuff at this point.

The best (and only) example I can think of where his bad luck actually affects him in a serious situation is when parachuting out of a plane when he goes to France. Every other time it's been dumb, pointless stuff that's either slapstick comedy or accidentally seeing a girl naked and then getting assaulted for it.

With regards to animals, well... because apparently Kamachi thinks they're cool. You and I seem to be in agreement that they're decidedly not.

Although the image of that Kihara dog smoking a cigar or whatever is pretty hilarious to me. I'm not sure if it's stupidly amazing or amazingly stupid.

edited 30th Aug '15 10:32:48 AM by clockworkBabbage

Touma's bad luck is kind of a mixed bag. There are some times where he's clearly actually lucky, but it mostly just works against him in comedic moments. However, it does seem to be an actual real testable phenomenon given that Othinus' ability before being fixed always worked against him 100% of the time.

Yeah, can someone explain Othinus's ability to me? Another case of Guide Dang It! from the wiki.

How did she lose/gain her 50/50 chance? What actually defeated her? Didn't she want the spear so she could gain a 100 percent success rate? Even with a 50/50 chance, why not keep trying?

edited 29th Aug '15 12:26:14 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!

She tried to not make the spear.So she failed.

Secret Signature

So she had the spear, and 100 percent success.

What did the "turn into a fairy" spell do then? Couldn't she have undone it or something?

And how on earth did she lose?

edited 29th Aug '15 12:27:19 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!

It was some mumbo jumbo about how gods became fairies overtime.The original goal was to nerf her as a god.It did,giving her a 100% failure rate.I think.

As for how she lost,lost the will to fight,more or less.

edited 29th Aug '15 12:29:20 PM by alekos23

Secret Signature

Well, the loophole abuse is kind of clever, I'm just forgetting the order:

• Othinus manipulating things from the shadows.
• Othinus has a 50/50 chance and can't do things herself.
• Othinus seeks the spear that will grant her God Mode.
• Gets hit with fairy spell, gives her 100 percent failure.
• Othinus abuses this to make herself fail to not make the spear.
• With the spear, she gains 100 percent success, God Mode activates.
• Othinus destroys the world.
• Loses her will to fight because of Touma's determination.

edited 29th Aug '15 1:04:09 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!

Remind me, did Othinus stomp the Invisible Thing because she was just that powerful, or because of that 100% Success Rate thing (and does the 100% Success Rate ignore power levels, which may explain said curbstomping?)

And is the 100% Success Rate unique to Othinus or did the other Magic Gods have it as well?

What was in your right hand is hope; And in another hand is something else to fade.

Uknown.Might have to do with the "Not REALLY real Magic God" stuff that came afterwards.

Secret Signature

Soble: It's not just a 50% chance that you fail and nothing happens. You might fail and then never be able to try again for some reason. For example, when she tore of Ollerus' arm, her own arm fell off as well.

And technically she was never defeated. Touma made her give up. He almost managed to punch her once but that wouldn't really have accomplished anything.

Sykosis: There's no difference. Othinus was omnipotent, and not in the shitty way the High Priest was. Her omnipotence sometimes forced her to fail even mundane tasks, but that doesn't really mean anything in this context.

How does the Index manga qualify in terms of canonicity (if that is not a word, I'm making it one) compared to the LN and anime?

Cos in chapter 6 (during the Index arc, so pre-amneia) Touma has a rather...interesting dream about Foreshadowing'an angel descending upon the house in the sea', getting chased by Aztecs and not finishing his summer vacation homework

edited 31st Aug '15 6:25:27 AM by Sykosis

What was in your right hand is hope; And in another hand is something else to fade.

Probably the same as the Railgun manga in that it's canon so far as it doesn't contradict the LN.

Guess you could consider it more canon than the anime since Kamachi has more personal interaction with the manga, but it skips enough arcs that it probably doesn't matter all that much to be honest.

And yeah, I really have no idea what that dream was. Maybe some sort of call-forward to Touma having precog? He doesn't have that kind of precog though.

Honestly, whatever came out more recently is probably what is canon. I don't think Kamachi really cares about keeping a consistent world if he thinks of something more interesting.