World Of Warcraft

Aren't all video game plots Excuse Plots by a certain interpretation? That's badly missing the point.

Blizzard wanted to set an expansion in Old Draenor and have us fight a different version of the Horde. Having thus decided, they set about creating a series of events that would allow that to happen. It's no more and no less contrived than wanting to, say, create a movie in a science fiction universe starring psychics wielding laser swords, or set a novel in a fantasy kingdom with magical talking horses. See: Anthropic Principle.

Also, as Clarste noted, they really seem to be trying to evoke the RTS roots of the franchise with this expansion, with all the nostalgia involved.

edited 10th Jul '14 1:28:50 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

The difference between an Excuse Plot and a normal plot, is that an Excuse Plot abuses personalities motions or uses blatant Deus Ex Machinas to make things that do not make sense at all, happen.

Time-travel alternate-dimension things are on TOP of the list for "Things that are really a stretch for it to happen".

The story just has not been believable for a long while. Not in the "Duh, magic" way, but in the sense of character integrity, story continuty and Willing Suspension of Disbelief

edited 10th Jul '14 1:33:26 PM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes

No, sorry, that's not missing the point at all. That's being laser focused on it. You disagree and you are entitled to do so. But it seems to me that they are running out of ideas for how to keep the game going and need to strip mine their past, a past a lot of gamers who did not play the first two Warcraft games do not give a damn about, in order to stumble forwards a bit longer and hopefully stem the hemorrhaging subscriber numbers just a little.

If they want to return to the RTS days, there's a very simple solution: bring out Warcraft IV once they have finished with Starcraft 2. Heck, I would play that.

edited 10th Jul '14 1:32:22 PM by TamH70

and : That isn't even close to what an Excuse Plot means. Let's not mince words here. You disagree with Blizzard on the direction the story has been taking. Fine, great, got it. But you do not get to label it "bad" or "an excuse" or "a desperate attempt to retain subscribers". You have no evidence of that other than your opinion, which is already biased.

You have the right to like or dislike the story. You do not have the right to infer Blizzard's motives based on your like or dislike.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

I am not trying to discern Blizzard's motives in what I have said. All I said, is that my opinion, is that the story is bad. I can have an opinion, can I? I blatantly said there are things I like, too and mentioned them, but the story is not one of them.

Same can apply to you, too. Can you discern Blizzard's motives?

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes

Isn't that what you are doing? Inferring their motives? And sorry, again, but a company that has lost over four point four million subscribers from a peak of twelve million (that's more than a quarter for the mathematically challenged among us) has to be desperate to keep from losing any more of them if they have any sense whatsoever. Because four point four million X (whatever monthly subscription fees were for those lost subscribers TIMES twelve) = is an obscenely huge amount of money to lose if you are a shareholder looking at those numbers.

And I have every right to do exactly what you are claiming I am doing, if I was doing that. Since I own every xpac up until now. Yeah, even Mists of Pandaria. Go figure.

edited 10th Jul '14 2:13:56 PM by TamH70

I'm using Blizzard's own statements; I'm not inferring anything. Say what you might about the loss of subscribers; I'm willing to bet that only a tiny fraction of those left because they genuinely cared about the integrity of the plot. "Blizzard sank my Thrall/Jaina ship, I'm quitting!"

Gameplay is what creates a compelling MMO experience, and eight years of any product will get stale for players. Even at 7 million subscribers, WoW is the market share leader several times over. You may feel free to tell me "I told you so" when it actually risks losing to a competitor.

Until then, I'd appreciate it if the unfettered negativity could be aimed somewhere else. I'd like to talk about the game without all the whining.

Heck, I can't say that I'll be a subscriber until the bitter end. I've noticed a tendency to boredom in the game of late that has nothing to do with the story and everything to do with the fact that I've been playing it for eight years.

By any measurement you care to name, it's been one of the most successful — if not the most successful — single products in all of video game history.

edited 10th Jul '14 2:29:44 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

People can play a game without liking a plot, same way there can be games with absolutely no plot that people like and play...like Tetris. And World Of Warcraft has the superior gameplay/interface/thematics amongst all MMOs. From Neverwinter to Lineage I have tried many of them on a hiatus and World Of Warcraft just comes out on top.

It is why I mentioned the elements of World Of Warcraft I like as opposed to simply sticking to the story. Also I fail to see the relationship between the words "genuine plot" followed by a ship.

Maybe not liking something is not necesarily unfettered negativity, but it can also be some opinion formed after analysis. I agree most people who hate World Of Warcraft, hate it blindly, with no more than a superficial analysis of it, but not everyone is necesarily that.

I'd argue that popularity does not equal quality, but that conversation can't end up anywhere pretty.

edited 10th Jul '14 2:29:06 PM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes

You would not believe how many people complained bitterly when Thrall shacked up with Aggra, as if a newly introduced character could not possibly make a satisfactory Love Interest for their favorite Orc. She was labeled everything in the book: a Shallow Love Interest, a Mary Sue, etc., etc. As far as I can tell, none of this had any basis in reason; it was almost entirely disappointed Thrall/Jaina shippers. This is typical of the quality of the complaints that I've observed about the story.

Obviously, popularity does not equal quality, and Blizzard's made its share of mistakes, but the simple fact that WoW has lasted as long as it has and been as successful as it has is emblematic of something exceptional and enduring about the game.

edited 10th Jul '14 2:34:46 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

yeah but I am not one of them.

I agree: many people who hate Warcraft do so blindly, and with no reason other than to jump on a hate bandwagon.

But I am trying to tell you that your words of "You are biased because of things like that" does not necesarily apply to me, or anyone. I've done my analysis. I've done my research and I've reached an opinion, and I understand the opinion is mine and my own only, not an absolute truth.

I also play the game and I also like things about the game, and I agree with you: World of Warcraft is a huge mark on history of videogames. But it doesn't mean we can't be critical of it, or its elements, specially personally, and be called "biased" for it, or told I am just jumping on a bandwagon that "permeates any fandom".

edited 10th Jul '14 2:39:19 PM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes

I personally couldn't care less about the Thrall Jaina thing. It was never on my radar. What was actually the catalyst for my cancellation of my subscription was the article Anne Stinkney on the World Of Warcraft Insider blog wrote about Mists, which was basically "The Alliance is going to get screwed over story-wise for the duration of this xpac and this is why you are going to like it," which she backed up by input from Blizzard - quotes and so on. To which I replied "Lol Nope. Laters".

And I am sorry if you think I am being "unfettered" in my "negativity". As an owner of the product and as a former subscriber, I feel that I have every right to say what I am thinking about the direction that that product is taking. Especially when that direction is causing me to have second thoughts about re-upping my subscription.

You have the right to your opinion, of course. I have never disputed that. What I am saying is that projecting your dislike of a particular decision to "Blizzard hates its players" or "Blizzard doesn't care about the quality of the game's story" or "Blizzard is pandering to nostalgia to revive its subscriber numbers" is inherently fallacious.

I play Alliance. I never felt left out in any way by the story. Frankly, I think you've got too much invested in it if you can't handle the idea of an expansion that has a Horde character in the main spotlight. In particular, this idea that Blizzard "hates the Alliance" or "plays favorites with the Horde" is yet another of those pernicious memes that only harms the discourse surrounding the game. Whether it has any basis in fact is irrelevant.

edited 10th Jul '14 2:43:24 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Happen to have a link to that insider article by this Anne person? I'd like to read it.

I was not the one who either brought the suscribers issue nor the nostalgia one (as a manner of fact, I opposed that notion if you read back post #13184), nor did I ever say they did not care about their writing. You are putting other people's arguments and pitting them as mine.

I dislike the story but not for those reasons.

Thanks. I will give it a read.

edited 10th Jul '14 3:18:34 PM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes

Here: http://wow.joystiq.com/2011/11/20/know-your-lore-story-development-and-why-theramore-should-burn/

Taking cues from this one: http://wow.joystiq.com/2011/10/24/zarhym-weighs-in-on-theramore-rumors-in-mists-of-pandaria/

It took me a while. I guess you can see where HER bias is evident from just by reading the title of her article, eh? Easy enough to spot, one would imagine. Why should Theramore burn, and not Orgrimmar as well? Or indeed Ironforge, or Undercity?

Frankly, I would call the fact that they're willing to have the story not be perfectly mirrored on both sides a sign of good writing. Keeping the Horde and Alliance "balanced" in terms of story or disasters or whatnot sounds like a recipe for the blandest stuff ever.

That said, speaking as one of the lost subscribers, I think the story's... decent. I'm definitely coming back for the expansion, if only to drop again. I just lost my raiding guild to attrition, which leaves me no reason to log in every day.

edited 10th Jul '14 4:34:34 PM by Clarste

Artcraft - Son of Exodar

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."

Beta Build 18537 and Beta notes updated July 11th

Will post all changes here when I get home.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."

I'm glad the space goats are getting the attention they deserve

"Coffee! Coffeecoffeecoffee! Coffee! Not as strong as Meth-amphetamine, but it lets you keep your teeth!"

Yeah, they do look really nice.

Anyone posted recommended system stats yet?

The beta runs fine on the machine that I play Mists on. I can only assume that they haven't tweaked the reqs that much.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Looks like there's another new elemental mastery. Unless I'm misreading this, it sounds like we continuously throw rocks at anything we're shooting at. Sort of a passive Searing Totem.

edited 11th Jul '14 8:56:22 PM by Clarste

If I recall because of all the optimization going on WoD is as easy if not easier to run than MoP. But I could be wrong as I heard this months ago, and well 'beta is beta'.

Or I suppose 'alpha was alpha'?

edited 11th Jul '14 9:11:21 PM by Blackcoldren

Not dead, just feeling like it.

Sorry, guys. I said screw it to reposting the Beta notes. Would rather be actually playing wow or something else.

I will have to admit I like the fact they are adding a way to change up your graphics settings between bgs, raids, and the regular world. That really helps someone like me who bought a pre-packaged tower from Best Buy just a couple of months before DS.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."

Wowhead's Garrison guide.

Does anyone else think the Storehouse seems OP? The ability to access your personal bank, guild bank, and void storage at levels 1,2, and 3 and 2 more work orders for all buildings at level 3?

Will have to keep looking and making sure though.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."

Stable

• Reduces the chance of being dazed on a mount by 50%.
• You may remain mounted while interacting with objects in the world.
• Increases mount speed in Draenor by 20%.

THE REIGN OF DRUID HERBALISTS IS OVER

edited 12th Jul '14 3:43:20 PM by stevebat

Apocalypse: Dirge Of Swans.