World Of Warcraft

I thought that Kael'thas was actually resurrected, not just left for dead. Or else he burned out and was unconscious; whatever. The point is that he didn't just Feign Death and let people steal his pants; that's absurd.

Again, with the history of lore in the Warcraft 'verse, any given character could jump off the slippery slope at any time. Calling it Character Derailment is kind of missing the point.

edited 22nd Oct '12 8:39:36 AM by Fighteer

Burning Crusade was that bad with the story.

Don't you turn in his head to A'dal?

Kael was a damn powerful warlock/mage. I'm surprised he didn't banish the party or teleport or something.

I do admit, they got better in that final patch. The naaru was no longer in Silvermoon, the blood knight commander renounces Kael, it was pretty cool.

edited 22nd Oct '12 8:45:06 AM by Rotpar

It generally seems to me that the whole world is one giant Conflict Ball, and they all have their hands on it. I suspect magic, Gods and the nature of that reality.

Besides, look at human history in this reality. Lots of war, often with really stupid reasons.

@Rotpar: Gameplay and Story Segregation. Why doesn't any particular boss just obliterate the raid group? The reason is that you have to be able to kill him. Also, bosses in Warcraft tend to fall victim to some rather blatant Genre Blindness regarding the fact that every single other prominent character who's been approached by a team of 10, 25, or 40 players has been murdered viciously.

edited 22nd Oct '12 8:46:00 AM by Fighteer

Oh, well I get that. And the Lich King does which is awesome. Just figured at like 10% HP or so, he should have gone "JUST A SETBACK" and escaped. Hell, if they did that encounter in modern WoW that big crystal would have gone into his chest in-game.

I don't mind the raid encounters and their role in the story, other then players thinking that they literally have personally killed Onyxia -> Deathwing, because Leetgirl and Holycow are just that awesome.

edited 22nd Oct '12 8:48:59 AM by Rotpar

There's also the hubris factor. Kael'thas didn't consider the raid group to be a threat to him. The Lich King planned all along for the "heroes of Azeroth" to pass his trials and minions so he could kill and raise them. His mistake was in making Fordring watch. Along with the Genre Blindness, becoming a Big Bad in Warcraft comes with a healthy dose of megalomania.

Oh, and Kael'thas also had the whole deal going with sucking all the mana out of Outland so he could bring back Kil'jaeden. And I got the impression that once he goes into his Gravity Lapse phase, he's gone so crazy with power that he literally can't stop fighting even if he were to suddenly realize the mortal peril he's in.

With Great Power Comes Great Insanity is an Enforced Trope in Warcraft.

edited 22nd Oct '12 8:51:18 AM by Fighteer

>Don't you turn in his head to A'dal?

No, you give him one of those three balls that swirl around the guy.

Now, the second time, you do make sure to go with the head.

Theres a reason for that. Arcane magic is by its very nature addictive, narcotic, and downright exhilirating to channel.

This is why quite a few mages go powermad, or become warlocks. Because only the strongest of wills can bend Arcane or Fel magic to their desire without letting the power corrupt them absolutely.

Right. So the point is that Kael'thas' actions are not Character Derailment but a perfectly logical progression of the path he chose.

I wonder what all that bodes for Jaina... getting a revenge motivation is a great way to let the insanity part of With Great Power Comes Great Insanity get the better of you.

edited 22nd Oct '12 8:57:28 AM by Fighteer

Ok, my mistake. Never did him when it was current.

Sucking all the mana out of Outland was his goal? I know he was doing that in Netherstorm.

Ultimately, Blizzard learned not to neglect the story from TBC. Other then a couple of hurdles here and there, they're putting a lot more effort in. I don't mind "the age of mortals" or "Garrosh is a maniac".

edited 22nd Oct '12 8:59:02 AM by Rotpar

Well, Netherstorm at the very least. His purpose was to channel it all into the Sunwell so as to let Kil'jaeden into Azeroth.

Alright, well at any rate, I do see your point, it seemed real damn sudden at the time.

Now for some more archeology, maybe one dig from getting that spear.

Heh, I'm working on my "solve 5 of each artifact" achievements now. I'm at item level 466 and am just waiting for LFR to reset and for my guild to get its collective act together for 10-mans. It would also be nice if I could get a leather caster helm to drop in a dungeon.

I started leveling my Paladin yesterday. I hit 86 rather quickly: pallies seem to have a very easy time grinding as there's lots of survivability in that toolkit.

edited 22nd Oct '12 9:18:18 AM by Fighteer

I remember vvveeerrryyyyyyyy ssssslllloooowwwwwwlllllyyyy killing things pre-TBC on my paladin using my awesome auto-attacks, consecrate, and seal/blessing of light.

Seal of Command, baby. That's where it used to be at. You were at the mercy of the proc machine. Once 2.0 hit, you could use Seal of Blood (Horde only) and murder yourself for a bit more DPS.

edited 22nd Oct '12 9:29:52 AM by Fighteer

I'm at ilvl 445 right now in my PVE set, but I've only just started doing heroic 5-mans. Had one drop, the hunter helm. I'm liking the heroics; they're at an appropriate level of difficulty, I think.

Feeling a bit inadequate pulling 22k DPS when some other guys are getting close to 60k, though. Gear? Need to work on my rotation? Or are hunters that much behind?

I was one of those new-fangled prot paladins when 1.7(?) made them tank-ish rather then...uh, half-assed Pv P spec? So I didn't get command. I had a shield, two forms of heal-on-hit, and my character was smart enough to keep swinging at the thing in front of her. I think exorcism was still demon/undead only.

I think I read books between judgements and the occasional "Oh shit, no heal procs, BUBBLE!".

@Morven: 22K seems a bit low. It's probably a bit of both: gear and rotation. There is a big difference between 445 and 463.

Plus, I'm not blowing all that gold on gems and enchants 'til I get a piece of gear that I'm likely to keep for more than a week. Which means heroic drops or the equivalent.

Worse, my bow's only ilvl 429. No luck on drops, not enough gold to blow five figures in the AH, not ground up the rep to buy the Klaxxi one. It's notable, too, that there's no honor point weapons this time. (I don't think there are ever justice point weapons, that I can recall).

Still trying to work out the best rotations; the new talented skills really mess with the MM hunter's hard rules and timeouts, and complete lack of haste compared to what I'm used to too. I find myself either dropping the MM haste buff through not being able to get enough steady shots in, missing hitting timeouts quick enough, or wasting procs. I guess I got too used to exactly what worked best in Cata.

@Fighteer: my personal Theory is kael originally didnt likely intend to work for KJ. But somewhere between trying to find enough power to save his people and despair and the sheer amount of uncontrollable fel and arcane energy that pours from Outland's remains, he likely slowly went from "lusting for power to save my people" to just plain "lusting for power".

This is also why most of the Blood elves you play or back home in silvermoon were horrified when they find out what Kael and their brethren have become. They went from heroes who went to Outland and came back claiming theyd found all the arcane energy they'd ever need, and when the rest (IE, Blood elf players) went there to see it for themselves, they found their brethren gorging themselves on arcane energy to the point their minds were positively addled into a stupor. or outright becoming members of the Burning Legion.

edited 22nd Oct '12 10:34:02 AM by Midgetsnowman

@Morven: Your bow is a big source of your DPS. Get that upgraded and you'll be in much better shape. You should run Scenarios; several of the quests there give you weapons, and the random chance at loot from the bag you get at the end can also have a weapon; that's how I got my 463 caster staff.

@Midgetsnowman: That's exactly what happened to Kael'thas — too much gorging on Fel energy to the point where he lost his original motivations and became nothing more than a tool for Kil'jaeden. That's how Fel and Arcane energies explicitly work in the Warcraft universe. Same with the Old Gods. In fact, there are so many corrupting influences that it's a wonder any race manages to remain sane.

I wouldn't bother running scenarios. They take a long time, they're boring, and you have pretty good odds of getting nothing out of the experience. Literally, nothing. Not a thing. Not even copper.

However, there is one scenario that has a quest that gives you a 450 weapon. The Arena of Annihilation. It's this expansions new Ring of Blood. Definitely a good place to get a starter weapon for heroics.

We're not sane. The Curse of the Flesh and all that. It just happens to be the case that we've all been insane together for so long that our values have changed.

edited 22nd Oct '12 11:07:40 AM by Clarste

If you define insanity as "deviating from the original purpose of the Titans", that's entirely true. But Azeroth has also proven to be the one planet in the universe capable of mounting an effective resistance to both the Burning Legion and the Old Gods. If anything, the Titans should use it as a model of what to do right.

Of course, the Titans have a massive myopia problem when it comes to such things. They are so focused on their ideal of the Proper Order of the Universe that they can't see Azeroth as anything other than a result of the corruption of that purpose. I suppose that Algalon's defeat is canonically the first time we've seen an agent of the Titans come to terms with the reality of Azeroth, even to a small degree. Hopefully that sets the stage for whatever Blizzard has in mind for the grand finale.

edited 22nd Oct '12 11:15:35 AM by Fighteer

Well, the obvious story to tell is that the Titans are the Order opposed to the Chaos that is the Burning Legion. And based on the narrative logic that permeates Blizzard and other modern fiction, that makes them just as bad, just in the opposite direction. We'll probably end up fighting them too. Somehow I doubt that Algalon's message will have much persuasive effect.

The Titans are a classic example of Light Is Not Good.