Sucker Punch

I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing about including Berserk in your list of anime/manga that has issues. Even pointed out that Gantz would probably be a better fit. You can't now switch arguments and say "Well, there are lots of other manga and anime that do it wrong." We know that.

Pretty off-topic, I guess.

edited 5th Sep '12 8:54:32 PM by CorrTerek

....But Guts never slipped into a state of debilitating mental illness after his rape, and Batman made a full recovery after having his back broken. Their female companions didn't fare too well, and this is the underlying point behind the difference between the "women in refrigerators" device and the "men defrosting" device. Berserk is a fine example of this from where I'm standing, and the fact that such a strong female character like Casca pretty much lost her shit is one of the few issues I have with that manga.

I have spoilers below, and I'm not going to conceal them. You've been warned.

Synder's not a master of cinema, but I noticed the same problem crop up, and I suspect it was intentional. Blue gets stabbed in the shoulder and sent off to prison. Babydoll gets lobotomized. The message I took from the final scene was how we have fetishized the total destruction of women. Men, on the other hand, either suffer physical or psychological trauma as a temporary downfall, and while Blue is probably going to rot in prison, Babydoll has lost contact with reality permanently.

I'm not trying to read too deeply into the movie, but did anyone notice how most of the men really don't suffer much physical and psychological damage by comparison? Nearly all of the female dancers who were part of the core team were killed, and Sweet Pea is the only one who escapes relatively unharmed. Even if Synder didn't intend to send that message, I can see how that aspect of the movie can be used as criticism toward women's portrayal in comic books.

Blue's nervous breakdown before being arrested was, for me at least, a deconstruction of how female characters' suffering is used to propel the male character into a cathartic moment of character development. Blue's character doesn't develop when he sees Babydoll after her lobotomy - it makes him snap because that gleeful, absent-minded expression on her face is unbearably unsettling. Even if it wasn't for him, it certainly was for me. As a metamorphosis of what Sweet Pea said in the beginning "surgery" act, that moment crosses the line from quirky erotica to downright disturbing. You want the human sex doll who will stand there and look pretty? Here you go. It was a "be careful what you wish for" concept directed toward the audience that I actually respect.

To briefly credit Berserk, I don't have as much of a problem with Gutts' response to Casca's downfall because it is shown in a much more realistic light. Rather than his triumphantly marching to faraway lands to find the cliched "cure" or "spell breaker" seen in other fantasy stories, Gutts has several emotional crises post-Eclipse that almost break his spirit, and not in a glorious or romantic way, either. That's veering off-topic, and I apologize for that. I just wanted to express my thoughts on that part of his characterization.

edited 5th Sep '12 9:25:25 PM by Aprilla

His issues with personal contact were rather well done, I thought. And, in fairness, he didn't get raped by a freaking demon, which is where I thought Casca's issues were coming from. But that's really a matter of interpretation, so I'll concede that. Gantz is still a way better example of sexualization and violence towards women, imho.

Back to the film, I keep trying to watch it but something always comes up and I don't get to. I applaud what it's trying to do, however.

Okay, I'll admit I forgot a couple of details since I last saw the film, so I went back and did a little looking. I still think the movie's message itself is handled too weakly to have had any specific aim, but if you really wanna pin this down to a specific audience, then it would the video game crowd, due to the style and some of referential stuff.

However, you can't say it targets comics and anime just because of the costuming. By that logic Kick Ass is geared towards the video game industry because one of the scenes is in first-person.

edited 5th Sep '12 9:53:11 PM by Watchtower

I don't understand why we can't settle on the idea that it's a matter of opinion. You either see it a certain way or you don't. The mission layout of each "dance vision" or whatever you want to call it bears a resemblance to sections I've seen in games like Legend of Zelda and the Modern Warfare series. I'd even go so far as to say it also resembles a JRPG right down to the bizarre outfits and the team dynamics. The anime-like characterizations and surrealism struck a chord with me, as well. However, the movie never seems to be screaming at the audience that it absolutely must be perceived as such. Inception also felt like a video game, even right down to the "levels" and the team specialty assignments. It doesn't have to feel like one, but the feeling is there for some, not for others.

It's just one interpretation, though. There's nothing objective about that unless Synder himself clearly stated in an interview or director's commentary that this was his explicit goal. The Matrix has elements of both Blade Runner and Ghost in the Shell in it, but not everyone got that impression. No biggie.

edited 5th Sep '12 10:19:51 PM by Aprilla

And I'm all okay for alternate interpretations. If this were a case on subjective viewpoint I wouldn't even have jumped in. However, Gabrael's argument is based on what she perceives to be an objective viewpoint, which I can and will (to some extent) disagree with.

Whoops. Sorry for that. Fixed.

edited 6th Sep '12 9:08:08 AM by Watchtower

I'm a woman.