Neon Genesis Evangelion

I took a break for a long period as work ate up more and more of my time.

Lost my job a couple months ago, so...

I'm sorry about that.

And in regards to Anno trying to help otaku, I don't quite think hammering home some sort of mean-spirited message that 3.0 did is really the best option. Heck, the message itself (you can find happiness as long as you are alive and to just keep moving forward) is at odds with the sheer amount of destruction that Shinji caused. And with how he apparently sees saving Rei as a bad thing, that means that she can't even have that chance.

Talk about a Broken Aesop and/or a Clueless Aesop.

My problem isn't even the perceived/intended message or whatever, I'm more bugged at how pointless the angst was.

Kaworu takes the collar off of Shinji and puts it on himself. First of all, if they can take it off, why not leave it off? I'm probably forgetting a detail about the collar, like if it gets taken off it'll explode after too long, so this is more of a minor gripe that I can admit fault on if I'm wrong.

But then there's that giant drop-off where Kaworu took Shinji to show him the remains of the world.

If the collar explodes after it spends too long off of its subject, then why not drop it down that expanse?

It's not like it'll go off with an Earth-Shattering Kaboom - it turned Kaworu's head into mush right next to Shinji's cockpit, it didn't fuck up the Eva physically all that much. If that drop-off had a loose pillar of support, the collar going off wouldn't have made all that much trouble.

So why did Kaworu put it on himself. leave it on himself - when we know that it can be taken off - and have his head liquified, when they could have just lost the collar sometime after he put it on?

I had problems with a lot of the movie's depressing nature, but this was by far my biggest issue. It all felt like hollow, bleak, pointless fluff - End of Eva was weird, depressing and fucked up, but it had something that 3.33 just didn't. In that movie, you have a limited idea what the fuck is happening unless you're a turbo-nerd, you've seen the show enough or unless you've seen it a few times - with 3.33, there's that similar feeling of unbroken ground, but even with everything going to shit there's this uncomfortable, almost hostile undercurrent that just kind of gave me a headache as I watched it. And there are scenes that feel slapped together, or loosely justified, due to the movie's minimalist nature - scenes intended to be another horrifying slap in the face, like Toji's school shirt, after a movie of that and not much else. Nothing happens for 15 minutes. Upsetting thing happens. Shinji is upset. Nothing happens for 15 minutes. etc. etc.

That shock moment could have been avoided entirely. You see Kaworu take the collar off of Shinji, you see a seemingly endless drop high above the clouds for that collar to go. We see the collar come off of Shinji, so we know it can be opened after being used on someone. And it's all for that climactic "Kaworu gets beheaded" shot to make Shinji miserable, after an hour and a half of kick after kick. It just upsets me how cheap it felt, how it could have been avoided. It felt like they included it as a way to shoehorn in that iconic moment for the fans, but it felt like a slap in the face.

The collar should never have been a part of the movie. Cut Kaworu's head off some other way.

Something something Bishi Space Jesus something something taking Shinji's sins onto his own shoulders.

Yeah it's pretty fucking stupid, but it's what happened and there's nothing we can do about it, so I'm just gonna accept it for what it is and hope Final is much better.

Truth be told, the message of hope in spite of the sheer hell the world suffered from N 3 I does stick with me more than anything else, not because of anything to do with Kaworu, but rather, it's because a tiny little detail in the Geofront. I don't remember exactly which scene it's a part of, but you can see that some grass has grown, and maybe a flower too. A tiny spec of green in world of blood; new born life triumphing over Hell itself, at ground zero no less.

It isn't something that the movie really emphasizes, but it's the single most important and powerful shot in the film for me, and its impact is greatly amplified by a visit I recently made to Hiroshima and the Hiroshima Peace Memorial Park. You see, the museum there provides a chronology of the nuclear bombing, showing what exactly the people suffered at the moment of detonation, the short term impacts on the environment and survivors, as well as the long term impacts. To quickly sum it up in words that come anywhere close to doing the victims any measure of justice: We raped the Earth and the very soul humanity itself. But the final image in the museum is that of the first plant to break soil and return natural life to the Hell that the city became, and Goddamn that is the most powerful thing I have ever seen.

I don't know if Anno was intentionally referencing that image or not, but that more than anything is what I take away from the film.

The final fight of rebuild should be Hideaki Anno in a homage to Nier Automata's CEO DLC fight.

edited 17th Apr '17 9:35:19 AM by Demongodofchaos2

To me, while the film does seem to try to imply that there is still hope, there simply isn't enough to offset the sheer amount of despair and spiteful ness that the film contains. As a result, it doesn't really manage to feel like anything but bitter, with a halfhearted attempt at being hopeful, when much of Shinji's hopes get brutally crushed.

I got the feeling that Kaworu needed Shinji to trust him, and that was the quickest way to that result. Though maybe I'm too familiar with the more manipulative and calculating versions of Kaworu. His personality has had some range in different adaptions.

Plus the symbolic gesture of shouldering Shinji's unwanted burdens.

I think the final Rebuild flick will disappoint the fans, even the ones that actually like Rebuild.

That's nice.

This is why people shouldn't have overblown expectations.

I think if you go into Eva anything with expectations, you're doing it wrong.

Even if you're expecting it to be as cool as the friend who recommended it to you said it was?

Yes.

Well hey, nearly a decade in terms of waiting will do that to a film in terms of the expectations it has to live up to.

It's not the film's fault that people are entitled pricks who think that movies have any obligations to be good.

Well again, the more you delay something, the more it has to live up to. Why shouldn't one expect it be at the very least good? After all, the viewer still has a say in the matter.

edited 24th May '17 10:49:51 PM by LDragon2

I've enjoyed everything so far. I believe I'll enjoy what comes next.

What he said.

@L Dragon: There's no magic Law of Hype that dictates a work must meet x-level of expectations based on passage of time before release in order to be considered good. This isn't the Matrix where had completed the script and had a 600 page shot-by-shot storyboard of the entire thing created before even being given permission to direct. Final has been delayed multiple times, because it simply wasn't being worked on. We know that because Anno & Kara have been busy with other stuff. Anno taking the time to deal with his mental issues for one. Then the Animator's Expo, which is something that I am very thankful they did. And then Anno did Shin Godzilla, and based on how good that was, I feel more than comfortable saying that however "enjoyable" Final will be, it will certainly be satisfying.

For all intents and purposes, Final did not truly begin production until some time into Shin Godzilla's production. So, whenever it comes out, if you go into it acting as if it's been worked on and fine-tuned every day since 2012 (or even before), you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

Same with people who've been "waiting a decade" for certain video games from Square Enix.

I'm sorry if I'm not explaining my thoughts properly, but it sounds to me like you're expecting something that simply doesn't exist.

edited 25th May '17 9:49:05 AM by TheAirman

There are, however, people who whine like entitled little shits at the first sign of spoilers, either too stupid to believe or outright refusing to believe that if they seriously don't enjoy a movie if they know what's going to happen, they wouldn't have enjoyed it anyway, but instead are just bitching and moaning and looking to blame other people for not enjoying it.

It doesn't matter how good a movie is because some people are just impossible to satisfy.

Is Shin Godzilla any good? I have no interest in the franchise, sooooo...

The franchise is a main inspiration for Anno, and shin godzilla is on par with the original film, so...

General consensus is good, yeah. It's also very Eva-ish at times, both in Anno's directing and in Sagisu's music. At least three songs are straight up remixes of Eva's battle theme, and the entire soundtrack as a whole has a number of cues and elements that would be right at home in Eva.

Courtesy of the Evangelion movie Facebook page.◊

I don't get it