Dragon Ball Z Abridged

Here's a thought: was Cell just as wrong as Piccolo when he referred to "Cyborg 17 and 18"?

I mean, point to ol' bugface; 17 and 18 are modified humans rather than fully robotic androids. But they're also not the 17th and 18th successful cyborgs Gero made. I know that 8 and 16 were definitely androids, as was 19.

Maybe that's why they had Gero refer to Android 19 as just "19". Because at that point it'd be odd to call him "android 19".

Yeah, I suppose that calling them the 17th and 18th Cyborgs would be incorrect, but it is also possible that "Cyborgs 17 and 18" means "[The] Cyborgs [named] 17 and 18", the same way one could say "I am searching for Saiyans Nappa and Vegeta."

Good point about Gero calling 19 just that. That's some Fridge Brilliance right there.

edited 26th Mar '15 5:57:37 AM by JonnasN

They could all just be in his mind "android or cyborg" Project Number Whatever. That way, not only does it settle the word choice, but the non-canon ones don't have to be included, but can without contradiction.

Drake, however, is in the clear! Muwahahaha battle power battle power!

That was me!

With all the posturing, grandstanding, and sandbagging the characters do in the series, it tends not to matter if you're 1,000 or 1,000,0000 below the other guy, you're still going to put up the same performance before being shown how outclassed you are.

I was wrong, however. There is a fourth battle power, and that is Yamcha, who is the exception to the above rule. Krillin can parry Frieza's Second Form with battle powers of 75,000 to 1,000,000 all he wants, but Yamcha dies in one shot to enemies much closer to his level because Yamcha has a negative value where his battle power should be.

Battle powers aren't bullshit, but the actual numbers themselves don't matter as much as you'd think; what's more important is often just who's got the higher value.

Yamcha lost in the first round of the finals of every World Tournament he ever entered.

The wiki has a section about it. It's great.

I mean, Krillin has won matches because of things like not having a nose.

What the hell did I do? I dislike Power Levels as of late because they are so high that they make certain fights impossible and cause certain characters to be sidelined.

Truthfully, I think Toriyama should have made Frieza level (as strong as Frieza or a little stronger like Super Saiyan Goku) the highest and had other fighters be powerful due to other factors (the androids had never getting tired, Cell's dna cocktail of abilities, stuff like Guldo's time freeze and Ginyu's body swap, and Buu's regenerative abilities).

Like, there are guys as powerful as Frieza, but he had an established army and a big head start, so none of them wanted to make a move, then Goku kills them, and they rush in to fill the vacuum.

I also think he Android and Cell Saga's should have taken place before Frieza, so that the latter saga would be followed by Buu, but I haven't really thought that through.

But stuff like that is precisely why they're so much stronger, at least in the case of the Ginyus and Androids. Remember Piccolo was able to fight 17 on even terms for quite a while but had to give up due to getting tired. Heck, I don't even think the androids could power up at all, like their power levels were stagnant. Even when 19 absorbed energy if he used it in attacks it would just be gone again when he did it, and 17 and 18 can't do that.

Buu's absorbing abilities were also the reason why he was so strong (that and the fact that he was a superweapon specifically designed to be able to wipe out Kais, hence the Supreme Kai's utter ineffectiveness against him) because he gained the power of whoever he managed to absorb.

edited 26th Mar '15 8:21:56 AM by theLibrarian

Those abilities contributed - similar to how Nappa's incredible fighting prowess contributed to his curbstomp of the protagonists, including one fighter only 500 points below him - but their battle power was also just plain higher.

Infinite energy alone wouldn't have won Android 18 her fight with Super Saiyan Vegeta if her battle power wasn't so much higher than his. Fatigue made the difference between 17 and Piccolo specifically because their battle powers were too close for one to gain a sizable advantage over the other. That neither Android couldn't power up any further only became a factor after the Cell Saga ended, as a limiting factor keeping 18 from being relevant in the Buu Saga; she was already more than powerful enough in her own arc.

As for Buu, he had already outclassed Gohan, Gotenks, and Vegeta in his weakest form before he started absorbing folks.

edited 26th Mar '15 8:42:55 AM by TobiasDrake

Also, by knowing how much 9 - 1 is "Nine minus One equals Eight, bitch!"

And then there's that movie where Yamcha lost in a preliminary because he was slacking off, and fell into the water after someone accidentally pushed him. From a great height. And he could fly.

edited 26th Mar '15 9:00:14 AM by JonnasN

I think 17 and 18 can still get stronger through training, since they're not purely mechanical.

They're mechanical enough to have no ki signature at all.

Depends on which Gotenks you are talking about

edited 26th Mar '15 9:38:18 AM by Medigo03

And biological enough to have children.

Don't mix up Fat Buu as he was upon release with Fat Buu after he expelled his evil part (aka Good Buu, in contrast with Evil Buu); the second one is EXPLICITY stated to be much weaker.

Super Buu is basically Fat Buu without restrains (but has enough of a mind to not be a mere force of destruction). Good Buu is a mere shadow of what he started as.

Also, apparently not a weapon, but an ancient Eldrich Abomination Bibidi found and used to attack the Kais; the thing he created was the sealing spell.

So, mr. Buu as of the end of Z is weaker than when he was released from the egg, right?

Yeah, but having a ki signature is more relevant to raising battle power than children. Android 18's reproductive system is fully-functioning, but whatever processes her ki is gone, leaving her solely dependant on the infinite energy generator.

It's like not having lungs. An artificial lung may do your breathing for you, and it won't affect your ability to produce offspring in any way, but you'll never breathe under your own power again.

Yes, and the former is still weaker than Pure Buu. His battle power dropped as a result of Dai Kaioshin's innocence. Super Buu, by contrast, is the most powerful Buu, having all the advantages of increasing his battle power with absorption, but without the negative influence on his battle power that Dai Kaioshin introduced.

edited 26th Mar '15 9:52:46 AM by TobiasDrake

Is that how the generator works?

I was pretty sure it was similar enough to normal ki production (I can't recall if 17 ever did a "whoaaaa powering uuuup" sequence or not, though), but couldn't be sensed because it's a somewhat different form of energy than what they usually look for.

Isn't Mr. Buu also slightly shorter than Majin Buu, due to the loss in power?

Funnily enough, I think DBH counts Mr. Buu as a different character than Majin Buu.

edited 26th Mar '15 10:40:21 AM by Rinsankajugin

Well, Fat Buu's power dropped, but probably from Buff Buu's one, which apparently was still higher than Super Buu's.

Meh, all in all, Kid and Fat Buu have a power level of "around SSJ 3 Goku", while Super has one of "stronger than SSJ 3 Goku".

Yeah, Mr. Buu is smaller than Majin Buu.

That doesn't really make sense.

He's only one part of the greater whole that was Majin Buu, hence why he's smaller.

Kid Buu took that extra mass with him.

He's a small fat...

TFS PLAYS: DRAGONBALL XENOVERSE – 18 -