Dragon Ball Z Abridged

There's also the line where Goku says he's not sure if they can do anything to Kid Buu, but they'll try anyway.

Then again, after that he says that he'd be able to win if he was at full strength. Hm...

Hm... wouldn't that make base Super Buu and Kid Buu roughly on par with each other, rather than one being stronger? If Kid Buu is Buu's original state, before he absorbed Dai Kaioshin, and Super Buu is Buu with Dai Kaioshin, but reconfigured to not be restricted in power by his influence? Wouldn't that mean that the only influence from Dai Kaioshin would be his greater sense of sanity?

edited 24th Sep '13 5:18:42 PM by Enlong

No. Pure Boo is the Boo that absorbed South Kaioshin and Dai Kaioshin. South Kaioshin increased his strength, and Dai Kaioshin lowered it. Fat Boo could've even been stronger than Pure Boo (he's confirmed not to be, just saying it's possible).

Also, grey Boo absorbing Fat Boo could have been more than just accessing the power unrestricted. It could have had a result like fusion, where the result is greater than the sum of it's parts (like the fusion dance, or Cell absorbing the Androids).

edited 24th Sep '13 5:22:07 PM by Saiga

Huh. I thought that Fat Buu represented Buu with all those Kais absorbed, and Kid/Pure Buu was Buu in his original state, after Bibidi created him but before he absorbed anything.

edited 24th Sep '13 5:31:58 PM by Enlong

That is true. However, Super Buu is ALSO Pure Buu with the Kais absorbed, and much stronger because of it.

The fusion analogy applies in more ways than one: take a look at Fat Buu and compare him to Super Buu. It brings to mind fat Gotenks and normal Gotenks. Fat Buu was basically an imperfection fusion of Buu and the Kais, with the Kaioshin influence on top, while Super Buu was the 'correct' fusion, with the Majin influence being dominant, yet still juuuuuust restricted enough to allow Super Buu to be intelligent.

Or, if you want to get technical, Super Buu is basically just Pure Buu with Mr. Buu absorbed, and stronger because he has Mister Buu's powers, which mostly consist of South Kaioshin's powers. Yanking that out takes away those extra powers like any other absorption.

But whatever theory about the mechanics you go by, Super Buu is stronger than Pure Buu. Goku's not the only one that says this. Oh, and Goku can do this thing called "sense ki"; it's how he was able to tell that Super Buu was unbeatable without at least Gogeta (and unbeatable as Buuhan even WITH Gogeta), while Pure Buu was someone he could fight alone.

And Goku was not talking about using full strength when gathering his ki, he meant wiping out Buu with one big blast. The fact that he considered that a viable option against Pure Buu and not Super Buu should be enough of an indication that Super Buu is a giant and Goku is a bug.

edited 24th Sep '13 5:40:58 PM by sockpuppet1

That's true, it's just that there was an stage inbetween Fat Boo and Pure Boo after the South Kaioshin was absorbed, and the South Kaioshin-absorbed Boo was the one who was weakened.

Unbeatable as Buuhan with Gogeta? But Gogeta only fought him as Buuhan and utterly wrecked him, didn't he? Buu only survived that fight because Gogeta wanted to go on a fantastic voyage to free the guys fused to him.

Who else? I honestly only recall Goku saying it shortly after Buu's transformation.

Gogeta is the EU fusion dance version, Vegetto is the potara version. Potara is stronger than the fusion dance.

As was said, Gogeta never fought Buuhan. Vegetto did. Vegetto is many times stronger than Gogeta, possibly hundreds of times stronger.

Super Buu, for one. And Piccolo, indirectly, with his reaction to Gotenks.

I just remembered. When Goku first showed off SS 3, he fought Fat Buu with it, right? It's been a while since I've seen that part, but why didn't he try and take him out there? Because we know that Kid Buu is stronger than Fat Buu; the two fought in the final battle.

Because Goku is an idiot.

Originally, he said he couldn't be sure if he would have won.

Later, this is retconned in him deliberately not beating Boo so that he could leave it to Goten and Trunks.

It was a necessary retcon for Goku to plausibly stand a chance against Boo, but it made him look really irresponsible.

edited 24th Sep '13 6:01:21 PM by Saiga

I see.

Well, I think I can see now that Kid Buu is weaker than Super Buu. But I don't think he's weak by any stretch of the imagination. I do believe that that last Spirit Bomb (or at least the detonation) is the single strongest energy attack seen in the series.

Vegetto probably could have made something stronger, though, if he really wanted to annihilate Buu.

edited 24th Sep '13 6:10:09 PM by Enlong

Regarding the earlier questions about Fat, Super, and Kid Buu:

Kid Buu is his default form. Both Fat Buu and Super Buu are the result of him absorbing two Kais. The same components, but arranged differently. Super Buu is basically unfettered and tapping into the full power of his absorbees, whereas Fat Buu was rendered so docile as to be weaker than he was before.

edited 24th Sep '13 6:10:41 PM by Anomalocaris20

It really wasn't. We saw Mr. Buu fight Pure Buu; we NEVER saw Fat Buu fighting him. So Goku's line is the only thing really putting Pure Buu higher in the context of the manga, and it didn't even need to be there.

Any single one of those generic ki blasts Gotenks fired at Buu were stronger than the Spirit Bomb. By far. The Spirit Bomb wasn't even close to x2 Pure Buu, while Gotenks was far over x2 Pure Buu. Dozens of Spirit Bombs wouldn't even have left a scratch on any of the three Fusion Saga giants.

Technically speaking the strongest energy attack ever seen in the manga would be Buuhan's Kamikaze Ghosts.

edited 24th Sep '13 6:14:41 PM by sockpuppet1

Super Buu (Gohan) > Super Buu (Gotenks) > Super Buu (Piccolo) > Super Buu > Kid Buu > Fat Buu > Evil Buu > Good Buu.

The "Mr. Buu" that fights Kid Buu is presumably somewhere below Fat Buu, not sure where in regard to the good and evil halves from earlier.

I don't see why it would be. Destroying Kid Boo isn't such a spectacular feat.

Not necessarily. Fatso was never at full power until the very moment of the split, so Mr. Buu can be stronger than him. Or stronger than the one Goku fought, at least. And Full Power Fat Buu should be stronger than Pure Buu.

edited 24th Sep '13 6:17:48 PM by sockpuppet1

I think grey Boo is actually stronger than Pure Boo, just looking at their respective fights against Mr. Boo.

Are those the same Mr. Buus, though?

Good Buu + Evil Buu = Super Buu = Kid Buu + Mr. Buu

If Good Buu was still Good Buu when they ripped him out of Supes, shouldn't he have just reverted to Evil Buu rather than his original form? Did they redistribute between each other some time during Buu's absorption?

I dunno anymore.

edited 24th Sep '13 6:19:19 PM by Anomalocaris20

And why not? I still don't get why Kid Buu is to be considered weak. Weaker than Super Buu, sure, but not by that huge a margin.

I got the impression that the reason Kid Buu was able to prevent the detonation of the Spirit Bomb is because he was overpowering Goku's ability to force it down, rather than the bomb itself. Goku certainly looked like he was trying to push it, even though he wasn't touching it.

edited 24th Sep '13 6:23:11 PM by Enlong

By this point, Toriyama was pretty much writing by the seat of his pants, so I try not to think too much about the Buu Saga.

edited 24th Sep '13 6:21:18 PM by maxwellelvis

If Kid Buu is truly the original Kid Buu from millions of years ago, that means the Fat Buu that was ripped out of him must be almost entirely the remnants of the two Kais, with only a tiny bit of Buu in them to make them a pink bubblegum monster.

Which would mean the Kid Buu Goku fought is only, like, 99% of the original from before...?

Gah, this is confusing.

edited 24th Sep '13 6:24:30 PM by Anomalocaris20

Conservation of anything means nothing to Buu. He's like a squishy, evil, matryoshka doll. Except each doll is as big, or bigger, than the one before.

x6 Why? All he did was reflect an attack back a weakend opponent, how does that make him stronger than "Pure"? He's only a half.

edited 24th Sep '13 6:28:40 PM by randomness4

But then why is there two Buus at once if one of them is 100% OG?

Did he create more pink blob matter and that's what Mr. Buu is?

If they're made of the same stuff, could they control each other's bodies since they can fully control their own?