A Song Of Ice And Fire

As if there were every any doubt :P

Bear in mind that the timeline supports Theon's preview chapter happening before Jon's final one — so it's entirely possible that he's alive at the beginning of TWOW, dies, then the Pink Letter is sent and is still true.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.

Hmmm... could someone remind me what the Pink Letter is again? I think I know what it is, but just to be sure...

It's the letter Ramsay sent to the Watch claiming that he had murdered Stannis.

It was a difficult delivery, now it's growing up mean and strong.

Was that the same letter that contained someone's flayed skin?

That doesn't narrow down Ramsey's letters.

Alleged Ramsay letters.

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Look on the bright side, at least in this there's no "twenty good men" or "all of my cavalry will defect from me to a guy that flays people" moments.

People only live until Gurm decides to kill them.

And there are theories (one I find very compelling) that somebody else wrote the Pink Letter. Personally I agree that it wasn't Ramsay, but we'll have to wait and see.

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.

I think it was Ramsay that wrote it. I mean how does it make sense for anyone else to do it?

GRRM says that Stannis is alive within the "books'' then that means he's alive as of the end of ADWD which means the pink letter is partially a lie.

Theon's TWOW chapter taking place before his supposed death would have no bearing as it's chronologically before Jon's last chapter and not within a published book yet.

edited 6th Sep '15 2:41:44 PM by MadSkillz

"You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty."

Ramsay could also be taunting and trying to save face. Considering who Stannis is up against I doubt that he'll lose. Guys of dubious loyalty that hate one another? Bad supply situation or not those still leave Stannis with pretty good odds.

edited 6th Sep '15 3:38:18 PM by theLibrarian

I've seen a theory that it was a coded message written by Mance and intended for Mel.

edited 6th Sep '15 3:38:50 PM by doineedaname

I recall reading that theory and the author is pretty much crazy.

The big red flag is that they frequently cite incredibly dubious or circumstantial evidence that can be more easily interpreted in other ways. If you're going to argue something, you should just present the strong evidence, not try to interpret every single word in favor of your theory.

I mean there's a good chance that Mance did write the letter, but that post is doing itself no favors and the evidence that it's a coded message is laughable.

But whether Mance or Ramsay wrote it, I think it's highly unlikely that Stannis lost the battle. It's more likely that Ramsay only thinks he won.

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From GRRM: NOT EVERY DETAIL IS A CLUE MOST OF YOUR THEORIES ARE ERRONEOUS THEY ARE JUST WORDS

I don't know what Mance would have to gain from writing the pink letter.

edited 6th Sep '15 11:50:16 PM by MadSkillz

"You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty."

I've thought about this as well, although not in as much detail as some others. Whoever wrote the letter knows a lot of information that wasn't known to a lot of people. The deception of Mance Rayder's death, his spearwives, the baby, Reek. Also it's only been Wildlings who refer to the Night's Watch as "crows".

Somebody would have to be very observant to learn all these things. Somebody who had been present at a lot of meetings and with high-level access to important people. It would have to be somebody who was trusted implicitly. Somebody who had interacted with or knew a lot about wildlings, Stannis, the Boltons, and Jon Snow. Somebody who knew just how sadistic and depraved Ramsay is. And somebody with intimate knowledge of Winterfell.

Come to think of it, there's only one person I can think of who meets all that criteria.

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.

Ramsay could easily have tortured that information out of Mance though.

Not true actually. They call the NW that south of the Wall too.

edited 7th Sep '15 3:44:04 AM by MadSkillz

"You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty."

Come to think of it, there's only one person I can think of who meets all that criteria.

Are you suggesting it was Theon? I saw someone mention that before, but I'm not sure what the evidence is.

Anyway, I still think Ramsay is the most likely author, but there's too much ambiguity to rule out other authors.

Obviously, it was really Grey Worm.

edited 7th Sep '15 6:29:21 AM by storyyeller

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Uh... now I'm not sure I knew Abel was Mance, or if I only discovered that reading that theory yesterday...

I certainly didn't notice it while reading the books. I didn't even notice the Frey pies thing. I think it was reading the Winterfell Huis Clos that explained it all to me.

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Oh, I also didn't get the Frey pies thing. Well, kinda. I think I already knew about it before I read the book, but I didn't realize when it was supposed to come up.

Not ASOIAF, but when I was reading Rick Riordan's Percy Jackson and the Olympians, I only discovered one of the main characters was blonde in the last scene of the last book. Then I went back to the first book and saw they mentioned it in the fist scene that character appeared in. Sometimes I just forgot how characters look like and I just picture them however the hell I want in my head >_<

Game of Thrones has helped me because I'm able to picture every character as their show selves xD

I only discovered one of the main characters was blonde in the last scene of the last book. Then I went back to the first book and saw they mentioned it in the fist scene that character appeared in. Sometimes I just forgot how characters look like and I just picture them however the hell I want in my head

That happens to me all the time, probably because I subconsciously skip over descriptions of characters in books. I was shocked when the first Harry Potter movie came out and Malfoy turned out to be blond.

Which kinds of sucks for A Game Of Thrones, where the hair colors are actually a plot point.

Game of Thrones has helped me because I'm able to picture every character as their show selves

I heard that a few characters, like Syrio differ from the book descriptions. And of course everybody's aged up and Tyrion is far more handsome.

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Well Syrio is supposed to be slight, bald man with a beak nose. Like this.◊

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Bran◊ is supposed to have auburn hair and blue eyes as are Rickon and Sansa(auburn not red hair). And Jon doesn't have black hair(common mistake) nor curly hair. He has dark brown hair and gray eyes. TV Arya's got her character's coloring except for the long face.

Ned looks like this.◊

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Melisandre actually has light brown copper looking hair and red eyes not red hair and blue eyes. She's also supposed to look like she's in her 20's.

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Theon Greyjoy is supposed to lean, dark and handsome.◊ The Greyjoys get their coloring from Hoare kings. "The Hoare kings were] black of hair, black of eye, and black of heart."

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Jaime, Cersei and their kids all have long curly golden-blonde hair.

Tyrion has a green and black eye. His hair is 'pale (not golden like his siblings) blonde and black. Also GRRM said that Peter Dinklage is a foot taller than the actual Tyrion.

Tywin shaves his head and face except for his mutton chops.

Shae is actually Westerosi and an 17-19 year old girl when we first meet her.

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Littlefinger has no mustache. He has a small pointed beard.

Book Samwell is much heavier than his TV counterpart. He weighs 280 lbs.◊

Ramsay has thick worm-shaped lips like Joffrey actually. Also he's hideous and sometimes wears earrings.

Edmure Tully◊

Ygritte isn't supposed to be attractive. At least not conventionally so. She's more strange-looking.

Shireen should have black hair and blue eyes with large ears and her dad's square jaw. Not pretty at all.

Robert should have blue eyes and black hair just like Renly. Also the actor's half a foot too short and not obese enough to be Robert who had multiple chins.◊

Stannis should look exactly like this.◊

And a big one is that Brienne is supposed to have long, blonde hair not short hair.

edited 7th Sep '15 2:31:06 PM by MadSkillz

"You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty."

So Ned was basically the only one that was right. :p

My various fanfics.

Peter Dinklage is a foot taller than the actual Tyrion.

Pretty sure dwarfs don't come that short. He'd be like a literal imp.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.