A Song Of Ice And Fire

I'm not really saying this was ever a serious option. It's just the best potential option the had assuming a lot of miraculous events coincided.

edit: Maybe it would have worked out if Catelyn convinced Robb to trade Jaime for Sansa.

edited 31st Jan '15 9:40:42 PM by Kostya

1) I said he's a little too closely related. I didn't he's too closely related to marry her. Don't assume.

2) Robb would have to put his crown on hold to make Rickon the king on the Iron Throne. Not a bad deal.

3) Yes but hindsight is 20/20. I didn't say Stannis would know. We're just talking about the most ideal options.

edited 31st Jan '15 9:41:49 PM by MadSkillz

1) A marriage between Loras and Sansa? I doubt it. Mace had a chance to have a Queen in the family. The only way I can see a Stark/Tyrell alliance is if Robb went for the Iron Throne and he's to honorable to do that.

2) Honestly, Tywin got lucky. On the surface the Lannisters were enemies of the Tullys, Starks, Arryns and Baratheons. They were always the outsiders in the Roberts Rebellion Alliance. The Reach would probably join in exchange for Margaery becoming Queen. The Martells hate them more than anyone else and the Greyjoys might invade while they're weak.

edited 31st Jan '15 9:46:31 PM by 940131

Well if Robb had kept up his King in the North thing then Margery still would have been a queen. She'd just be a different kind of queen.

A Queen of a much weaker Kingdom though. Robb had the Riverlands and the North. If she married a Baratheon she could have had it all.

Assuming the idea was proposed after the Baratheons, Starks, and Tullys had already allied with the Arryns and Martells they probably would have accepted just because the Lannisters were a lost cause.

But the Arryns (Lysa) have no interest in removing the Lannisters. And the Martells (Doran) have no interest in the Lannisters or Baratheons being on the Iron Throne.

But the Martells do hate the Lannisters way more than they hate the Baratheons.

Actually the Martells are probably rather indifferent to the actual Baratheons minus maybe Robert.

Definitely. The Martells hate the Lannisters far more than the Baratheons, but they're still Targ supporters.

Stannis will already hold the North if he kills the Boltons; not only did he smash the Ironborn he also saved the Night's Watch. Marching down and freeing the Riverlands from the Freys could also help him, so he'll have half the strength of Westeros behind him.

I think there's a good chance that the North will rally behind Jon Snow and snub Stannis, leading to him becoming the Night King.

The Riverlands and the North aren't half the strength of Westeros.

Why would Jon Snow aka AA/Lightbringer be the Night's King?

I doubt he'll take an Other for a wife and lead them.

edited 31st Jan '15 10:26:53 PM by MadSkillz

I think Storyteller meant Stannis would become the Night King.

When did the Targs marry uncle to niece all the time, btw? I can only think of two occassions. Daemon and Rhaenyra and Maegor and Princess Rhaena, and the latter was forced on the poor thing.

I didn't say all the time. I said that it's allowed.

I don't get this common idea that someone will "become" the Night's King. The Night's King is a specific character in the lore, he's not some cycling position that Jon or Stannis or whoever can just claim. Even assuming that the Others would let someone like them into their ranks, it wouldn't make them the Night's King.

Mainly for the parallelism of someone becoming Azhor Ahai.

The Night's King didn't fight Azhor Assai though. He was a Lord-Commander of the Night's Watch who started making sacrifices to The Others, and essentially declared himself King of The Wall. He got put down by The-King-In-The-North and The-King-Beyond-The-Wall. Azhor Assai had nothing to do with it.

Assuming the show isn't diverging majorly from the books I'm expecting the Night's King to show up in person in The Winds of Winter.

Why? Is he in the show?

Possibly. One of the episodes ended with a White Walker appearing and turning one of Craster's children into another White Walker. The HBO website description referred to him as Night's King in the cast list but that was quickly changed. It's either a mistake or they spoiled something by accident. I think Martin also said that book 6 would take us to The Land of Always Winter where the White Walkers come from so it wouldn't surprise me if he turned up as their leader.

GRRM only said that we'll see further north than we have before.

I still think the Night King's name is Jon Snow as Ygritte gets spooked out when Jon tells her his name. (And remember the Wildlings don't have a stigma against bastards)

They may not be half of the North's strength, but if Stannis liberates the North, then the Riverlands, and he has the Martells attacking from the South, the Lannisters will be hard-pressed to come at them, because the armies of the Reach would be tied up defending themselves from the Dornish and the Westerlands are essentially exhausted. Plus, if the Vale is convinced to help (even though that's sort of unlikely with Littlefinger acting as Lord Protector) that'll be another force in their corner. Maybe the Stormlands can be freed as well, if the Dornish make an alliance with the Golden Company, considering they're led by an (apparent) Targaryen.

The Westerlands still have a sizable army. Comparable to the North (although not the North and the Riverlands combined). The Tyrells are fresh and for the most part at full strength. Alone they're comparable to the North and the Riverlands. The Lannisters also have the Crownlands and maybe the Stormlands. They're position isn't great, but it's not much worse than their enemies.

edited 1st Feb '15 1:50:59 PM by 940131

The Stormlands won't aid the Lannisters and the Crownlands barely even came to the help of the Lannisters.

Also Bronn as Lord Stokeworth would probably switch allegiances if anyone goes against Cersei.

The North actually has more men than Lannisters because the Lannisters even had to call in their reserves (because of how devastating Robb was in battles) whereas Robb didn't muster the whole strength of the North when he went south as he didn't have the time.

Notice how Stannis was able to get 3000 men from just the Mountain Clans.

Only in some places are the North heavily depleted like Last Hearth and Karhold.

edited 1st Feb '15 2:11:59 PM by MadSkillz