The Dark Knight Rises (no spoilers)

And there's a reason for that. I did not appreciate the feeling that I was being preached at in The Dark Knight. It felt very wrong and out of place in a superhero movie. To be perfectly frank, I think Nolan could have and should have just made his own characters instead of using Batman as his personal mouth piece.

Ok that's good.

Umm, I find it refreshing to have a superhero movie especially like the Dark Knight have something different in those themes. Plus when I watched the film I never felt like they were throwing the themes in my face, in fact I thought they did it very subtly. I think you have too much of a problem with this, why bother complaining about it anyway?

edited 22nd Jul '12 1:05:56 AM by JRPictures

Subtly? I personally thought they were as blatant as can be. Well, I didn't find it refreshing. I found it insulting.

Because it's the internet and I have the right to express what I think. Don't tell me not to again.

edited 22nd Jul '12 1:07:14 AM by WinterWorlock

Well we all have different opinions. But still why are you complaining about this? What do you even hope to gain from this argument?

Because I'm angry that Nolan ruined a perfectly good plot by letting it get bogged down in unnecessary crap and feel like venting.

I think you should vent that anger in a better way than complaining it to people who will argue against it.

Considering that there will be people who will argue against it anywhere I go, here is as good as anywhere.

Fair enough but I think you should calm down a bit on the whole issue.

I am calm. Very displeased, but calm.

Hopefully, the reboot's filmmakers will know where to step off and just let Batman by Batman.

EDIT: Batman: The Animated Series will forever be superior to Nolan's Dark Knight saga.

edited 22nd Jul '12 1:18:26 AM by WinterWorlock

See this: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13424715610A95683000&page=1

Please stop being a self-righteous dick and cut it out.

The politics in Batman. It was horrible. Grotesque. Unforgivable. I almost left the room. Why mix comix and politics like that? Why oh why tell me this kind of message? It is such a heavy message! A real manifesto!

Nolan, those aren't characters, those are mouthpieces, and using DC characters I know and love for such a vile, vile purpose is sick and wrong and disgusting! Ugh, I can't stand it, I'm so angry!

And since my anger is so abundant, and I think people would benefit from it, here I am, sharing it with all of you! Am I not generous! Come on, here's some anger! Wanna piece of me? Here, you got it! Come on, people, I'm sharing anger, there's not that much to go 'round, come have your share! Fresh, juicy anger!

edited 22nd Jul '12 1:25:19 AM by TheHandle

You say why, I say why not? LEARN TO SAY YES TO LIFE! Lots of wonderful things are unnecessary. Like boobies. Boobies do not need to be as big as they are. Yet, don't they make life a little more wonderful?

So you admit that Nolan didn't need to shove his political views down our throats using Batman?

Well, I don't see the point of debating the need for him to do something he has not done. That said, supposing he had, there are many, many things that he did not need to do, doesn't mean it's a bad thing he did them. I did not need to reply to your post, yet here I am.

Here's a little story:

When I first watched The Dark Knight, it introduced me to an ideal about Batman I had never thought about beforehand. That he was a symbol of hope and hero to a city full of a crime and corruption. He was the shining light in all the darkness. He was one of the few who could really help all the people in Gotham. Even if it was all at his own expense, he wanted to help everyone in anyway he can.

Gordon's words "He's the hero Gotham deserves but not the one it needs right now." stood out to me in that regard. And this exchange in Rises "You do not owe these people anymore. You've given them everything." "Not everything not yet." was also big.

Sure it's not political but it's meaningful and is one the reasons why the Dark Knight is one of my favourite movies of all time and a major inspiration to me.

If you can approach any Batman movie or story with that ideal in mind then anything bad will simply go away.

(Note: That might be the most heartfelt thing I've said in ages)

@ The Handle: Uh, yeah, he did. His films are so thick with his political commentary you can cut it with a knife, and it's all from his mind. Sorry, not buying the "what do you mean it's not political" bit.

@ JR: "And this exchange in Rises "You do not owe these people anymore. You've given them everything." "Not everything not yet." was also big."

... ... Oh boy, that right there just ruins Batman. The very idea that he would ever quit is absolute hogwash. And no, I don't count that stupid Dark Knight Returns as canon. "Owing anyone" was never what it was about and should never be what it was about. Batman should remain Batman for as long as Gotham needs him, which is forever. That right there is the reason I prefer the work of Bruce Timm to this.

edited 22nd Jul '12 1:47:45 AM by WinterWorlock

Eh, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just don't shove it like everyone's throat like it was fact instead of perception.

It is fact that Batman isn't doing this because anyone's owed it. It's about doing what's right in a town that has a lot of wrong in it. You can go ahead and like Nolan's perception of The Dark Knight, though.

And here I was hoping to have an actual discussion about the themes of TDKR and Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy

I'm tempted to put on a suit, slam a couple of tropers into walls and growl "WHERE IS THE DISCUSSION! WHERRRRE IS IT!"

Well at least I said something heartfelt that mildly discussed some of the themes. This whole political issue seems to be too overblown and should just end.. or be stopped by Batman.

Don't blame me for what Canon Batman is.

Eh, they're all equal to me. To be honest, I hate, hate, hate the notion of Comes Great Responsibility. You don't owe the world to help them, you only do it if you want to. I also despise obligation, debt, and duty.

But that doesn't mean I can't find it poignant when a character does that, though I consider it a Tragic Flaw.

guys just ignore the ignorant one. continue with intellectual conversation, don't let him derail it.

Eh, I wouldn't say anyone owes that to the world, but I do consider that if someone had the power to stop death or widespread destruction... well, they might as well do it. If they don't step up, who will?

edited 22nd Jul '12 2:05:11 AM by cutewithoutthe