Scooby Doo: Mystery Inc

But again, like I said, a lot of people lump bi in with gay when they are talking about gay people.

It's on a different context, though. LGBTQ people sometimes simply refer to themselves as "gay" for shorthand. But in this case, he's specifically saying Velma is only attracted to women.

Well, its fine either way. Its all basically fanon anyway, except for that last season.

My memory was jogged in the series he was attracted to other girls and Velma was visibily jealous over it, he's not Aro/Ace like Jughead but more like Ace/Hetereo meaning he does like girls but not in a sexual way. I am only saying it for this series, but in other series I think Shaggy is fully Hetereo due his extensive love life.

Hetero is the standard, so that pretty much goes without saying for older series.

If I recall correctly, Korra and Asami being a couple was confirmed to be a couple almost immediately after the show ended. And after a lot of Ship Tease starting in Season 3. It also helps that Korra is the main character and Asami is part of Team Avatar so of course, more people would notice. And even, there are people who accuse the creators for simply riding on the wave or being too subtle with teases.

This is honestly the first time I heard that Mystery Incorporated Velma was a lesbian though I have to admit, I only watched a few episodes of the first season where Velma explicitly had a crush on Shaggy and only broke up with him when it becomes clear that he's more preoccupied with his best friend Scooby.

So consequently, the recent revelation comes across as Word of Gay despite the subtext. And honestly, today's standard went from subtle subtext to we can now show it rather than tell it. First in tie-in comics like Korra, then on the silverscreen with Steven Universe and She-Ra.

Edited by Shadao on Jul 14th 2020 at 9:47:44 AM

Well, I wouldn't call it a lot of ship tease, but yes, it was certainly there in Korra. And yes, the ship tease was rather subtle. It was the plausible deniability sort of lesbian teasing right up until that kiss.

As for Velma, I can't say I really picked up on it, so that last episode where they are suddenly room mates came rather out of the blue for me. But then I'm not always good at picking up that sort of thing.

She-Ra is better about it, though still falls somewhat in plausible deniability territory (at least in the first season), what with Catra acting like an actual affectionate cat and all.

Edited by Redmess on Jul 14th 2020 at 6:51:35 PM

Korra also spent around two seasons dating Mako as well. I think that's more time than Velma spent dating Shaggy. But that doesn't mean she ends up with him.

Also, I think a lot of people trying to judge that clarification by today's standards ignore that it was a different time 10 years ago. They're saying that the show should've just come out and done it, but Mystery Inc came out before Korra and Steven Universe, and even then, those shows had an uphill battle. Even She-Ra had some difficulty getting its rep approved.

The thing is the Hot Dog Water subtext was there, but they went full blown lesbian and try to retcon her into feeling uncomfortable with her relationship with Shaggy when onscreen depiction was there of her having genuine interest in other guys besides him. I really don't see it being complusery heterosexuality as many people claim it is.

Korra did spend two seasons with Mako but that's fine because she's bi. Nobody tried to say that she's exclusively gay.

What other guys? The only other example in the series I've seen listed besides Shaggy are the Orc Bikers, and rewatching that scene, she was just friendly to them because they shared interests. Daphne was the one trying to kiss one, and that was because she was mad at Fred.

There was no kiss, even in the final scene.

It seems like that's how it usually works when you have a character that initially was presented as heterosexual, but is then later shown as gay. There's no period of the character feeling confused, or questioning their sexuality. Its just "yeah, I'm gay now".

You asked why people were more tolerable with Korra and Asami being revealed to be an Official Couple over Velma being revealed as a lesbian. And I said it's because that revelation happened almost immediately, perhaps within a few hours, of the finale that ended with a very implicit Ship Tease. Thus, people easily accepted the circumstances there. Had the creators took years to confirm Korrasami is canon, you would see a similar backlash as with Velma.

Notice how people acted as if this was a new development or retcon despite being over 10 years? Something tells me the revelation came too late, and in a time where people question the problematic nature of Word of Gay. Do note that when Scooby Doo Mystery Incorporated ended, it was in April 5, 2013. The last episode of The Legend of Korra aired on December 19, 2014.

Edited by Shadao on Jul 14th 2020 at 2:42:35 AM

Oh, you're right, it was an almost kiss. See, plausible deniability again. Though that one was stretching it.

Thankfully the Korra comics firmly put an end to the coy "are they or are they not" teasing. They full on admit that they are a couple now. They even make a little tour amongst all the main characters to gauge their opinions. They're all fine with it. They also insist that homosexuality totally was a part of their cultures all along, just not... talked about.

I was expecting slightly more conflict than that, but oh well, at least it is canon now.

I heard about it back then, but didn't feel like talking about it. That was shortly after Korrasami, and it was just a neat little bonus to me.

I think part of the reason people found it easier accepting Korra as lesbian was that she was a "new" character (the show was only four years old, after all), while Velma is a decades old mainstay of pop culture across multiple series. I also think it kind of shattered many a male fan's cartoon crush...

Edited by Redmess on Jul 14th 2020 at 12:27:30 PM

It's only that iteration of Velma. However, in that iteration there wasn't hint that Velma was uncomfortable. It's a case of Show, Don't Tell at work. It would work if it was confirmed she was Bi. A lot of men wouldn't mind her being lesbian if the show actually showed it. Like with Ritchie from Static Shock who was confirmed gay by the creator of the show, by demonstrating on-screen he was in the closet by trying too hard to seem into girls.

Edited by firewriter on Jul 14th 2020 at 3:39:51 AM

I get why people would say it's not impressive to state something after the show ended when it seems to contradict the facts.

I don't get people saying he did it for brownie points or whatever. It seems clear to me that this is an offhand comment he made after the show was over because people wanted to know. Instagram comments are like the least efficient way of getting a message across, so I doubt he attended it to blow up. Also the fact that it took like five years for anyone to notice says it all.

Edited by Joshbones on Jul 14th 2020 at 5:31:58 AM

As I pointed out earlier, I did notice, and it was already on the work page by then, I think.

And the other time it was confirmed was in an obscure podcast by another producer, and that didn't pick up steam at all.

Perhaps this show didn't build a fanbase the way Korra did?

That as well. It's fairly well-known, but not enough to have a huge fanbase.

BTW, a Twitter user took a clip from Watson's podcast confirmation so you don't have to skip to the part.

I am just very, very annoyed that writers still seem to pretend that bisexuality doesn’t exist.

That's not what they're doing. Just that this specific storyline is about a lesbian forcing herself into a relationship she really isn't into. If Velma were bisexual, she would have a different dilemma.

Also, it's not like we don't have any bi reps at all in Western Animation. There's Korra, Asami, Marceline, Luna Loud, Star Butterfly, Kaldur'ahm, Enid, etc. I'm sure I'm forgetting more.

Star is bi?

Apparently because of both her romance with Marco and her constant blushing around a female character. I think it might've been confirmed as well, but I'm not certain.

The podcast Unmasking the History of Scooby Doo is talking to people involved in this series for the month of September. Today's interview is with co-showrunner Mitch Watson, and then the following interviews include Roger Eschbacher, Derrick J. Wyatt, and Victor Cook.