Harry Potter And The Methods Of Rationality

Obligatory.

Related: I am mildly disappointed that Harry didn't name his army for the 509th Composite Group. It would have been amusing to see how some people reacted, particularly Quirrell and Dumbledore...

edited 9th Sep '12 10:25:29 AM by Exetera

Well, it wouldn't just have been those two ^losing their shit, it would have been Snape as well. He's from the normal world as much as he is from the Wizard world, after all. And he knows his history.

^Losing their shit would be the least of it, though.

Snape hasn't lived in the muggle world since he was going back for Hogwarts vacations. Having a muggle upbringing doesn't mean catching every single historical reference. I don't think he'd get it without looking it up. I'm not so sure about Dumbledore and Quirrell.

Anyway, I don't think Harry would like the symbolism of that name.

Probably not, but it would still have been amusing to read.

I'm going to have to file two bugs on this story.

First bug is on the narrator, Chapter 50, who says "And afterward people did say fewer nasty things about Hermione, at least in the first year, at least in public where Harry Potter might hear about it," which very obviously did not last through the entirety of the first year.

Second bug is on Dumbledore, Chapter 61. He reportedly examined Harry for evidence of involvement in the Azkaban break-in; however, he apparently failed to check the obvious thing. During the break-in, Dumbledore ordered his Patronus to memorize Harry's, with instructions to be able to remember it should it be unsummoned and then resummoned. Dumbledore should have asked Harry to resummon his Patronus and checked to see if his own recognized it. I can understand why it might be bad to patch Dumbledore, but it probably wouldn't be too hard to patch chapter 56, where he gives that order to his Patronus.

edited 10th Sep '12 2:15:28 PM by Exetera

First bug: 'in the first year' refers not to the period of time, but to the group of students.

Second bug: Hmm, that is a question. Interesting. I wonder if it's a legitimate plot hole, or if there's some IC or otherwise clever explanation?

First bug: ... Ah, you seem to be right. Might still be better to phrase it less ambiguously, say "among the first-years" instead of "in the first year," but I guess that isn't very important.

2nd bug: "Can you find it?" The silver head nodded again. "Will you remember it, should it depart and come again?" A final nod from the blazing phoenix.

Dumbledore's patronus could recognize harry's if harry's disappeared and was recast. We do not know if it could if the pheonix were recast. Though it is still somewhat awkward.

That would just raise a different kind of ambiguity, since it could mean that first years became less likely to speak ill of her, or it could mean that people became less likely to speak ill of her when they were around first years.

I wouldn't expect many people to misunderstand it, but then, I didn't think it was hard to parse in the first place, so I'm not sure it would improve matters.

Snape is smart and he knows his history. At least this verse's Snape is smart. I was never sure about Rowling's version.

There's no particular indication that the Patronus wouldn't remember across summonings, either. Patronuses have been shown to remember things across materializations/dematerializations, as in long-distance messaging, so by default I'd assume they would unless it's demonstrated otherwise in the series.

Harry James Potter Evans Verres has achieved The Tyson Zone... no, the fic itself has achieved it as well...

I thought "Will you remembeer it should it depart and come again?" referred to Dumbledore asking the Patronus to continue to scan for Patronus activity and notify Dumbledore if another popped up, not memorise Harry's Patronus's magical signature.

No, that's just wrong; the Aurors all resummoned their Patronuses afterwards. Dumbledore had told his Patronus to search out that particular other one; since there were a lot of other Patronuses around it must have memorized something about Harry's distinct from all the other Patronuses.

edited 18th Sep '12 5:49:41 AM by Exetera

Yup. Agreed. Dumbledore's phrasing was that precise. He just didn't ask his patronus one very simple question.

Had that patronus seen the strange one cast previously? Which of course it had. When Harry killed the Dementor.

See, that one I'm willing to give Dumbledore and his Patronus; it might not have bothered memorizing Harry's Patronus the last time. It has no excuse after the break-in, however.

edited 18th Sep '12 2:58:16 PM by Exetera

Hmm. Seeing as how no other Patronus spell in history is quite like HJPEV's version, I would want my patronus, if I was Dumbledore's, to bloody well remember it in every detail. That is, if patronus spells, in general, have a degree of self-awareness (which is implied by the story).

[Sorry, new accounts cannot post external links.]

Regarding the self-awareness, I'm not so sure of that. The fic seems to present it more as the patronus being an actual outpouring of the caster's psyche. When Harry's Patronus 2.0 jumps in front of the AK Quirrell casts at Bahry, it seems to do so because Harry wills it to.

And when he's working out how to send messages with a patronus, it comes down to willing that the message be given. Is it still self-awareness if it's a part of you?

Well, Dumbledore's patronus is able to answer questions, indeed, it is able to comprehend the very existence of such a thing as a question. That ability isn't found much in other places other than amongst humans or patroni.

That's a pretty big assumption. Snakes can be controlled and made to follow complex orders and it's more likely they're being controlled in some form of magic interface that uses the users mental power or his intent instead of the snake's brain power. The patronus could be using the casters brain.

Asking something if it knows some information would be a pretty reasonable basis to make that assumption. Why frame a question with those words, in fact, why ask a question at all instead of issuing orders if it is something that your own brain controls?

You would already know it, surely? And, more importantly, would be able to see through its eyes?

If Dumbledore could do that, Bellatrix would not have got out of Azkaban at all...

A parselmouth can also send a snake to gather information though.

As for why ask something a question that your own brain controls, you may not be controlling it with the part of your brain that's aware of the information you're asking.

http://namethief.tumblr.com/post/32231892745

I feel like this is relevant to the thread.

Yep. Relevant and funny, 8-)