During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Oh, Dr. Ahriman? He's on the list already.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to both Koontz baddies (unless Shaddack is presented as a WIE for wanting to remove the human conscience, but that seems HIGHLY unlikely). And Dracman is an AWESOME name.
the Koontz baddies. You weren't kidding when you said he didn't believe in subtlety.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
emperors, I may be wrong, but I think ANYONE can add to the discussion date list.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Wild Child
Shaddack and Dracman.
Alright (cracks knuckles), the Wolf Creek tv show.
The first episode has the heroin, Eve Thorogood, and her family, going into the outback. Her kid brother Hoss is almost eaten by a crocodile. Mick arrives and saves Hoss by shooting and killing the croc. Mick falsely befriends the family, and stabs the father in the leg as they are talking, before slitting his throat. He than kills both the mother and Hoss. He shoots Eve into the water, but she survives. Eve is found and taken to the hospital. While at the hospital, she is questioned by a police officer named Sullivan. Sullivan connects her families death to a series of dissaperancs in the outback, and concludes it was done by the same man. After recovering, Eve steals the list of dissapparances from the station and goes after Mick. Since she doesn't know his name, and only has his face and car to go by, she decides to ask the families of the people who disseppared for leads. Her search takes up the majority of the series, and in one of the last episodes, she meets Ben from the first film, who has gone insane and now believes himself to be Jesus. During her search, Mick learns of her survival and comes after her. Along the way, Mick kills many people, and it's even implied that he rapes this one hippy yoga woman he meets on the road. Eventually, Sullivan (who had been helping Eve) is kidnapped by Mick during a failed attempt to arrest him. Mick holds Sullivan hostage at his old family home from youth, and tortures him offscreen. By the time Eve gets to him, he is close to death. Mick also leaves Eve a scrapbook detailing the death of his sister, which leads to a series of flashbacks that reenact scenes from the first book. When Eve reaches Mick, he realizes that she is in love with Sullivan, and gives her the choice of either killing Sullivan herself in a Mercy Killing, or being Forced to Watch as Mick slowly finishes off Sullivan. Eve tries to stab Mick, but he twists her arm around and makes her stab Sullivan, taunting her by jokingly saying that she's "not bad" at killing. Mick takes out his knife and slowly starts cutting Eve, intending to kill her slowly. Eve manages to get away, and gains the upper hand, impaling Mick to a wall in the kitchen of his old home with four poles that she stabs through his body. Mick seems to die, and Eve lights the house on fire. Eve gets outside and passes out. In the morning, Eve investigates the charred remains of the burnt down house, and finds that Micks "corpse" is missing; the four poles are still stuck to the wall where she impaled him, but Mick himself is no longer there (how the fuck did he get down without removing them from the wall?). Nevertheless, for some reason, she still seems to believe that she has avenged her family, and she drives off. After the credits, Micks car can be seen passing by on a road, further cementing his survival.
For new deeds, he has the killing of a family, including a young boy, numerous other murders, and the act of making the heroin stab and kill her Love Interest.
Now, the last episode features flashbacks to his youth, and shows the death of his sister from the first book. I am not entirely sure that this disqualifies him. When Eve mentions his sister to him and theorizes that she's the reason that he is a killer, he just goes "Oh?" When he mentions his sister, he states that he knows what it's like to watch someone you love die, but this could just be referring to the love he had for her when he was a boy and she was alive. After he finishes the story, he has a scrunched up face, I'm not sure what that was supposed to entail, but it only lasts a couple seconds at most, and he than smiles and says that he was the only one to see her die. He could still love his sister, but it's not really made clear. He never cries while remembering her or anything.
edited 26th May '16 12:41:19 PM by bobg
jjj
Messenger from another dimension.
That is a little tough. To be honest, while I will have no problem with him qualifying, I will tentatively down vote him to be safe. Loving someone will always disqualify you. Remember why Assassins Creed Jack the Ripper was disqualified? For loving his mother in the past.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Since the last episode establishes the books as canon, this means that if he doesn't count for the series, he does not count for the books or films either. If we do end up cutting him, it will be sad, considering all the evil shit he's done over the course of the films, books, and show (rape, torture, child murder, making someone eat their own guts, wearing someones skin, framing someone for his crimes, forcing someone to kill their own love interest and then taunting them about it).
jjj
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Ah yes, one of those 99.9% monsters who SHOULD count, but don't. I think the books were canon previously anyway, especially since Greg McLean did them.
edited 26th May '16 1:17:29 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Jasper? Are people really trying to propose? Jasper isn't any more heinous than Lapis or Peridot were pre-redemption so she's far from this trope. So far the closest is Yellow Diamond but we have to wait until her arc is over to see if she counts.
Messenger from another dimension.
Yes it is a shame but as long as we have Jeff Gilday who is even worse from Mick Taylor in my eyes, I will get over it.
edited 26th May '16 1:26:20 PM by emperors
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
The last episode can be watched here [1].
The flashback scenes and scenes where his sister is discussed are at the 10, 30, and 35 minute marks, if anyone wants to judge.
jjj
Let's wait till Wolf Creek 3 to judge definitively.
Messenger from another dimension.
I doubt that there will be Wolf Creek 3.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Edit: misread post.
to both Dean Koontz villains. Having not seen Wolf Creek, I'm going to ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Mick - in addition to the potential love issue, a few of his more heinous acts seem to fall in the realm of implication.
edited 26th May '16 1:40:30 PM by LargoQuagmire
Is Mick Taylor some kind of Villain Sue?
Wolf creek 3 has been announced.
Even if some of his actions are implication, the vast, vast majority of the worst is onscreen.
I'm not seeing much disqualifying Mick. Will his new crimes be added to the main writeup, or in a separate one?
@Lighty: Any word when Wolf Creek 3 is being released?
Seems like it. As if surviving impalement in four places isnit enough, bear in mind that the series takes place in modern day (going by the dates of some of the dissaparnces mentioned), and the first film took place 30-31 years after the second books ending. He should be around 65 by the time of the series. Can you imagine a 65 year old man surviving this kind of stuff? To be fare, the second book had ghosts telling him that killing people in a certain cave would give him superhuman strength and speed (though he could have just been hallucinating), and the tv series shows that he works out a lot. Still though.
edited 26th May '16 2:24:45 PM by bobg
jjj
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Anything to add for Mick's entry?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Him killing Eve's family, several more murders, torturing her love interest, and making her stab and kill her love interest. Assuming he's not disqualified.
edited 26th May '16 3:53:15 PM by bobg
jjj
to Shaddack and Dracman.
to Thomas Shaddack and Bryan Dracman.
Thanks to whoever put my name down next to Legends and Flash on the discussion date page.
It is better to write for yourself and have no public than to write for the public and have no self.
Lizzid people!
Shaddack and Dracman.
edited 26th May '16 6:04:53 PM by AustinDR
@Koontz: I should read False Memory again... considering how much its villain was entry-pimped a while back, I'm surprised he hasn't been brought up (abstaining on these two since I'll probably want to read them as well).
There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.