The Law Enforcement Officer Thread

CIA does have some law enforcement capability. They just aren't very open over where that deferment happens.

I was just curious because it shows what kind of approach the government is taking with this case.

Again, FBI while sharing information and investigations are commonplace, they rarely deal with international cases except for just focusing on the American part. CIA has more freedom in both investigation and how should I put it, acquisition possibly in international incidents.

Like I said, the FBI has a better reputation and better track record of cooperation with international agencies, so it would be both the reasonable and more accommodating option.

Knoxville cop immediately fired after photos show him choking an unruly student after a college house party gets out of hand

I don't know if you watch The Young Turks, but they talked about the incident yesterday:

Cant watch videos atm, what do they mention?

Cenk disseminated the truth from the fiction in the official report based on the video of the shooting, and he concludes that of course no one will be prosecuted, but "Goddammit, show some restraint!" This most recent incident shows a disturbing tendency to shoot first, ask questions never. But I recommend watching it when you're able.

I never knew this, I always thought it was purely an intelligence agency. Care to share some more on this?

No, strictly speaking, the CIA does not operate in any law enforcement capacity. EDIT: For the most part, they don't. That's the FBI's role. Any viable intelligence they gather that can lead to criminal proceedings is transmitted to other federal entities such as the National Security Council, the FBI and the State Department. The CIA does recruit people with law enforcement experience (often as security guards and detainment personnel), but their judicial reach is limited to gathering information and bringing that information to policy makers and advisers to the executive branch and the Department of Defense. Sure, there are things such as extraordinary rendition and national security threat profiling, but they aren't really slapping people in handcuffs and booking them the way INS, the DEA, the ATF or the FBI do.

EDIT: Here's something more specific to CIA acting as police officers

edited 22nd Aug '14 11:43:08 AM by Aprilla

What the CIA does on paper and what they do in the field is very different.

If you were to compare them to civilian law enforcement they would be close to Internal Affairs and Detectives. They can grab people, hold them, interrogate them, etc. They're supposed to always work with someone else, but I'm not going to sit here and assume that they do.

Well, yeah. That's where situations like indefinite detainment and enhanced interrogation come into play. But to paraphrase a recruiter with whom I spoke, you're going to spend a big chunk of your time in front of a computer listening to phone conversations, passing on encrypted data, speaking with diplomats in the State Department, feeding intel to JSOC, monitoring unsecured channels by means of SIGINT and advising your supervisors on your findings.

I'd say if any organization has a prominent hybridized law enforcement and intelligence gathering ability next to the FBI, it's the Secret Service.

That's part of the little joke about them, now isn't it? We don't have a thread for discussions about intelligence agencies, but while the CIA is officially meant to gather information for the sake of national security with a minimal footprint, several authors (some of whom formerly working for the agency) have noted that the CIA's more marked militarization should have been a point of concern in the War On Terror and how it can potentially interfere with foreign and domestic law enforcement. This relates to when Barkey warned about the differences in kill chains used by the CIA versus the military.

They may "arrest" you (using this term VERY loosely here), but as for being processed through a court of law...that's a bit sketchy, and I'd dare say that legal vagueness is an uncomfortable necessity in national security. Make of that what you will.

edited 22nd Aug '14 2:52:36 PM by Aprilla

Of course, they're the original counterfeit hunters and hand of the treasury. But the Secret Service doesn't have international jurisdiction like the CIA does. That's not their job.

The Secret Service does send many agents overseas with both the president himself and other policy makers, so you could say that while they're technically outside of their jurisdiction, they can act on behalf of US law while on foreign soil since protecting national security assets (the president any advisors of critical importance) is what they're meant to do, legally speaking.

The way one recruiter put it, it's a shaky stipulation because, like diplomatic security personnel working at US embassies, they have to be careful how they operate with aggression or investigative intent because of the geo-judicial grey areas that vary from country to country. This is similar to the problems that arose in Beirut and Benghazi, but that's another topic entirely.

What did you get yourself into this time, Polar Bear?◊ (And yes, I know it's actually a Greenpeace protester, but it's still a funny coincidence.)

edited 22nd Aug '14 12:42:24 PM by Aprilla

Yes but so can the military, the CIA don't arrest people, they detain people, the same way the military does.

Okay I've got to ask, how did you end up have an in-depth conversation with a CIA recruiter?

edited 22nd Aug '14 2:11:51 PM by SilasW

Ask for one.

Heh, how long as Guantanamo been open?

The CIA technically isn't supposed to do a lot of things. Doesn't stop them from doing it.

Ferguson might get a lot more "interesting" real quick. Various members of the KKK are heading to Ferguson and there are elements of the New Black Panthers present already.

Who do you ask for stuff like that? I guess I'm just thinking in comparison to MI 6, whose HQ has a Wikipedia page about it (and appeared in Bond) but if you went there and asked they'd insist they were just an office building for the foreign office.

And sure the CIA does things it's not meant to, but I'd like some evidence of them doing such things before I go along with the idea.

https://www.cia.gov/contact-cia

We've had plenty of reports of them doing it before all over the place. If they haven't stopped in the past 25 years or more, why stop now?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Intelligence_Agency#Controversies

There are personnel recruitment representatives you can speak with at college job fairs, in online chat rooms, via snail mail, at police seminars and the like. Of course, like military recruiters, they're not going to tell you the more arduous tasks and qualifications associated with these jobs. I have a bundle of family members who work in federal law enforcement and other agencies related to security, so it's somewhat easier to get information on hiring, interviews and what the different agencies need right now. I don't think any of the people I spoke with are secretly looking for a Jason Bourne or anything like that. I also don't think they'll tell me or anyone else something you couldn't find out on your own through some hard research. They want a lot of accounting and finance majors due to the prevalence of white-collar crimes, and some agencies even seek people through corporate networks.

I obviously don't know from first-hand experience, but I've always had the idea that the CIA and similar organizations are more candid about their activities than the general public realizes. It's just that they won't divulge how and why they perform certain activities.

A lot of the information on domestic and foreign terror suspects comes form open-source publically gathered intelligence (e.g. striking up a conversation with the local goat herder about that funny looking compound in the outskirts of town or asking the local kids playing in the street about the drop-off routes used by a major drug cartel). Something I've stressed before is that the dispersal of public intelligence was largely how we apprehended suspects such as Timothy Mc Veigh and the Beltway sniper.

From what attempts I've made in the past, it doesn't seem too hard to ask around for a recruiting agent. They're often more than happy to send you a packet with training and degree requirements, language aptitude score demands, essays to be completed and general preparation on the recruitment process. Your actual job description may vary once they hire you, but I don't think they swoop in the darkness of the night to covertly ask you for your resume. Not saying anyone here was assuming that.

edited 22nd Aug '14 2:48:15 PM by Aprilla

Man the CIA are no fun at all, I like how we Brits do it, MI 6 (or MI 5) approach you at Uni with a discreet tap on the shoulder, non of this setting up stalls at jobs fairs malarkey. (Though all our intelligence agencies do now have websites where you can apply).

In the UK you're not allowed to tell anyone if you've applied to work for one of the intelligence agencies unless it's after the fact and they've rejected you.

Thanks for the sources, that does make more sense now.

edited 22nd Aug '14 3:13:11 PM by SilasW

Well, I don't think the CIA is that direct. Like I've suggested before, they probably hire their people via a discreet liaison like a study abroad college internship or through some government work the candidate has done or currently is doing. I suspect many people are approached before the receive their DD 214 from the military or while they're finishing up their political science degree in Germany or something like that. I don't think they have you play a scavenger hunt to find out if and when they're hiring, but they're not going to shout it from the rooftops either. It's probably not incredibly different from what your agency does in the UK.

And to clarify, I never met a CIA recruiter at a job fair. There is enough mingling among the agencies that you can probably ask an FBI or ATF recruiter who can at least give you an idea of where to sign up and what you should expect if the CIA is what you're looking for. The law enforcement side of job fairs for me was Secret Services, FBI, DEA, etc. But yes, you can contact them and they will respond at least with a set of instructions on getting your college transcript, criminal background, any medical problems you have and whatnot.

edited 22nd Aug '14 3:25:49 PM by Aprilla

I just ran into this breaking on AR-15.com regarding the record of Michael Brown in the Ferguson shooting. He does not appear to be quite the innocent that the media had been making him out to be. This is just the list of charges that have been able to be gotten at so far and it is rumored he has a worse charge than any of these as a younger juvenile that foia is trying to uncover.

Again, this does not speak to whether the officer at the time lawfully discharged his weapon in that particular incident, but it does show Mr. Brown had a propensity for going armed and assaulting others.

Michael Brown is reported to have a juvenile 2nd degree arrest. A reporter is suing to get his juvenile arrest record opened.

http://www.ironicsurrealism.com/2014/08/19/report-mike-brown-had-juvenile-arrest-record-involving-2nd-degree-murder/

Description: Burglary – 1st Degree { Felony B RS Mo: 569.160 } Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 1401000 OCN: AJ 006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD Next Charge/Judgment Description: Armed Criminal Action { Felony Unclassified RS Mo: 571.015 } Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 3101000 OCN: AJ 006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD Next Charge/Judgment Description: Assault 1st Degree – Serious Physical Injury { Felony A RS Mo: 565.050 } Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 1301100 OCN: AJ 006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD Next Charge/Judgment Description: Armed Criminal Action { Felony Unclassified RS Mo: 571.015 } Date: 11/02/2013 Code: 3101000 OCN: AJ 006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD

edited 23rd Aug '14 10:05:50 AM by RainbowMatt

Arrest record is one thing what about convictions?

Do we have any proof of that?

And furthermore, why does it matter? Regardless of his past he was still shot 6 times while unarmed.

And? What's that got to do with the price of eggs?

edited 23rd Aug '14 10:11:09 AM by Cyran

As I said, it does not speak to what happened that day, and I doubt he had gone to trial for those other charges yet as they were not a year ago. All it shows is that he has in the recent past been a person who has used violence and done so while armed. Not making any other judgments on anything.

Yeah arrest record proves nothing unless there's convictions to back it up, especially with the local P Ds track record. Also Ironic Surealism doesn't exactly look like an unbiased source to me.

No it doesn't. It shows that one questionable website is claiming that he was arrest by a police department with a very questionable record, it doesn't show us anything about what he's actually done in the past.

edited 23rd Aug '14 10:13:47 AM by SilasW