The Law Enforcement Officer Thread

You can fortify and entrench to your hearts content so long as you keep to building codes and regs. (Don't bust city water mains etc.)

Ooh. Neat.

EDIT: Whoops, derp-posting.

I love this comment, apparently by another police officer:

edited 6th Jan '14 1:11:42 PM by dRoy

This is a cop who had a tough job.

Is this infographic legit?

It's legit, and while I highly encourage people to know their rights, I don't like the tone of the graphic. It seems vaguely written from the usual standpoint of a pothead who is trying to find ways to be as obnoxious and resistant as he can possibly be to the police, even if he is technically doing something illegal.

Don't drive around with weed in your car, don't drive around drunk, and you shouldn't really have anything of interest for them to find.

I mean shit, I get pulled over too. I was just on my way up to LA last week at night and got pulled over by Malibu PD. They gave me a pretty BS excuse for their probable cause that I'm pretty sure was a lie, but they got me out of the car, searched me, and had me do a field sobriety test(I was stone cold sober). I was pretty fucking annoyed, but I just kept it respectful and professional, and they sent me on my way. Even managed to unsee the fact that I had a brake light out and my license plate lights out, which they could have given me fix-it tickets for.

Point is, don't do drugs and don't drink and drive, and there is virtually nothing you can get into trouble with the cops for besides driving like an asshole or something innocent like a tail-light. I'm pro-legalisation, but while it's still illegal the potheads and their self-righteous victim complex bullshit is still the wrong fucking attitude.

edited 11th Jan '14 5:21:29 PM by Barkey

Well, it may be more useful for, say, a black man who has to deal with the Oakland PD.

There is no 'meeting people halfway' when it comes to civil rights.

One of the things in the info graphic I found interesting was the profiling aspect of having police oriented bumper stickers. I would hope that is a positive profiling aspect, not a negative one.

Yeah, if you're the kind of person who doesn't have to fear the police deciding to stitch you up than I'd say the graph is only needed if you feel like being an ass or want to get away with doing something illegal. However if you're a demographic that has good reason to fear being mistreated by the police despite doing nothing wrong, then I can see the use of the graph.

Actually there is. When it comes to civil rights you have two parties; the person in authority and the taxpaying citizen whom said person has authority over. Here's the breakdown;

• It is the responsibility of the citizen to know their rights and how to assert those rights to an authority figure politely.
• It is the responsibility of the authority figure to recognize a citizen's rights and respect them.

Yes, police officers will attempt to take advantage of ignorance on the part of the citizen. This is part of the way they get their job done without violence or undue effort. Citizens have rights, but it is our responsibility to know how they work and exercise them properly.

If a citizen knows their rights and displays this knowledge in a polite, palatable fashion the authority figure will stop bothering them in nearly all cases - even cases where the authority figure was abusing their power to harass someone they felt was lesser (a person of color, for example). Why? Because there is only so much gray area an authority can abuse for their own benefit, and if the target does not rise to this abuse the only choice for the authority figure has is to...

• A: let the person go.
• B: escalate the abuse - which carries the risk of taking it out of the "gray area" and into legitimate rule-breaking. Any LEO reading this will likely agree with me that this is not something most cops will do.

So yes; civil rights come with civil responsibilities, and if you the citizen remember both you'll do better when dealing with law enforcement.

@Drunk: I think I know why you think it's a good idea not to piss off cops

^^

This. Being an asshole to cops is never productive, pretty much in any scenario, guilty or innocent.

If you're nervous about a search because you've got a dead hooker and a bong in your trunk, it's in your best interest to be nice.

If you just got a speeding ticket or you have a tail light out, it's also in your best interest to be nice.

About the only thing you get out of being a dickhead to a cop is perhaps a short lived bit of cathartic satisfaction because you don't like cops, or are an asshole. Then you also risk the chance of the cop finding a legal way to mess with you back, which they will no longer hesitate to do, since you're an asshole. Or the ones who are more corrupt and think they can get away with it might break your jaw or manufacture some sort of probable cause to justify their behavior.

There is absolutely no benefit to being a dick, and no downside to being respectful and friendly.

But I swear to god, if you ever pull that "I'm only going to talk to you through my slightly cracked driver-side window" stunt, you deserve to get an ASP strike to the fucking jaw, that is the most obnoxious thing you can ever do during a traffic stop. If you refuse to put your window all the way down when I ask nicely, I pretty much spend the rest of the stop trying to find any possible way to waste your time and cost you money or license points. Cracked windows pretty much summon the full anger and vengeance of the traffic cop gods.

edited 12th Jan '14 12:04:18 PM by Barkey

In my experience, being nice to a cop always pays off because you need someone to have your back. Don't lie, don't exaggerate, take responsibility if there is any to take and you will always work out fine.

Very rarely is a cop "out to get you" and the ones that do follow that are obvious and dig their own graves. (You can file harassment complaints on officers easy.)

But if you work with them, they'll most often work with you no problem.

One, it depends on who and where you are, sadly. Expecting police officers to deal with you in good faith should be the norm but isn't, there are some shitty departments out there sadly and it's not smart to trust them.

Two, it's possible to be charming and polite and sweetness and light while asking, "Thank you Officer, now am I free to go?"

Out of curiosity, why is the cracked window a Berserk Button for LE Os? Does it simply make communication needlessly difficult, or is this one of those psychological "putting a barrier between people" things like they warn us about in public speaking classes?

edited 12th Jan '14 8:00:43 PM by AFP

In Arkansas, it is illegal to make the officer go to the driver's side. They all go to the passenger side and you have to pull over on the right side of the road.

We've had too many officers be hit by cars.

That is an entirely valid and practical reason for a law.

We actually got a new law in Quebec recently that forces people to change lane when an emergency vehicle is stopped somewhere and has the light flashing. Beat me as to whether it's working, tho, AFAIK it does work. (Working as in, "the law is respected and the LE Os are safer")

We still got officers addressing people from the driver side in any case.

edited 12th Jan '14 8:41:12 PM by QuestionMarc

I'd generally say: be polite to cops, be nice if you can, but do know your rights. Do not give permission to search things that they don't have a right to search without your permission. Don't stop them if they go ahead anyway, but politely inform them that you don't give permission for the search.

And don't do things that make a cop feel unsafe. While I think that "officer safety" is way too often trotted out as justification for stuff that shouldn't be, traffic stops for instance ARE dangerous for a police officer.

I'd agree with Morven. However, citizens need to be prepared for cops who will use social engineering to push/needle/trick/convince them into surrendering their rights. I've had just about every LEO I've dealt with do this to one degree or another. Granted, it is one of the ways they get their job done without violence or undue effort as I said, so I'm prepared to let them do it - to a point.

But I've dealt with some cops who got real threatening because I didn't want to let them, say, search the trunk of my car just "cause they felt like it", and I don't think I'm alone in not liking that.

*nods noncommittally*

And a lot of the problem with that is that almost anyone can be found to have violated some law or other if their possessions and life are searched enough.

@Morven: well, yeah. That right there is a pragmatic reason why every citizen needs to A: know their rights and B: know how to politely assert them to an officer. We imperfect citizens tend to stay out of trouble when we do that.

Plus there is the general principle of protecting your civil liberties you know? Even if you have nothing to hide it doesn't mean you should have to prove yourself without cause.

edited 14th Jan '14 2:27:01 AM by joeyjojo

That's the person's fault though. I know this is a foreign concept to some but you CAN follow the law.