Dragon Age

Yeah, except we have written records from laborers who flat out say "Eh, we've all questioned the Qun, but damn those Tal Vashoth are crazy, no complaints here thanks!" So long as you accept that you're supposed to be a baker and whatnot they're probably pretty much okay with you. People who don't do their jobs are presumably given to be reeducated, not to have their minds destroyed. That's not good, but it's not the same thing at all. Qamek is for people who outright refuse any role. I imagine they're pretty blunt about "Do what we tell you, or you're effectively dead thanks to yummy happy qamek candy."

Yeah, well, Isabela is a bitch. But yes, those are the circumstances under which qamek is probably used. How many random villagers won't even pretend to play along? I doubt the number is that high. And no, they probably weren't forced into it given that they refused to convert back and got butchered by their supernice Chantry as a result. Doesn't Rivain still have a sizable Qunari population?

The Qunari are dicks, but so are their opponents. Qunari used forced labor and mind breaking drugs, Chantry calls crusades for petty reasons and mass murders civilians.

Isabella stole an important cultural relic in addition to being a freedom-loving pirate who would refuse to submit to pretty much anything purely on principle. She's not a normal example of someone captured by the Qunari, either in how the captive would act or the captors.

How aren't we certain that the Tamassrans have no method of finding out if the "convert" they're keeping an eye on isn't just doing it to avoid being killed or subjected to the qamek? The Tamassrans handle the roles of each and every member of the Qun, it'd be foolish to think that humans, elves or dwarves could slip by them and pretend to part of the Qun. And re-education wears down on the minds and will of a person, and it could either change them, or kill them.

Why can't we just all be optimistic and believe that a softened Leli's College of Enchanters will bring a better future for the mages in general? One of the main reasons mages are so feared is because the Chantry itself pretty much preaches that if you're a mage, you're cursed and and to be feared. Leli's epilogue states that the College manages to bring about better acceptance towards mages throughout Thedas once the Circles are disbanded.

Isabela may not be a paragon of morality but it is not fair to brainwash her nor to brainwash any who boldly oppose the Qunari. Nor is it fair to force those who are not bold enough to oppose to live out their lives under a totalitarian regime that would brainwash or kill them for straying. If you're only justification for the qamek is "Well the Qunari probably TELL people they'll be brainwashed before brainwashing them so it's alright." That means they're just threatening converts into submission and how is THAT any better? The Qun does not suddenly become alright because it's prisoners are too afraid for their lives to really stand against it. Brainwashing does not suddenly become alright because you give people a warning about it beforehand.

Only the Chantry mass murder civilians? What do you call the Qunari incident in Kirkwall if not mass murder of civilians? Even setting aside that the Qunari are instructed to kill Tal-Vashoth on sight so they mass murder civilians for not converting as well. And what I find most ironic is that you condemn the Chantry for murder yet describe being given qamek as "effectively being dead." Which means the Qunari murder as surely as the Chantry does. And the Qunari crusade as well - what do you think the Qunari wars were ABOUT? It was an invasion with the sole and explicit purpose of converting Thedas to the Qun. Worse than that they're preparing to crusade again. Sten tells you as much.

So yeah the Chantry crusades and murders people. The Qunari crusade and murder people too ON TOP OF the forced labor and mind-breaking drugs. The Chantry isn't perfect by any means but they are FAR better than the Qun.

We know that the qamek is given commonly enough for Fenris to know about it. We know that it's given to all bas mages no matter what. The wiki says that the only thing one has to do to get qamek is refuse to convert. By no indication is it some rare and special punishment only given to those who have committed crimes as great as Isabela's.

edited 25th Apr '15 6:53:41 PM by Pyrogenic

^^ I don't think they'd care. So long as they're at least pretending to follow the rules and fulfill their role the Qunari probably assume that the converts will realize how super great the Qun is. And honestly, they seem to be right.

I'm sure Leliana's position will make things better for a lot of mages. It's everyone else that I'm worried about.

^ It's funny, but I don't remember saying the Qunari were great guys. I was noting that their religious rivals commit atrocities as well. I'm pretty sure I can condemn a serial killer and a rapist. The Chantry also spreads the Chant of Light by the sword. They intend to see it spread to all four corners of the world because otherwise the Maker won't forgive them.

Qamek is for people that refuse to convert no matter what, even after all other attempts have been made to bring them to the Qun. I've no doubt that it's used as a threat, so it makes sense that people would know about it. It's noted that most people actually do convert because the common man doesn't actually care that much about what religion he follows in Thedas. Only the church leaders and other powerful figures are that concerned about theological differences.

edited 25th Apr '15 6:59:30 PM by Arha

Nor do I recall saying the Chantry is perfect. As a matter of fact I believed I explicitly acknowledged that it has many faults and flaws. Twice.

And as pointed out the Qun is not just a religion it's a way of life. You can't just pay lip service to it. It's not taking the time every Sunday morning to get preached at by some withered Chantry bird. It controls what you'll spend your life doing and how you'll do it to point where Sten can't even reconcile a woman being a fighter because the Qun would simply never allow for such a thing.

edited 25th Apr '15 7:24:38 PM by Pyrogenic

Which is another point for weird retcons, since Iron Bull clearly states that were Cassandra to be under the Qun, she'd most likely still be in the Ariqun (soldier/warrior), and be considered a male.

Can we all just agree that Thedas is a Crapsack World of absolute craptastic-ness? I mean, really, this is one of the fantasy worlds where I'd actually totally hate to be stuck in.

Actually Bull said that people like Cassandra and Cullen would likely either die fighting or be killed for being too dangerous to live.

Hm... my bad, I forgot that he doesn't mention Cassandra when he talks about the Aqun-Athlok. Though, Bull does say this little bit:

->Iron Bull: Put some horns on you, you make a pretty good Qunari.
Cassandra: I'm not certain that's a compliment.

So I'm assuming Bull, in one way or another, is saying that Cassandra would probably make a good Aqun-Athlok.

edited 25th Apr '15 9:27:47 PM by ITNW1989

I took it to mean that if a woman is a good enough fighter she can remain a warrior but has to perform all the functions a guy would and would be seen as male. Though I'm not sure what that would entail.

Bull does say the Qunari don't let women fight though so it's got to be more than a just a woman with a sword.

I guess that's the thing about the Aqun-Athlok, though. They aren't female. Transgenderism in Thedas, I believe. Not sure what he meant by Cassandra being a good Qunari in that case, though, if we were talking about the Aqun-Athlok being transgender Qunari.

I actually think a Game of Thrones and Dragon Age mash up would be pretty interesting. And by interesting I mean some of the most dark and cynical stuff ever with some levity

Oh Maker, White Walkers AND a Blight? All we'd need are Reapers and we'd have a total apocalypse here.

I've always wanted a Dragon Age AU for Game of Thrones.

Mage-Child Bran, Jon Snow a Grey Warden, Jamie a Templar.

It would be fun.

And Daenerys the...um...well, she can probably be exactly the same. Maybe make her a mage I guess but really she already has the whole "Dragon Age" thing down.

Cersei should be a mage too just so she could make Jowan look competent. I can only imagine how royally she would fuck up absolutely everything.

Mage Cersei and Templar Jaime should be something to see. Though I don't think Tywin would be the type to let Cersei be taken away. More likely she would hide her powers from society.

Tyrion is still a dwarf but a human one

Melisandre and her religion gets amalgized with the Qun for even more fuckery. That or they're engaged in an even bloodier religious war. Likewise imagine a war between the White Walkers and the Darkspawn

edited 25th Apr '15 11:30:03 PM by Mr.Didact

Well, Dark Spawn are vaguely White Walker-ish in terms of how they relate to the setting (Evil Force of Nature Zombies that disappear for centuries at a time which turn into legend the longer time passes on) and the Men of the Knight's Watch are vaguely Grey Warden-ish (Group of Warriors who stand to watch against the zombies of legend and let all into their ranks; mostly thieves and those put to their death).

There are a lot of similar traits between the two. Just, the look of them are VASTLY different.

I'd personally just call them the Darkwalkers and combine their whole blighted plague thing with winter on top of it. Maybe call the opposing force the Grey Watch or the Night Wardens

Wardens of the Night sounds really cool...

EDIT:

So, Question,

I was listening to the DA Podcast and it was mentioned 'Only way to kill an Archedmon is through Wardens'. Well, only known way...' and I thought...

Ok, an archdemon just jumps to the nearest Darkspawn when killed and reforms themselves... WTF would happen if there are no more Darkspawn? I know that that's basically impossible because there's so many Darkspawn PERIOD, but what would happen? Would it just die?

Also, wtf would happen if it jumped into a Broodmother. Like... Wow, most useless form for an Archdemon.

edited 26th Apr '15 4:24:48 AM by InkDagger

It depends on whether ghouls have souls. If they do, then the Archdemon would be destroyed if it tried possessing a broodmother, just like it would if it tried possessing a Warden.

If ghouls don't have souls, then the possession would be successful and the Archdemon would just transform the broodmother into a new draconic body.

Does it grow a new Dragon Body? I don't remember if that was ever stated or not. I always kind of assumed, but I don't remember. It'd be interesting if the Dragon form was a One Time Deal for when an Old God is first corrupted and, if it jumped bodies to a different Darkspawn, it would be stuck in that form.

That'd be interesting. If we didn't know otherwise at this point, it'd be a great plot twist.

Given how it's mentioned that Dumat kept coming back in the first blight rather than "Dumat died earlier on and some mysteriously intelligent Darkspawn took command immediately" I'd say that Archdemons turn back into dragons with time after possessing a Darkspawn (I just can't see them going from Hurlock to Archdemon instantly).

edited 26th Apr '15 6:38:15 AM by TheCuriousFan

Maybe they can simply shapeshift into dragon form, being gods and all.

edited 26th Apr '15 6:55:56 AM by Antiteilchen

It'd be an interesting plot twist but it'd make for a bizarre final boss.

Imagine it: your party's all decked out in their best armor and weapons. They've fought through waves and waves of darkspawn. They've nearly died dozens of time on this final push alone. And when they finally make it finally reach the end of the horde and throw open the doors to slay their greatest enemy...

and it's just some random genlock.

edited 26th Apr '15 12:49:30 PM by Pyrogenic

Well, I was more thinking in that you've killed the Archdemon and everyone thinks its dead but it just jumped into a Glenlock and escaped and everyone's wondering why the Blight hasn't ended. They kill the Glenlock and it jumps into an Ogre or something who can be the final boss and they figure out how to kill it or something.

edited 26th Apr '15 3:10:32 PM by InkDagger