I will point out that nerds have been calling adaptions and sequels "the worst ever" for a long time. That is Comic Book Guy's catchphrase. It is only politics which have given some people a way to delegitimatize criticism, which is a new development.
I think it is exaggerated how much a small vocal group can ruin the reputation of a good show. Star Wars is a pretty well known franchise, a lot of people who aren't chronically online might watch it, totally unaware of any controversy and just lose interest.
Edited by ry4n on Mar 25th 2024 at 12:02:54 PM
BLADE Pathfinders
Ah, must be a day that ends with a Y and another piece of Star Wars media past Episode IV.
Realistically, it's too early to even say what this will do to the fanbase, and claiming that Star Wars is dead/will be dead/is being killed by X got old in the mid-2000's when it got killed at least 16 times
Edited by jdeo1997 on Apr 26th 2024 at 9:19:08 AM
Silence is golden, noise is platinum. Keelah se'lai
The Kenobi show had some fans for bringing back McGregor and Christiansen, but it wasn't a unifying moment like the first few seasons of The Mandalorian. Given the ties with the major characters the response being "just alright" was not encouraging.
Do you not know that in the service one must always choose the lesser of two weevils!
A certain section of Star Wars fans started complaining about it from the very first episode and basically never stopped, resulting in it gaining a fairly bad reputation despite overall being just a regular old show.
I... think that's an unfair take on Kenobi's absolutely middling reception. Like, yes. It was absolutely mired in the racist Vocal Minority fandom-menace that's mad at everything, but elements of it were quite fairly lambasted from all across the spectrum.
Like, a lot of fans really did try to like and just weren't given much to actually like. Or much to hate. It's kinda more impressive that they managed to churn out such middling fare with what they were given.
It did give a few great moments (Darth's fight with Obi-Wan was great, and I personally really liked Reva and how most of her story arc wentnote . Baby Leia was something I never knew I wanted until I got it) but an equal number of absolutely memeably terrible ones (the Rebels-level sliding scale of Stormtrooper threat where three stormtroopers are a threat but half a dozen aren't and as a direct correlation the execution of the infiltration of the castle... then there's the action scene failures like the forest chase or Obi-Wan needing to shoot a gate he could just go around).
Interestingly and more directly on topic, one of the things I find an interesting comparison is that I thought it was kinda silly how obsessed the fandom and show was with Luke not seeing a lightsaber in action to keep canon. Given the fans' reaction to seeing red blades in this trailer, I guess that was the right move to be so concerned with that.
Edited by Larkmarn on Mar 25th 2024 at 11:35:50 AM
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
I've seen at least one person negativly comment on the line about "its not about good or bad but power" for sounding Postmodern.
It was pretty whiney complaint so I didn't give it anny heed, but it does make me wonder if the character will be validated or not, they are murdering people after all, but recently tv has had a bit of an issue with how its Heroes and Villains come across in their effort to make the story "complex."
Those aren't the fans that are contributing to the show's bad reputation.
It can happen, but primarily in situations where media fails to reach the general audience otherwise - usually poor marketing, exposure, etc. That's what happened with Solo, where a combination of piss poor marketing and an overwhelming pre-release backlash from the fandom menace led to it being perceived by general audience as a movie made mostly for fans who didn't even like it (when it was just trying to be a lighthearted space western in the Star Wars universe), absolutely tanking its sales.
It can affect the tv shows too, because general audience Star Wars don't watch those as avidly as they do the films. Not to mention the phenomenon where once a show is over, the people badmouthing it campaign around doing it, until their point of view is the only perspective that remains about it.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 25th 2024 at 9:20:34 AM
"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
Not the Eye
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
We have no confrimation that character who says the line (I think Mae) is the killer. Leslie did talk about show bieng about instituations and power they hold, so it will be interesting to see where it goes.
They really... are though? Like, the fandom menace isn't changing anyone's mind. Casual SW fans talking about how Kenobi was a disappointment, a fact that keeps getting relevant again and again as we keep getting shows.
It became relevant again when Andor came out and it didn't do well because people were burned on Kenobi and BOBF despite being great.
It became relevant again when Ahsoka came out and was equally middling. Like, random non-SW Youtubers were talking about this, like Drew Gooden putting out a video getting 3 million views about this basically using Kenobi as a thesis statement.
And now we're having this conversation again.
I'm really finding dismissing the valid criticism Kenobi got from across the internet as irrelevant as kinda insane.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
So, let me get this straight. Kenobi was well-received because no one talks about except people who care about it, but they don't count because they're not the casual audience. Got it.
That's why I went and mentioned Drew Gooden, a medium-sized Youtuber that's pretty "normie" insofar as I don't think he's had any SW content on his page before or since and that video I mentioned largely about Kenobi came out late 2023. And why I mentioned Andor's demonstrably low engagement.
Edited by Larkmarn on Mar 25th 2024 at 1:16:58 PM
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Casual fans aren't. General audience reception to Kenobi was actually fairly positive. And then they moved on, because that's what casual audiences do.
The majority of continuing discourse regarding Kenobi - positive or negative - doesn't come from the general audience, it comes from more entrenched fans who are more deeply invested in the series and how it fits within the paradigm of the franchise.
The point of my last post is that the group of fans / criticisms you were talking and presumably are a part of wasn't the group I was referring to.
You aren't being dismissed. I wasn't even talking about you.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 25th 2024 at 9:57:45 AM
"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
It's weird, most of the negative discourse about Kenobi I've seen focuses on that one awkward chase scene and then extrapolates it to the entire show being like that
You get that a lot too. Like people claiming that one five minute scene with poor choreography in the very last episode of Ahsoka means that all the choreography in the entire series was terrible, despite it being something people were raving about in previous episodes.
Accentuate the Negative, basically.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 25th 2024 at 10:22:38 AM
"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
Owl House / Infinity Train / Inside Job Fan
Accentuate the Negative. AKA the standard Star Wars fan’s reaction to anything new.
The Owl House and Coyote Vs Acme are my Roman Empire.
I mean, maybe we should revive the Kenobi thread for this? But, just to participate, even after raising that point like a hypocrite, I think Kenobi suffered a lot from placement, coming right after Book of Boba Fett (which was...not widely loved and frankly didn't deserve to be) and the 3rd season of the Mandalorian, which was also not great, which meant it felt like it was digging itself out of a hole, a bit.
I think it was...fine. It didn't blow me away and after two years, the things which stick in my head are:
1) The final Vader-Obi-Wan fight: Generally awesome and so long as you headcanon it as, Obi-Wan, despite everything, still doesn't actually believe what he's saying about Anakin being dead and cannot bring himself to finish Anakin off, it doesn't mess with anything broader.
2) The laughable bad child chase scene: makes me laugh every time I think about it!
3) The escape from the Inquisition base with Leia stuffed under Obi-Wan's clothing like this was a cartoon: also makes me laugh.
4) The fake Jedi and the Path: Really, really interesting idea! Wish we'd focused on that!
Overall, I think it suffers from the same issue a lot of modern Star Wars starts to drift into, of making the universe feel small by tying everything back to the same tiny group of people. Like, the original Jedi who showed up, desperate for help, was a just fine call to adventure, it didn't have to be Leia getting kidnapped! Sure, you still need him to deny the call, but then the Path can help him escape and Obi-Wan is left with an investigation he can't let remain on Tattooine, or get close to Luke.
Edited by ECD on Mar 25th 2024 at 10:44:39 AM
We weren't talking about Kenobi specifically, just using it as an example of how the fanbase has been reacting to these live action tv shows.
"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
8 Which institutions? That is what is concerning because, historically speaking, the Jedi tend to be the most misunderstood group in the franchise.
Edited by Avenger09 on Mar 26th 2024 at 1:21:59 PM
Finally got around to watching the trailer. I really don't get the hate in the comment section, it seems fine to me.
I mean, I do get it, but a part of me still wants to give these people more credit.
Having Faun
I watched the trailer and it just felt... neutral. It didn't really show much and, from what I saw, this show could be any level of quality. It feels strange to have such a negative opinion on it already, other than general caution if you're not a fan of much Disney Star Wars, given that we know so little.
Edited by king15 on Mar 27th 2024 at 7:45:48 PM
There is just not much to really grab on to with the trailer. It's focused on premise and not the characters, the characters are what will really make-or-break the show and barring a Yoda appearance it should be all original.
Do you not know that in the service one must always choose the lesser of two weevils!
I'm not saying it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it just gets on my nerves (but is also kind of hilarious) that the first video that auto plays after the trailer is about how "Woke Disney is ruining Star Wars by having so many Girl Bosses" with a thumbnail of the antagonist from the trailer
That's why you shouldn't have autoplay active on YouTube. Ever.
The algorithm's just gonna slowly drag you down some far-right rabbit hole if you do.
Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
I think that a big problem with the Star Wars shows lack of success is that they are on Disney Plus and Disney Plus isn't that successful. Like who would join Disney Plus just for Andor.
I don't get the tendency here to delegitimatize the reactions of other fans. And if you think a comment is whiney, that is all your interpretation.
The idea that it's not about good or evil is postmodern. If you think that is a bad thing or a good thing, I leave to you.
I think I have an idea what the show will be about. Kill Bill meets Frozen. Sounds crazy at first, however it can make sense.
Kill Bill is a revenge kung fu film, Frozen is about someone being taught to fear their power till she learns to embrace it. So I imagine the killer is a force user not trained by the Jedi, who therefore kills jedi, because of their gatekeeping.
https://insidethemagic.net/2024/03/star-wars-the-acolyte-canceled-rumor-cj1/
The Acolyte will only run for one season. What surprises me is it was meant to go longer.
Edited by ry4n on Mar 28th 2024 at 8:50:30 AM
Inside The Magic’s source is a news site I’ve genuinely never heard of, and that site’s sources are literally “some guy” and a random twitter user.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 28th 2024 at 2:22:02 AM
"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
Owl House / Infinity Train / Inside Job Fan
You may wanna use humor mode. And I agree. I’d rather wait for news from an official source.
More lighthearted 
territory
So from what I understand this series is set 100 years before The Phantom Menace or 132 BBY. Going by the Plagueis novel/the old EU, that's...an interesting timeframe. Because in Legends that was after Tenebrous killed his master but before he took in Plagueis. So it's possible that the titular Acolyte was Tenebrous' original apprentice or that it's changed so Tenebrous and the Acolyte are rival apprentices, and this series will involve a mini-schism or something
I disagree with the notion that a series depicting something that we didn't already see within story is the same as a "canon break," seeing as that's... not really what that is.
If things don't seem to line up before the series even comes out, then the onus is on the series to explain why they do. It's only a canon break if, when everything is said and done, it still doesn't line up with the rest of the continuity.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 24th 2024 at 9:55:38 AM
"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.